2006 V6 Manual Trans - Bucks in 1st Gear in AM

3202 Views 27 Replies 11 Participants Last post by ckp73, Jan 1, 2006

lovcom

Discussion Starter · Nov 15, 2005

Is mine the only one that does this?

In the mornings, when I drive the car around a parking lot making my way out of the complex, the car bucks around, lots of drive train lash, etc. I would imagine onlookers thinking I don't know how to drive a stick or worse.

This should not be the case. Here in OC California, the mornings these days are around high 50's low 60's. Once the motor warms up, this bucking issue goes away, but it really bothers me!

Do the V8's do this too? Do other V6's do this as well?

IMHO, this is not acceptable. The dealer maintains "this is how they all are", and they also say "just warm it up a bit in the morning before driving it". To my mind this is not acceptable. My Japanese products with fuel-injection never do this. You start them cold and drive on, no bucking, no issues.

What say youse guys?

Thanks

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

Hoodlum

· #2 · Nov 16, 2005

"To me it seems to be the result of the throttle response. As I'm sure alot of you know the throttle response is a tad bit slow. I believe the bunny hopping is from this latency of the throttle and the point of where the gas pedal actually is. Let me see if i can explain it by this example that I have tested. If I'm accelerating in first gear and i go through say a bump or a gutter(something to shake the car) it will change the position of my foot on the accelerator for a split second but then you try to find the exact spot that the accelerator was in before the bump or gutter and that starts a chain reaction of the throttle trying to give the proper amount of gas but by the time it does my foot has changed positions resulting in the bunny hopping. Ways to avoid this would be to disengage the clutch and or give plenty of gas because this bunny hopping only happens in first at slow speeds because that is the most sensitive gear. Now I havent brought it up to my ford dealer because its not really a defect its just the way the car works. Sorta how annoying the ac clutch is :handball:

PS. Hopefully everyone can follow that."

Taken from my post at http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48676

Short breakdown, If the engine is cold its idling higher meaning until it warms up your gonna be running ~500 rpm higher or more than what you would be if it was warmed up. I always let my engine warm up to reduce the above effects from the slow throttle response. If you need me to break it down for you further just let me know.

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lovcom

Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 16, 2005

Hoodlum, thanks for the very informative explanation. Still, why don't my other brand manual cars do this? That is the problem I have with this issue. The thing is, when I disengage the clutch, and wack the throttle, the tach shows a hesitant movement up the scale...it seems that Ford needs to refine the programming of the chip? It seems the 2006 is the most refined Mustang ever, however it seems there is more opportunity for improvement for Ford. Of course once warmed up, this bunny hopping does go away, but even warmed up it can still show up a little bit. Could this issue be caused by the fly-by-wire accelerator peddle?

Again, thanks for the explanation, as it does make sense.

kscoyote

· #4 · Nov 16, 2005

lovcom said:
Hoodlum, thanks for the very informative explanation. Still, why don't my other brand manual cars do this? That is the problem I have with this issue. The thing is, when I disengage the clutch, and wack the throttle, the tach shows a hesitant movement up the scale...it seems that Ford needs to refine the programming of the chip? It seems the 2006 is the most refined Mustang ever, however it seems there is more opportunity for improvement for Ford. Of course once warmed up, this bunny hopping does go away, but even warmed up it can still show up a little bit. Could this issue be caused by the fly-by-wire accelerator peddle?

Again, thanks for the explanation, as it does make sense.

yeah, and electronics get sluggish in the cold . . . The throttle by wire thing is a HUGE minus.

Vandil

· #5 · Nov 16, 2005

I had this problem in my GT for about the first 2 months. It just went away after awhile. I guess I figured the drive by wire system finally settled itself in.

lovcom

Discussion Starter · #6 · Nov 16, 2005

Vandil said:
I had this problem in my GT for about the first 2 months. It just went away after awhile. I guess I figured the drive by wire system finally settled itself in.

What was your milage when this happened? I've got 2,100 on mine now. One can only hope.

ssoss

· #7 · Nov 16, 2005

kscoyote said:
yeah, and electronics get sluggish in the cold . . . The throttle by wire thing is a HUGE minus.

Electronics get sluggish in the cold? Since when?

