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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone,

I just purchased a 92 Mustang 5.0 about a week ago. Took it to the shop just make sure it was running fine, everything was good, had recent tuneup with gaskets, water pump replaced, etc. About a week later the car started to idle rough and stalled with check engine light now on. Cranked her back up and surged, would continue to surge/idle rough and stall. Ran codes and got them in this order 67, 81, 85, 87, and 84. I had cleaned the IAC, was looking for a vacuum leak, and now looking at the EGR. Any idea what the codes are leaning me towards? I'm new to the mustangs so please try to dumb it down alittle with descriptions or where the parts are located. I like to work on cars and would like to tackle this myself before i have to head to the shop. Oh i was looking to replace the PCV but for the life of me i cannot locate it. I looked and felt all around the back up of the intake manifold and nothing. Am i not looking in the right direction or is it something im missing? May or may not be effecting anything but now that i cant locate it, im just deteremined lol. Any help would be great.

Alex.
 

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Definitely make sure all your vacuum lines are not leaking. Is the smog pump there or not? If not then make sure all the lines are capped. How old is the fuel filter, and the fuel pump. the filter is easy to get to it is under the car in front of the gas tank on the rail. I would replace it if you have no idea when it was last replaced.

The PCV valve. I had my car 7 years before actually finding it...lol. It is on the lower manifold on the back side of the motor between the firewall and upper intake. You can't see it you have to feel for it. there is a vacuum line connected to it and you will feel that it has a 90 degree elbow over the pcv valve. pull up on that and then wiggle the pcv valve out. Also if you bought a fram pcv valve it will have a plastic adapter on the top of the pcv valve, and you will have to pull that plastic adapter off the top...it takes quite a bit of force to get it off too (ask me how I know...I'll tell ya cause I ended up going back and arguing with the parts store with both of the pcv valves...and only one guy knew the solution...lol)

It could also be a improperly hooked up egr line (like the hose is in the wrong part of the vacuum tree.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hey thanks for responding. I actually bought a fuel filter when i got the pcv, oil/filter, and spark plugs. Was going to clean it up since i wasnt sure on when the last time they all were done. Not sure on the fuel pump tho, might be one of those if nothing else fixes it i might have to change lol. I pulled a hose from that area and was just about a quater size hole, no pcv or anything, just a hole that grease or oil couldnt really tell. I believe that line was the one that traces from the front of manifold, around to the driver side between the upper and lower, around back to the spot i thought the PCV would be. I'll keep looking and see if i can feel around it. There is a line that comes from that area that is clamped and screwed off. Looks like that would run under the intake/iac area and connect just under that area (the line is also cut and clamped at that point). As for the EGR, is that on the back, i mean if coming up from the intake on the backside. Better desription would be if looking at the IAC would it be on the opposite side? Thanks again for the help. Changing the fuel filter now.
 

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Hey thanks for responding. I actually bought a fuel filter when i got the pcv, oil/filter, and spark plugs. Was going to clean it up since i wasnt sure on when the last time they all were done. Not sure on the fuel pump tho, might be one of those if nothing else fixes it i might have to change lol. I pulled a hose from that area and was just about a quater size hole, no pcv or anything, just a hole that grease or oil couldnt really tell. I believe that line was the one that traces from the front of manifold, around to the driver side between the upper and lower, around back to the spot i thought the PCV would be. I'll keep looking and see if i can feel around it. There is a line that comes from that area that is clamped and screwed off. Looks like that would run under the intake/iac area and connect just under that area (the line is also cut and clamped at that point). As for the EGR, is that on the back, i mean if coming up from the intake on the backside. Better desription would be if looking at the IAC would it be on the opposite side? Thanks again for the help. Changing the fuel filter now.
OK I posted a pic for you of my convertible, its an 1988 mustang gt, but everything is pretty much the same except you have mass air and I got speed density, couldn't find a pic of my 1990 mustang or it would have the mass air on it like yours will. In the Pic the yellow is the egr location it is on the backside of the pipe, the cyan (light blue is the iac valve, and the magenta (pinkish) will be about where you should find the pcv valve...stright down, the green is where your smog pump will be (under the alternator, and you can't see it in this pic, but it is there). I posted the pics one with the writing and one without writing to aid you in the locations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wow thanks for the pictures, really helped. Thats the spot i thought the PCV was just no luck yet lol. Ill keep at. Just replaced the fuel filter, no changes. I'm going to play with the EGR in the morning, the wife starting to get enoyed since ive been messing with it all day. I'll post right away in the morning once i get back at it. Is there a way to check the fuel pump? Thanks again
 

