[scooterk]

Hi everyone,

I want to improve the handling of my car, but I am concerned about lowering it since I have scrapped the front air damn at stock ride height a few times already. I am thinking of getting a 2011 GT suspension from New Take Off. I do have a couple concerns though. From my few times out doing autox the stock V6 suspension had a ton of brake dive. Does the GT suspension suffer from the same issue, or is it significantly reduced? Second, since the GT springs are made to support the heavier 5.0 engine will my front end actually sit higher? Hopefully someone who has done this swap can chime in on their experience.

Thanks in advance,

Scott

 

[Ltngdrvr]

The performance package cars use some of the GT's suspension components so you can do it but you'd be better off with aftermarket parts made for the V6.

And if you already are scraping the front end then my suggestion is that you slow down over those big bumps!

 

[Mountain]

The v6 Performance Pacakge is basically the GT's suspension. In that case, there is some brake dive, but not a ton.

I know what you are saying about scraping. I've already scraped my front valance a little and getting down some driveways, even going slow, takes careful practice. If you aren't paying full attention and go slow, I have still scraped. I originally wanted to lower my car too... not any more I'd rather have less scratches than look a little cooler and handle a little better (can't believe I said that). The other thing are the curbes in parking spaces. Many times I have gotten out of the car to check my front end and it just barely clears.... It's either that or if you want to avoid the curbes you (at least in my area) risk having you car sticking out of the parking space.

 

[scooterk]

The performance package cars use some of the GT's suspension components so you can do it but you'd be better off with aftermarket parts made for the V6.

And if you already are scraping the front end then my suggestion is that you slow down over those big bumps!

Well, it's not just bumps, but even normal curbs and parking lot barriers that I will be fearful of with a lowered car. I know aftermarket will be vastly superior in performance, but also in price. I haven't decided yet how much I want to invest in mods for the car. I just really want that brake dive gone!

 

[Ltngdrvr]

Curbs and parking lot barriers?

That's easy, just don't pull up to them. You know you can stop before the tire gets up against them. There's no reason to get close to them.

It's easy and it's free.

 

[stevessvt]

And angled drive ways can be taken on a 45* angle.

 

[Wblv17]

And angled drive ways can be taken on a 45* angle.

or not at all. LOL

 

[Mountain]

Curbs and parking lot barriers?

That's easy, just don't pull up to them. You know you can stop before the tire gets up against them. There's no reason to get close to them.

It's easy and it's free.

Some parking spaces that I have encountered, if you don't pull up into the space, where the front of your car shadows a little above the barrier, your car will have it's back end sticking out of the space. Those are rarer occurances though.

My drive way is an old-school design and has an angled edge to where you have to go slow and you have to do one tire at a time at an angle to get down from it. If I were lowered 1"-1.5" more, I'd have to go really really slow, which would be annyoing every morning for work.

Also, the guy lives in Ohio. Think about the winter months, that is if he plans on driving year-round.

 

[Mountain]

Well, it's not just bumps, but even normal curbs and parking lot barriers that I will be fearful of with a lowered car. I know aftermarket will be vastly superior in performance, but also in price. I haven't decided yet how much I want to invest in mods for the car. I just really want that brake dive gone!

You have two other options besides getting aftermarket springs, which most will lower your car.

One, keep your V6 base springs and install different dampers, whether they be non-adjustable (FRPP, Koni, Bilstein) or adjustable (Tokico, Koni, Bilstein, FRPP).

Two, install GT/V8 springs and install different dampers as noted above.

I would recommend adjustables if you are tracking. That way you can have a setting for the street and one for the track. With changing to more agressive dampers, you can lessen brake dive with your V6 springs, but to a degree in relation to ride. With the GT springs, you should decrease brake dive a little and then with the dampers, you can decrese it a little more.

This is what I am thinking about doing at some point. I am looking at the FRPP adjusables or the Tokico's. The FRPP dampers are single adjustments with two-way response, meaning that one adjustment will change rebound and compression at the same time. The Tokico's are also single adjustment, dual-response. The FRPP shocks are manufactured by a company the makes dampers for some of the Ford race cars. Tokico adjusables are used on the BOSS 302 LS (though I believe a different version than the D-spec).

The FRPP dampers have 5-adjument settings and I think the Tokico's have 7-adjustment settings. Not 100% on this.

Ford Racing Performance Parts

Strano Performance Parts - Part Details


Koni Reds are a good choice if you want non-adjustables. The nice thing about Koni is you can have them sent in and modified for your specific criteria or you can have them sent in and made adjustable down the road.

http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetails.php?PartID=485&CategoryID=199&ModelID=35

 

[scooterk]

You have two other options besides getting aftermarket springs, which most will lower your car.

