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Scott1966

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Hello, this is my first post and love the information has on here. I have a 1966 mustang with a 289 and looking for the best "bolt-on" upgrades that will give me the kick in the seats feel on the line. This is my daily driver and only use it for street use. It has an autolite 4100, a 1968 dual plane intake (C8ZE-9425-A), heads appear original (took off the valve cover and stamped 66 and 289 with one dot), the headers are HiPo C4ZE-9430-A, with dual H exhaust. the transmission is a David Kee 4 speed toploader manual with a 3.25 rear diff. I believe that covers the main issues people usually ask. Finally, looking to spend around ~$1-1.5K is able. I'm pretty handy in the garage and have the basic tools.
Thanks and look forward to hearing your advice.
 
Hi Scott! Honestly, it sounds like to have a the right parts already... there are 2 things that come to my mind...1) check the distributor internally to see if someone has installed softer advance springs.... sometimes, they even just take one out... that will allow the ignition timing to advance much faster as it was "slowed' down for smog reason in 1966... kits are available from summit, etc.....you want all your advance in at around 2500 rpm.... that in itself will really "perk up" the engine. The 2nd item are the heads... the oem heads are actually pretty good but in 1966 they narrowed the intake (IIRR the exhaust stayed the same as early 1965)… again, for smog reasons.... now the timing will really make a very nice difference, but, if you want to go a little more, pull the heads and port them...this is something you can easily do yourself...those IIRR also have a "hump" in the intakes that slows things down a bit and can ne easily ground gone as well.... if you look online, there should be real good vids on what and how to complete this as it was very popular for a couple of decades... and honestly, they will perform about as good as many of the aftermarket heads (w/stock cam)… this will provide a definite improvement w/throttle/engine response throughout the rpm power band... between these 2, with what you already have (the 4100 is an excellent carb BTW) it will feel as if you dropped a mild cam in the engine! But start with the ignition....this may very well be what you need!
 
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It is not uncommon to see a tuneup add as much as 20-30 horsepower. Definitely a good place to start. Ignition timing, making sure your plug wires and plugs are in good shape, cap and rotor if they're worn.

But as far as big bang-for-the-buck in the range you're talking? I'd pull your 289 and preserve it. Then drop in a GT40P roller cam engine from a '98-00 Explorer/Mountaineer. You can probably get the whole engine from a salvage yard for about $300. Upgrade the cam and valvesprings if budget allows, to something like the stock 5.0 HO cam. This is important, as the factory cam in those engines was only made for low-end grunt and fuel economy in a heavy vehicle. The valvesprings are weak, accordingly, because of its low lift. Don't forget to use a fuel pump eccentric on the new cam if you choose to use your old timing cover and mechanical fuel pump.

You can use your original intake, carburetor, timing cover, oil pan, front sump oil pump, and accessories on the new engine, effectively disguising it and making it look just like your 289.

Typically, this engine with that setup and the HO cam puts out an honest 260-270 horsepower, vs. the 165-or-so horsepower your 289 actually puts out. But even better, the average power of the GT40P engine is phenomenal, not just peak power. You also get the benefit of a roller cam, which means you don't have to worry about ZDDP additives or wiping a cam lobe. The GT40P heads are the best factory heads Ford ever used on a small block Windsor, but you will have to be very choosy about your header selection due to your factory Z-bar and the weird plug angles on these heads. If it were my car, I would probably stick with stock cast iron manifolds for simplicity's sake and ease of fitment. They should work fine, even if they're costing you just a few horsepower.

If you ever sell the car (HA!) you can include the original engine in good condition. But while you drive it, you can have all the benefits of improved power, driveability, torque, and the reliability of a roller cam with modern oil. It's not a 289, but with the old air cleaner on there, who'd know?
 
If you're still running the stock cam, that could be another place to upgrade. I ran a Comp 262 Xtreme Energy cam for years and was pretty happy with its torque production. Dyno chart included (there was some difficulty getting the C4 to behave). Combining a big cylinder head like the GT40 or some aftermarket head with a relatively small cam will help give you a broad, streetable power curve. A 170cc intake is probably as big as you want to go. You'll also want to increase compression as much as you can. I'm running flat top pistons that are 10 thou in the hole along with .027" thick MLS head gaskets to maximize quench and get compression as high as I can with stock milled heads. Higher compression basically always results in more power, torque, and better fuel economy. I'd shoot for 10:1 with a fairly mild cam and premium fuel.
 

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"mild cam, good heads" is definitely the way to go for a car that you intend to drive a lot. You can get to big horsepower with mild heads, big cam - but that gives up all your economy and low-end performance too. Using the best heads you can afford (and this would include ported stock heads, if that's what you do) and a well designed mild performance cam will give you a really broad powerband with torque all the way through. In a light car, that makes for a really fun time at any speed, any gear. It makes for good gas mileage too! A lot of these cars can get 25 mpg hwy. For a 50+ year old ponycar, that's pretty good!
 
