[here for the beer]

Hello everyone!

Moving along with the assembly of the 289/C4 and I am starting to think through the different vacuum lines required. Keep in mind, this motor/trans didn't come with any vacuum lines, trans linkage, carb linkage, fuel lines, etc. Just trying to figure it all out as I go.

In the various diagrams I have seen of the carb/spark/intake manifold/trans vacuum lines, some show check valves, temperature controlled vacuum lines for EGR I believe, intake manifold fitting for accessories (in my case windshield wipers at least lol), etc. This is going into a 1950 Ford shoebox, so I don't need any of the EPA stuff, nor am I worried about everything being period correct. I just need it to run well. I am using an HEI distributor with vacuum advance FYI.

Any simplified diagram I can reference for how I need to run the vacuum lines for the 289/C4 carb/intake/trans would be greatly appreciated. I know I'll eventually be able to figure it out through trial and error, but I'm sure with the wealth of knowledge on here I can get a lot closer to the mark initially.

Thank you in advance!
Chris

 

[Grimbrand]

Your vacuum lines are actually very simple on that setup: from the block at the back of the intake (if you have one!) run your power brakes off the 'big' connector if so equipped. Run your transmission vacuum line off another. Run your vacuum accessories (heater/ac) off a small port. If you don't have the 'block' style vacuum tee, you will have to figure out another way to share manifold vacuum with those items.

Then you have a decision to make: Ported or manifold vacuum for your distributor. That is a hotly contested topic, but off your carb, one special port has no vacuum when the throttle blades are closed, and full vacuum when you give it any throttle at all.

Either way, the rest will come down to tuning! Cap the rest of your ports wherever they may be on your carb or intake, and you're done. There may be thermally activated ports, but all of that stuff is for smog, and will not benefit you in terms of mileage or performance (nor emissions, most likely).

 

[Cobrajet67]

Hello everyone!

Moving along with the assembly of the 289/C4 and I am starting to think through the different vacuum lines required. Keep in mind, this motor/trans didn't come with any vacuum lines, trans linkage, carb linkage, fuel lines, etc. Just trying to figure it all out as I go.

In the various diagrams I have seen of the carb/spark/intake manifold/trans vacuum lines, some show check valves, temperature controlled vacuum lines for EGR I believe, intake manifold fitting for accessories (in my case windshield wipers at least lol), etc. This is going into a 1950 Ford shoebox, so I don't need any of the EPA stuff, nor am I worried about everything being period correct. I just need it to run well. I am using an HEI distributor with vacuum advance FYI.

Any simplified diagram I can reference for how I need to run the vacuum lines for the 289/C4 carb/intake/trans would be greatly appreciated. I know I'll eventually be able to figure it out through trial and error, but I'm sure with the wealth of knowledge on here I can get a lot closer to the mark initially.

Thank you in advance!
Chris

Do you know what year engine and trans they are? There'll be casting #s that you can reference on the block and heads and the trans would have had a tag on the side but even if that's missing there'll be part #s that will give you a clue as to the year of it.
Grimbrand's advice is good. If you want something to actually view then you can find diagrams here: Mustang Wiring and Vacuum Diagrams | Average Joe Restoration

 

[here for the beer]

Thank you gentlemen!

The motor/trans originally came out of a '64 Galaxie, but I can get the numbers off the block/trans later if needed. The existing vacuum advance line coming off of the distributor went into a small port on the carb. Wasn't sure if that was correct or not, which is why I was looking for some sort of diagram. I'm replacing the existing worn distributor with a new HEI unit/wires/plugs. Just waiting on a new water pump and starter to arrive and I'm pretty much there. I need to figure out the vacuum lines, come up with some throttle linkage and should be pretty close to swapping.

The car they are going into (1950 shoebox) does not have power brakes and I don't plan on adding them in the near future. Knowing that, I assume I'm fine running the trans vacuum line from the C4 vacuum modulator to the large port on the back of the intake manifold using some sort of adapter. I have an aftermarket trans cooler and lines coming for the C4 as well since the radiator I'm using doesn't have any trans lines. Am I correct in assuming the 3-4" metal line on the driver's side that exits the transmission and makes a 90 degree turn down 3-4" is a vent tube? There are also two wires appearing to be positive and ground leads coming out of the driver's side. Anyone know if those are for the kickdown or some sort of neutral safety switch?

I believe the only accessory that uses vacuum are the wipers, but once I remove the existing flathead/trans I'll have a better idea. I'm trying to get the 289/C4 ready to drop in before I go taking anything out of a working car.