One, keep your V6 base springs and install different dampers, whether they be non-adjustable (FRPP, Koni, Bilstein) or adjustable (Tokico, Koni, Bilstein, FRPP).

Two, install GT/V8 springs and install different dampers as noted above.

I would recommend adjustables if you are tracking. That way you can have a setting for the street and one for the track. With changing to more agressive dampers, you can lessen brake dive with your V6 springs, but to a degree in relation to ride. With the GT springs, you should decrease brake dive a little and then with the dampers, you can decrese it a little more.

This is what I am thinking about doing at some point. I am looking at the FRPP adjusables or the Tokico's. The FRPP dampers are single adjustments with two-way response, meaning that one adjustment will change rebound and compression at the same time. The Tokico's are also single adjustment, dual-response. The FRPP shocks are manufactured by a company the makes dampers for some of the Ford race cars. Tokico adjusables are used on the BOSS 302 LS (though I believe a different version than the D-spec).

The FRPP dampers have 5-adjument settings and I think the Tokico's have 7-adjustment settings. Not 100% on this.

Ford Racing Performance Parts

Strano Performance Parts - Part Details


Koni Reds are a good choice if you want non-adjustables. The nice thing about Koni is you can have them sent in and modified for your specific criteria or you can have them sent in and made adjustable down the road.

Strano Performance Parts - Part Details

Thanks mountain, I think the GT springs and a set of aftermarket dampers would be a good compromise for me. This brings me back to my question about front end ride height. With the lighter weight of 3.7 will the front sit higher on GT springs?

 

[740weapon]

To me, the weakest link in the base suspension is the shocks/struts.

If I were to track my car, I would buy good dampers and good tires first. Secretly (openly?) I hope my stock shocks/struts die 1 day out of warranty so I can buy good ones guilt free.

Body roll and brake dive are 'OK' as long as it’s controllable and predictable.

Brake dive is basically related to the underlying suspension geometry. So there is no 'fixing it' unless you do some serious/custom pivot point adjustments. All stiffer springs do is reduce the travel... which at least makes the math easy: The vertical dive distance will reduce X% for X% stiffer springs...

Good dampers will hopefully make the dive (and roll) more predictable and more settled.

 

[2VipeRS]

A lot of GT owners are going aftermarket as they provide much better handling than the stock GT suspension. Not only does aftermarket parts perform better, they are cheaper.

 

[Mountain]

Thanks mountain, I think the GT springs and a set of aftermarket dampers would be a good compromise for me. This brings me back to my question about front end ride height. With the lighter weight of 3.7 will the front sit higher on GT springs?

The best I can answer your question is that the ride height on my Performance Package Mustang is at the same, or just about the same ride height as a base. I have had a collegues base car right next to mine and I have parked next to another base model as well. Both my car and theirs were basically the same.

The weight difference between the 5.0L and the 3.7L is something around 150lbs, maybe less. Dynamically, this definately affects how the car operates, but statically, the poistion of the car wont change all too much. I mean, I don't know the OEM spring rates, but they have to be at least around 200lb/in.

A lot of GT owners are going aftermarket as they provide much better handling than the stock GT suspension. Not only does aftermarket parts perform better, they are cheaper.

Ture, but we need to keep the posters concern in mind. The concern isn't just reducing brake dive and cornering performance, it is also ride height vs. curbs, bumps, and other obstructions. Most aftermarket springs are variable spring rate, which is much nicer than the stock singular spring rate.


The other thing that most people do not realize that affects brake dive is caliper location. I, myself, do not fully understand the dynamics behind this, but it is another tuning/modification factor. This fact comes from a very reputable source from a big name race team...

 

[Nightmare37]

That would suggest GT springs would raise the front of a 3.7L ~ 1/2 of an inch. Maybe you could go off-roading with 5.0L springs.

 

[twigstang]

Hi everyone,

I want to improve the handling of my car, but I am concerned about lowering it since I have scrapped the front air damn at stock ride height a few times already. I am thinking of getting a 2011 GT suspension from New Take Off. I do have a couple concerns though. From my few times out doing autox the stock V6 suspension had a ton of brake dive. Does the GT suspension suffer from the same issue, or is it significantly reduced? Second, since the GT springs are made to support the heavier 5.0 engine will my front end actually sit higher? Hopefully someone who has done this swap can chime in on their experience.

Thanks in advance,

Scott

I just did exactly that. Got a good deal on shocks, springs & struts off a '11 GT from a take off place. Really firmed the car up, no more multiple bounces. After install it was sitting a little higher front and rear, but that may come down a bit after the springs compress, it was under a 1/2 inch difference. Haven't had a chance to throw it into the curves hard yet, but the main reason I did it was because I put a set of 19" GT wheels on, and they seemed to need a little stiffer suspension than the 17"s. Anyway, I am pleased with the results.