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Wow thanks for the pictures, really helped. Thats the spot i thought the PCV was just no luck yet lol. Ill keep at. Just replaced the fuel filter, no changes. I'm going to play with the EGR in the morning, the wife starting to get enoyed since ive been messing with it all day. I'll post right away in the morning once i get back at it. Is there a way to check the fuel pump? Thanks again

there is a shrader valve back where that arrow is for the pcv valve (it should be close to the fuel regulator if I remember right (it will look like a valve stem for a tire but it will be metal and on a metal line this line will be the fuel rail. You can purchase a mechanical fuel gauge and attach it there (I'm not sure what the pressure is exactly, but I think it's around 35-40 PSI, I could be wrong though), I know you have to relieve the pressure in the fuel line to hook up the gauge
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ok update from the weekend. I replaced the fuel filter and no improvement. Took the EGR off and had alot of crud/build up in it. Sprayed and cleaned as best i could and replaced with no improvement either. I asked the guy at the shop and he suggested i push the EGR open when running. When i did this, the engine stay the same with ideling rough, but when i released it would clean up for a few seconds and i cant be 100% sure but i think the value moves open just a tad and the engine begins to run rough again. Im debating on whether i should buy a fuel pressure gauge as well as a vacuum gauge. At what point to i call it and just let a shop find out whats wrong lol? STill no luck with a PCV tho. If feeling around back there and i get my hand near the rail and underneath the intake manifold, am i in the right direction? Is there another way to test the EGR or do i need the vacuum line/gauge? Also tried the soapy water and carb clearner again on all the lines i could think of spraying to see if any lines were leaking. Might just have to let a shop look at it. Mani hate giving up tho lol. Should i just replace the EGR and the fuel pump with a wal 255? I figure if im going to pay 70-80 for someone to look at it, could just use that money and buy the EGR and then the fuel pump for 100 or so from summit and cover both. But what if neither fixes it, sigh then im out of ideas. Thanks for the help guys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Oh if i do decide on taking it in, anyone know any good shops in san antonio near lackland? New here so not to familiar with the place yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok was messing with the EGR but the car wont start at all now. A guy at the shop said to try to block the EGR area with a plate, almost eliminating the source of the problem if there was one with it. Problem is now even with the EGR back into place i cant get it start up. Cranks over but dies right away even with trying to give it gas. Is it time to start looking at the fuel pump? I was going to buy the 255 off of summit anyways. Would the fuel pump go like this and eventually cause me to not be able to start it up? Heres a picture of the connections to the EGR, is the white wire suppose to connect to something?
 

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well you started out right by checking the codes..but then you totally ignored them and wasted some $$ guessing at stuff...but anyway..

thats not a wire,its a vacuum hose..so you have a vacuum leak

and you need to get the car running and jumper out the clutch switch so you can clear the code 67 and get the KOER codes and see whats wrong while the car is running.

code 67 wont allow the computer to run the KOER tests

when you turn the key to the on position,do you hear the fuel pump prime?

code 87-Fuel pump primary circuit failure. When the FP relay was activated by the EEC, voltage was not detected on the control circuit.

i would check the relay before i dropped the tank..its under the drivers seat

the 81&84 are pointing toward vacuum leaks at the EGR and TAD solenoids

fuel pump 101:
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/foru...el-pump-diagnosis-101-1986-1993-mustangs.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok, sorry about jumping around, like i said in original post im new to the mustangs so i dont mind exploring. Its not my main driver right now so im taking this time to learn parts and get familiar with trouble shooting it. So when i got the code 67 then the other codeswerent accurate? i need to reset then run it again? Just making sure im on the same page with you. Im at work till 4 so when i get home i can check on the relay and for the prime. As for the vacuum hose, where does that go. I was looking at the diagram and i see the gray/silver color hose going to the EGR and the black hose going to the back area of the intake manifold. Whats this other white hose go to? (tried to take the pic up against the intake so you could see it better) Or does it just need to blocked? When i get home ill reset the codes and go from there.
 