Sorry for all of the questions, this is my first project using a 289/C4. I usually work on flatheads.

 

[Grimbrand]

You are correct about everything! You get a gold star. =)

The two wires are your neutral safety switch. Some of those units had a backup light too, and though I can't remember for sure, I think it had 4 wires. I know it was a 4 pin connector at the firewall! I'm not sure your car had a safety switch, but it would be easy to test your transmission's switch; just chock the tires, and put the transmission in P or N and see if it passes current through those two wires. Any other gear should break the connection.


I may hate HEI distributors for a lot of reasons, but dang if I can find one that disagrees with how you intend to use it besides "But it's ugly!" lol It should serve you well. Don't throw out the original dizzy! Those are rebuildable and very reliable.

The whole "Manifold vs Ported" vacuum thing for your vac advance really only affects idle. If you choose to use either, you should be able to tune it to run well. If you have a mild cam, I'd suggest Manifold vacuum, as you may find it's much easier to set your base (mechanical) timing to about 12 degrees, check to see that it advances properly to about 34 degrees and stops by about 3000 rpms. When you plug in the vac advance, it will smooth out your idle and give you very smooth, progressive response and good part throttle power.

And for the record, I love flatheads too. My first "car" was a '38 Ford truck with the 85 horse V8 (though I never got it running. I was only 12).

 

[here for the beer]

I love gold stars almost as much as my kids do so thank you!

I'm installing a B&M 80775 floor shifter when the time comes to put it in the car. I may have to increase the tunnel size for the C4/shifter, but I'll worry about that when I get there. Where does the neutral safety switch actually wire into, the ignition? The '50 shoebox currently has a 3 on the tree + Borg Warner overdrive unit, so no sort of accommodation for a switch exists currently in the car.

Couldn't agree more about the HEI dizzys being ugly as sin, but it will give me some real estate on top of the intake manifold by eliminating the ignition coil. With how different the throttle linkage is, I'd like to have some extra room there in case I need it for whatever reason.

I'll probably just use the manifold vacuum line on the carb since there are no sort of emission on the car whatsoever. If I decide to change that down the line, should be easy enough.

Before I even begin to put this new combo in the car, I get to do my favorite thing in the world...wiring. I have a new harness from Rebel Wire that I will put in after I take out the interior and pull the dash. Speaking of which, no sort of alternator bracket came with the motor. I have a brand new Delco 10SI 1 wire sitting on my bench, but I'm not sure how it will work with the belt for this motor, or even if a 1 wire is correct for this application. Any advice on bracketry/alternator I should go with?

 

[Grimbrand]

If I were you, I would see if you can run a 3G alternator (which is probably a lot more similar to what came on the engine). Pulley spacing is always the tricky bit, here; if your new alternator is a different thickness, then it won't mount right, and may put the belt at an angle.

Additionally, while your ride is not electrically complicated, 1-wire alternators often won't charge right at low RPMs, and you have to give the engine a rev to kick them off because they are self-exciting instead of using a feed from the battery to turn the field on and off. A 3 wire alternator seems more complicated at first glance, but it's honestly no big deal even if you're no electrical whiz.

Being able to run an 'idiot light' in your dash is also more useful than you might think, and you usually can't do that with a 1 wire.

Lastly, the 3-wire senses current at the bus. If you have no sensitive electronics, this is less of an issue, but a drop of 1.5-2V can actually cause other problems like your headlights dimming. The 1-wire only sees what the battery voltage is, at the battery terminal, and keeps that stable(ish). The 3 wire alternator is much more nuanced, and sees exactly what's going on in the bus, so when you turn things on, it still keeps the voltage steady. The bus is just a fancy name for the power bar all of your electronics in the car plug into. Almost everything runs off the bus, with the exception of your starter (which hooks straight to the battery).

The '64 alternator bracket is just a bar with a curved slidey bit to hold one bolt on the alternator and allow tension adjustment. The other side has a bolt going through the case to act as a pivot point that the housing hangs from. It's held up with a metal plate that has some contouring, bolted to the water pump. Look at some pics of 289s and you can't miss it. A very practical setup, and simple too.

Back to your original question: Your car may have no provision at all for a neutral safety switch. If you leave the wires on the transmission disconnected (or even remove the NSS altogether) it will have no effect, since your ignition circuits don't rely on that extra connection down there. Just be aware you can start the car while it's in gear - and that's why they put the NSS in those cars to begin with! Not really a deal-breaker if you have some common sense, but starting your car in the garage and putting it through the back wall or running over yourself can really be a downer.

 

[here for the beer]

That would definitely be a downer