Beechkid and Grimband, thanks for the info. Completely different approaches but looks like fun. Appreciate the insight
Myself & Grimband are almost always on the same page- this time included!!!! Mine was the give this a try and see if it satisfies you and Grimband gave you the ok, time to go all the way side!
 
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"mild cam, good heads" is definitely the way to go for a car that you intend to drive a lot. You can get to big horsepower with mild heads, big cam - but that gives up all your economy and low-end performance too. Using the best heads you can afford (and this would include ported stock heads, if that's what you do) and a well designed mild performance cam will give you a really broad powerband with torque all the way through. In a light car, that makes for a really fun time at any speed, any gear. It makes for good gas mileage too! A lot of these cars can get 25 mpg hwy. For a 50+ year old ponycar, that's pretty good!
Again, completely agree...what most people forget is these cars are very light...around 2900-3200 pounds depending on configuration as compared to say the new gen mustangs which weigh in at about 4,000 pounds IIRR... that extra weight makes a big difference!
 
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Discussion starter · #9 ·
What are your thoughts on the Edelbrock top end kit? Seems to cut the questions out of matching and I'm a little too novice in this area. Concerned I'll be repeating work if i select the wrong mild cam after porting myself. Too many choices. Grimbrand, do you have a particular mild cam in mind and what heads would you buy? Thanks again for all the advice, this site rocks.
 
What are your thoughts on the Edelbrock top end kit? Seems to cut the questions out of matching and I'm a little too novice in this area. Concerned I'll be repeating work if i select the wrong mild cam after porting myself. Too many choices. Grimbrand, do you have a particular mild cam in mind and what heads would you buy? Thanks again for all the advice, this site rocks.
Eddy products IMHO are not bad but not that good either...and their quality control cams specific has gone down to where I would not trust their products........except if you are talking intakes...and let me start with that....and carbs....


The 500 cfm Holley 2 bbl is exactly half of a 750 cfm double pumper Holley 4 bbl and is a good carb to consider if your Autolite is having some real issues or you didn't have one!. As for whether or not to swap to a 4 bbl intake, that depends on what 4 bbl intake you're talking about.If you swap to an Weiand Action Plus or an Edelbrock Performer, then you may aswell keep the stock 2 bbl intake.


I would go further and recommend any of the following intakes: Ford A321, Edelbrock F4B, Shelby "Cobra" (theseare all basically the same intakes) or Weiand Stealth, Edelbrock Performer RPM,or Air Gap RPM (but hood clearance is an issue with this one)…. but with regards to carbs, nothing larger than a 600-650 cfm carb. If you have an automatic, then go with vacume secondaries, otherwise, mechanical is really the best.


The smaller a carb's cfm rating, the better throttle response you'll get on the street.... Holley makes a 4v 450 cfm unit that really performs well, but in all honesty, the Autolite carb you have is about as good as you can get unless you do a lot of very high performance mods! A bigger cfm only nets you more power on the top end, at the detriment of the bottom end.

With regards to manifolds, the Edelbrock Torker II (IIRR) manifold is a near duplication of the Shelby manifoldsused in the 60's. RPM band is from 1500-6500 rpm (IIRR) and will easily handle up to 750 cfm.

A dual plane intake is typically the best design for street use. The dual plane system allows for maxatomization of fuel air at low & high CFM flows. Single planes arestreetable, but typically are designed for track, high RPM use where maxatomization is achieved at high CFM flows, most have very large runners and aremore commonly called "open plenums", typically, low rpm drivability/tuningis difficult.
With regard to cams....


Because the cam is so critical to the engine, I always have and always recommend using a cam grinder who will talk with you directly- even modify the cam grindto fit your needs even better and to address the possibility of cam lobefailure with the new oils. When it comes to making an engine breathe, there areso many variables including elevation, humidity, fuel blends/available octane,most cam mfgs will vary a "core grind pattern" which IMHO makes thedifferent between and engine that runs well, to one that just seems to run alittle bit better, smoother and gets better mileage than expected.


But the point to remember, advertizedlift/duration/lobe separation is just that- advertized and not the specificgrind including ramp profile that is used on the cam. I highly recommend Iskenderian (who I personally know to this dayphysically tests/inspects every single valve spring before it leaves the shop)& Crower & Chet Herbert & Lunati...all are family owned, beengrinding cams for decades, and both will even re-grind your oem cam ifpossible- saving you even more $.


IMHO- avoid Comp Cams like the plague..... a McDonald's production environment without the quality control processes and extensive QA issues which ultimately the customer takes the fall for much of the time.


With regards to heads, if youhaven't already, check with Trick flow as they use to have the one of the bestflowing heads for the 289's.


Whew.... hope this helps


I'm tired :grin:
 
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Your best bang-for-the-buck upgrade will always be heads. No question.