If anything, the electronics should be far more dependable then any physical connection, regardless of the weather but especially in the cold.

The owners manual says NOT to warm the engine on cold days. Says it's a waste of gas.

I dunno about the GT but I'm not particularly happy with the Tremec tranny in the V6. It's one of the main reasons I've considered trading for a GT. The throwout bearing is LOUD, and the plate is LOUD and the gears are notchy, and the linkage is LOUD. I have to be extra-very special careful to keep her quiet.

I love the stick and I love driving my car, but I wish these points were improved.

Hoodlum

· #8 · Nov 16, 2005

lovcom said:
Hoodlum, thanks for the very informative explanation. Still, why don't my other brand manual cars do this? That is the problem I have with this issue. The thing is, when I disengage the clutch, and wack the throttle, the tach shows a hesitant movement up the scale...it seems that Ford needs to refine the programming of the chip? It seems the 2006 is the most refined Mustang ever, however it seems there is more opportunity for improvement for Ford. Of course once warmed up, this bunny hopping does go away, but even warmed up it can still show up a little bit. Could this issue be caused by the fly-by-wire accelerator peddle?

Again, thanks for the explanation, as it does make sense.

Your welcome, as for the main reason its there and not on any other cars, This throttle is fly by wire like you said(fiber optic, electronic) and other cars are not and they are realtime physically connected to the pedal not electronically. Ford put in a delay which is where we are having the issue with the "bucking". But the following things enhance the likelyness of the "bucking" rearing its ugly head: Being in first gear because its so "sensitive of a gear" basically it accelerates and decelerates the fastest and the computer can not keep up with rapid changes causing the lag in throttle to buck the car. To add on to that if you dont let the car warm up like I said above the car will be higher in rpms until its warmed up which will also induce the "bucking" most notably when you slam on the gas and let off all the way and try to reapply the same amount of gas.

This problem will not go away until ford decides to remove the throttle lag but it can be defeated if the driver is aware of what causes it. If you think its gone then I dare you to go out to your car and(perferably with no one around to point and laugh) press the gas in and out repeatabily a couple of times then try to find the first point you pressed the gas in and hold, "buck" much? :winks

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lovcom

Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 16, 2005

ssoss said:
Electronics get sluggish in the cold? Since when?

If anything, the electronics should be far more dependable then any physical connection, regardless of the weather but especially in the cold.

The owners manual says NOT to warm the engine on cold days. Says it's a waste of gas.

I dunno about the GT but I'm not particularly happy with the Tremec tranny in the V6. It's one of the main reasons I've considered trading for a GT. The throwout bearing is LOUD, and the plate is LOUD and the gears are notchy, and the linkage is LOUD. I have to be extra-very special careful to keep her quiet.

I love the stick and I love driving my car, but I wish these points were improved.

Yea, I agree entirely. I had expected better from my '06 V6...refinement is missing in the manual tranny, the shifter, clutch, the fuel-feed programming during cold starts, noises all over the place, etc. Well, at least it doesn't rattle :eyebulge:

kscoyote

· #10 · Nov 17, 2005

ssoss said:
Electronics get sluggish in the cold? Since when?

If anything, the electronics should be far more dependable then any physical connection, regardless of the weather but especially in the cold.

The owners manual says NOT to warm the engine on cold days. Says it's a waste of gas.

I dunno about the GT but I'm not particularly happy with the Tremec tranny in the V6. It's one of the main reasons I've considered trading for a GT. The throwout bearing is LOUD, and the plate is LOUD and the gears are notchy, and the linkage is LOUD. I have to be extra-very special careful to keep her quiet.

I love the stick and I love driving my car, but I wish these points were improved.

any solid state electronics get sluggish in the cold. the material becomes denser, and electrons are harder to shove through the material, because they have less energy.

It's why batteries generally fail in extreme cold!!!!

ssoss

· #11 · Nov 17, 2005

kscoyote said:
any solid state electronics get sluggish in the cold. the material becomes denser, and electrons are harder to shove through the material, because they have less energy.

It's why batteries generally fail in extreme cold!!!!

In theory, what you're talking about is accurate, but in practicle terms, I don't think the slowdown in electrons would generate a noticable lag unless you are in an extremely cold climate.