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dont reset the codes just yet

there are two trouble code tests-
KOEO=key on engine off
KOER= key on engine running

a code 67 being present in the KOEO tests wont allow the computer to enter the KOER self test mode

theres a switch on the clutch pedal,so that you have to push the clutch down to start the vehicle..this switch basically just completes a ground circuit for PIN 30 of the computer to let the computer know the car is in neutral/safe to start

all you should have to do to clear the code is unplug the switch and jumper the connector with a wire or paper clip or something

then this should clear the 67 and you should be able to run the KOER test..its performed the same way as the KOEO test,except you start the car

but right now,you cant start the car,so you need to look into your fuel pump problem first lol

as for the vacuum stuff,this should help
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88Stang5.0Vacuum.gif
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Oh ok. Ive been looking at that diagram alot lately and trying to trace all the lines correctly. When i get home ill start over and try and track them all. I'll start with the fuel pump and see where that gets me. Thanks for the advice and hopefully i can get somewhere with it. Oh almost forget, ss the KOER the same thing but with the car running, does it run the car at a set RPM for a time frame? If so we did that on Sat but it was the same result in codes. Again tho i'll start with the codes and work at the 67 to try again.
 

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during the KOER test,the computer will rev the motor up and down over varying RPM's as it checks sensors and such

also if jumpering the clutch switch doesnt work to clear the 67,you can backprobe pin 30 on the computer and take it directly to ground to clear the 67,the run the KOER test..essentially,thats all the clutch switch does is ground pin 30
 

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Ok was messing with the EGR but the car wont start at all now. A guy at the shop said to try to block the EGR area with a plate, almost eliminating the source of the problem if there was one with it. Problem is now even with the EGR back into place i cant get it start up. Cranks over but dies right away even with trying to give it gas. Is it time to start looking at the fuel pump? I was going to buy the 255 off of summit anyways. Would the fuel pump go like this and eventually cause me to not be able to start it up? Heres a picture of the connections to the EGR, is the white wire suppose to connect to something?

I see the one white line isn't connected (its the one that is picktured by the blue intake elbow) Not sure if they chnged anything on 1992 as fars as the vaccuum line routing, but on my 1990 the EGR was plugged into the middle part of the vaccumm tree you have pictured. When you get the car running, disconnnect the vaccuum line on the EGR and plug it to see if that makes a difference, and if it does you will know you are pulling too much vaccuum at idle and need to find the right spot for the egr line to plug into.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok finally got to work on her again. I read the sticky for the fuel issues and bought a volt meter. Found out the problem lied in the inertia switch. She's running again but still having issues with the vacuum line. Anyone have any clue where that line goes? I also notice the AC line isnt there coming from the Vacuum Distribution Block. Also i saw the previous owner blocked off the lines leading to the throttle, but the 2 small holes need to blocked as well correct? Or are they allowed to stay open? Im posting 4 more pictures of what i found. Any help on where that hose needs to connect to would be great.
 

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the first pic,those are coolant lines for the egr spacer..it wont cause any problems like that,but boy does that look like **** lol

last pic..the a/c port on the vac tree..if thats open,you'll have a big time vac leak..plug it

sorry i cant help you with the broken little white one,i took all that crap off my car so im not sure where it goes..something emissions related..

id start by looking for the other end of it broken off somewhere over in the pass side corner there where the emissions stuff is all located

or just remove all the emissions stuff entirely if you dont need it for inspection..then you can get rid of all those little vac lines that clutter up the engine bay

my car only has 2 vac lines- 1 to the FP regulator,and the other to the PCV valve..i switched to manual brakes,so if i had power brakes it would have 3 vac lines
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Ah thanks, going out there now to plug the ac spot on the tree. Would there be the other end to the ac line, i mean if i plug the spot on the tree wouldnt there be an open spot where the line should go? Yea i know it looks rough, trying to fix all the little things left over by the previous owner is a pain. But hopefully after its all done i'll have it cleaned up and running proper. Still drawing a blank on that white hose...ive looked up and down for that spot and nothing yet. I'll keep at it tho.
 

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i really dont remember sorry..you need to find someone with a bone stock 5.0 and see what their's looks like..or ask them to take a pic or something lol
 
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