Most performance cams don't add torque - they just move it from the lower end to a higher RPM range, usually through tricks like increasing overlap. While that makes better power up top, it can make your car\a lot slower if you just 'step on the gas' while at modest RPMs. At low RPMs, too much overlap means part of your intake charge is getting sucked out the tailpipe as the previous exhaust leaves. That leads to poor power, and lousy economy. On the top end, that actually helps fill the chamber though, which brings power back up and makes good horsepower. Fine for drag racing, so long as you can keep your engine in its 'happy place'.

If you increase the breathing capacity of your heads within reason, your engine isn't limited by the size of the ports, and can breathe freely, making more power even with a modest cam that doesn't have a ton of overlap.

ANY aftermarket aluminum head, Edelbrock included, will make a lot more power than any stock head including the GT40Ps. If you want the best for street use, for a small block street-driven Windsor, that would be the AFR 165 Renegades. If you want cheap, Skip White's NKB heads would be a great choice. Edelbrock is somewhere in the middle. Try to keep your runner volume below 170CC, as having a giant sewer-pipe intake runner means your little Windsor won't be able to keep velocity up and stuff air into the cylinder effectively with pulse harmonics. Trick Flow heads are definitely the equal of AFR heads when it comes to peak power, but for street use, the AFR design is a shade better due to port and chamber design. They won't need as much octane, and will tend to deliver just a little more power at cruise and low throttle.

As far as intakes go, if you really want power, don't mess around. Take advantage of the modern technology that's gone into intake design, and get either a Weiand Stealth, or an Edelbrock Air-Gap RPM. There is no downside to running one of these manifolds, and they just flat out work. Check your hood clearance. Early 'Stangs are a bit tight in there. All that said, your stock intake and carb would be great for up to around 250 honest horsepower, easy, and are a very solid streetable combo.

Once you get your engine up above that power level, you might have to think about going with a different carb. Your amazing old Autolite will struggle to supply enough air for your engine on the top end, though it would continue to deliver awesome throttle response and torque all the way through. It would just steal horses on the very top end. If you get to this point, I'd look at the Summit M-series carbs, which are a direct descendant of the old 4100, but a little easier to tune. The 600 CFM version would be perfect. Note that I am being very specific here: a 600 CFM Holley or Edelbrock carb would not do nearly as well. Why? Annular boosters, with their superior atomization even at low flow. The usual boosters in a Holley can deliver the same top end, but will never deliver the crisp throttle response or economy of your old Autolite's annular boosters. Edelbrock DOES have a new model that offers annular boosters too, but the price, performance, and "gee whiz, this thing works great right out of the box!" factor of the M-series carbs is phenomenal. And they're cheap.

Lastly, flat tappet cams work fine. They can be great, even. But if you drive your car a lot and don't want to worry about things, you need to really consider going to a roller cam. Modern oil lacks ZDDP, which is flat out necessary for a performance flat-tappet cam. It helps prevent wear, despite high valvespring pressures, and the intense sliding friction of the lobes against your lifters. Without enough ZDDP, a stock cam with gentle valvespring pressures is even at risk. A rowdier cam with stiffer springs, getting run to higher RPMs makes it very likely that you'll lose a cam lobe or lifter eventually. You can combat this with additives, or by buying special oil, but in my opinion, once you've gone down the road of modding your engine anyway, why would you stick with a flat tappet and have to deal with all this?

There are roller cam retrofit kits, and a good machinist can even allow your block to accept a roller cam, but all of that is rather expensive. IMHO, it's a lot easier (and cheaper!) just to start with an '85+ block that's set up with a roller cam, stock. There are very few differences between Windsor blocks all the way from '66-2000 when they stopped using them. 289-302, all the same, effectively.

If you're not running the GT40P heads, get a good set of Tri-Y headers with 1 5-8" primaries, and a nice thick flange for good seal. When it comes to exhaust, scavenging is the key. Pulses of exhaust help draw the next intake charge into your cylinders, when your engine's spinning at the right speed for it to happen. With unequal length exhausts, you don't get any real effect from scavenging. You just want to let the burnt gases out as fast as possible. But with a good Tri-Y setup, you get a modest boost to performance around 3k, and another on the top end. They also happen to fit pretty well, even in manual -transmission cars. They work great for street use.

Full length headers give no benefit to low or midrange whatsoever, except that they probably let more gases out (just like any unequal length exhaust). However, up around 5500 or so, they kick in with a single very strong boost to your engine's torque, extending your top end pull. Sort of like the cam overlap situation, they are king when it comes to peak horsepower, but mediocre for a street driven car. If you have trouble with traction (which is often the case in a lightweight Mustang!) this might not be a bad thing at all, limiting your bottom end, while allowing you warp-speed top end. If you're going with a mild build, however, the extra shot-in-the-arm that the Tri-Y's give, combined with ease of fitment, make them the better choice most of the time.

Now that you're blown away with the shotgun of Windsor performance knowledge, decide how much money you want to spend on this project, and multiply it by about 3, because that's how much it will really cost you.


Best wishes! =)
 
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