Crazy001

· #12 · Nov 17, 2005

kscoyote said:
any solid state electronics get sluggish in the cold. the material becomes denser, and electrons are harder to shove through the material, because they have less energy.

It's why batteries generally fail in extreme cold!!!!

Normally you are very correct, but I disagree on this one. The electrons do not get "shoved" through the material...the electromagnetic wave itself travells through the wire. Kind of like waves in the ocean...it's not the water that moves, it's the wave.

Electricity will always travel the speed of light, no matter which material it's moving through. Resistance changes with temperature, though. A HOTTER wire has more resistance, but the electricity does not move slower. A hot wire will have less current because of greater resistance, and voltage will stay the same.

Current = voltage/resistance. The speed of light is a constant.

texastang

· #13 · Nov 17, 2005

I think it is a problem with either your pressure plate or your clutch.

kabukiUkie

· #14 · Nov 17, 2005

from my experience the problem is most apparent in 1st gear... the feeling sux, i can tell when it will "buck" and kinda jerk around for a little bit when i travel a short distance in first gear, let off the gas, and then this is the part where it has a sudden jerk when i reapply gas. Its also present, but a lot less noticeable, in 2nd gear... anything past 2nd seems fine.

i will say this, that an audi 6 spd manual is heaven compared to the 5 spd on our v6s... ford can definately have improved in this area.

texastang

· #15 · Nov 17, 2005

If it was a throttle or control problem similar symptoms would occur with automatic transmissions as well - every post I have seen on this problem has been a manual transmission. Anyone getting this with an automatic?

Hoodlum

· #16 · Nov 17, 2005

texastang said:
If it was a throttle or control problem similar symptoms would occur with automatic transmissions as well - every post I have seen on this problem has been a manual transmission. Anyone getting this with an automatic?

No its limited to manual transmissions and with out a side by side comparisons and tests and more knowledge on the inner workings of an auto transmission I could not tell you why the autos are not susceptable. But I have a feeling its how autos function internally.

kscoyote

· #17 · Nov 17, 2005

Crazy001 said:
Normally you are very correct, but I disagree on this one. The electrons do not get "shoved" through the material...the electromagnetic wave itself travells through the wire. Kind of like waves in the ocean...it's not the water that moves, it's the wave.

Electricity will always travel the speed of light, no matter which material it's moving through. Resistance changes with temperature, though. A HOTTER wire has more resistance, but the electricity does not move slower. A hot wire will have less current because of greater resistance, and voltage will stay the same.

Current = voltage/resistance. The speed of light is a constant.

ELectonics are voodoo to me, but in general, you are correct, but electrons don't move at the speed of light when moving through a medium. In space, they approach light speeds, but not through a wire.

http://www.matrixenergy.ca/ap/information/rp_information_cold_1.htm

look to the middle of the page on electronics, complex electronics and cold weather.

Crazy001

· #18 · Nov 18, 2005

Good link, some useful information there. I think it means something a little different, though...

It talks about how certain electronic components operate slower in colder temperatures, mainly those that actually undergo a physical change when electric current passes through them. The current still flows at the same speed, which is the speed of light, but certain electronic components react slower.

You were right about how it can affect complex electronics, I never considered the effect on electric components. However, the speed electricity stays constant.

texastang

· #19 · Nov 18, 2005

Still don't think it is electronics - if it was and you rev'ed the engine with the clutch down, you would hear it stumble or miss. Still maintain that such a problem would show up in automatics, even though the transmission might absorb some of the lurching. No, me thinks this is a clutch or pressure plate problem where the clutch is bouncing off the flywheel becasue it is either slipping or the pressure plate cannot hold it down. Such a problem could be sensitive to temperature. If you slipped the clutch excessively (like trying to race someone) this could be the result. Or it might just be a bad set up to begin with...

Crazy001

· #20 · Nov 18, 2005

The resason you don't see this in the automatics is because all automatic trannies use a torque converter. There is no solid link from the motor to the drive wheels with an auto, as the torque converter passes the energy through a small fluid gap, absorbing all sudden jerks by the motor.

A manual has a clutch which doesn't absorb anything, and transmits everything to the wheels. It's almost comparing a car without a suspension system to a car with one...the one without transmits all road imperfections to the entire car, while the one with a suspension absorbs most abnormalities.

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