[68FastSteve]

I am new to this forum and I recently picked up a '68 Fastback (289 in it) with a 1969 351W (on the side). I have seen many posts about stroking and boring the 351W to a 393, 408 or 427. I am trying to make around the 550-575 HP range with a decent amount of Torque to go with it. I also have 5 speed and a 9 inch rear to go with the motor. I see all these conflicting posts and I was wondering what the pros and cons were for each set up, 393, 408 or 427. The car is intended for car shows and occasionally jumping on it when on the highway or around the neighborhood. I am not looking to throw it on the track. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

-Sorry if this is bringing up any old posts.

 

[sp66stang]

my vote twin turbo 427. also you will need to beef up your trans to handle that much hp.

 

[68FastSteve]

my vote twin turbo 427. also you will need to beef up your trans to handle that much hp.

I was thinking about buying a Tremec TKO to handle the power but I dont want to add any turbos or superchargers. I want to run a naturally aspirated motor.

 

[rex1965]

I'm not sure if the 351w block can withstand that much hp, but for naturally aspirated, you need 427 cid, and a hp peak around 6,000 rpms, which means you need good heads, intake, cam, etc. Check out Joe Shermans engine builds, he does a lot and many hot rod type magazines runs an article on the builds, and there are many of them online, just do a search for them.

Joe Sherman Built Ford Windsor - Hot Rod Magazine

Build A 505HP Ford 351 Windsor

1969 Ford 351 Windsor - 50 Mustang Magazine

There are many more articles, but you should get the picture. My 2 cts. Good Luck.

 

[stangbang36]

Are you wanting the motor to make that power or is that the power you want to the wheels? The amount of power that is made at the crank will not be shown at the wheels due to power loss through transmission, rear end, rim/tire size, and engine accessories. I'd talk to a few machine shops first and research them a little. An engine build like you're wanting to do isn't going to be cheap. Wouldn't want you to spend all that money and it not perform worth a crap or something.

 

[sp66stang]

what part of new York? yes a tko should be able to handle the power. ok heres my thought. we run a 358 which is a 351 bored 30 over. 600-650 hp turning 7500-8000. not streetable. since you got the 351 for free sell it because you can make that much power but wont live long. get a 351 4 bolt main block ford motorsports, dart whatever you choose. forged stroked rotating assembly. I like eagle crank with oliver rods but your choice. a set of afr's 225 heads a super victor sr intake and a 850cfm holley carb. full roller camshaft roller lifters full roller rockers.


the reason I say stroked you don't have to turn it as hard so you should be in the 6500-7000 range which is a streetable engine. I don't your budget and we do our own machine work so we just pay for parts and still around 10k.


also might want to look at a crate engine and you get a warranty with it. these are just my opinion not facts.

 

[Cracker289]

Best heads you can buy, run around 10:1 compression, roller cam upgrade (something with about 245 degrees @ 050), single plain intake like a victor with an 850 on it, long tube headers with 2 inch primaries. And then spray the h*** out of it with nitrous and pray it all stays together! :grin:

 

[68FastSteve]

Im looking to get that type of return at the crank not the wheels. I know it wont be cheap; Im looking to spend around 10,000 for the motor.

 

[68FastSteve]

what part of new York? yes a tko should be able to handle the power. ok heres my thought. we run a 358 which is a 351 bored 30 over. 600-650 hp turning 7500-8000. not streetable. since you got the 351 for free sell it because you can make that much power but wont live long. get a 351 4 bolt main block ford motorsports, dart whatever you choose. forged stroked rotating assembly. I like eagle crank with oliver rods but your choice. a set of afr's 225 heads a super victor sr intake and a 850cfm holley carb. full roller camshaft roller lifters full roller rockers.


the reason I say stroked you don't have to turn it as hard so you should be in the 6500-7000 range which is a streetable engine. I don't your budget and we do our own machine work so we just pay for parts and still around 10k.


also might want to look at a crate engine and you get a warranty with it. these are just my opinion not facts.

Im from Queens. I was looking at staying with the 351W and turning into a 427W with Coast High Performance engine kit.

PRO STREET Engine Kit - Ford 427W Reverse Dome -22.0cc Part#12360-030-PS-F427W

AFR 185cc Ford Small Block Outlaw Street Cylinder Heads, Assembled Part# 1422

Comp Cams - Xtreme Energy Hydraulic Roller Lifter / Grind# XE282HR
Part#CMP-35-522-8

MOREL HYDRAULIC ROLLER LIFTERS SB FORD Part# STR-5323

what do you think on this type of set up? The rep said I can hit my 550-575 hp mark. He recommended the AFR 205 heads but the 185 heads are $500 cheaper and can still get me to my hp.

 

[68FastSteve]

I'm not sure if the 351w block can withstand that much hp, but for naturally aspirated, you need 427 cid, and a hp peak around 6,000 rpms, which means you need good heads, intake, cam, etc. Check out Joe Shermans engine builds, he does a lot and many hot rod type magazines runs an article on the builds, and there are many of them online, just do a search for them.

Joe Sherman Built Ford Windsor - Hot Rod Magazine

Build A 505HP Ford 351 Windsor

1969 Ford 351 Windsor - 50 Mustang Magazine

There are many more articles, but you should get the picture. My 2 cts. Good Luck.

Thanks, this was really helpful, there are so many options to go with a 351W its driving me crazy.

 

[68FastSteve]

Best heads you can buy, run around 10:1 compression, roller cam upgrade (something with about 245 degrees @ 050), single plain intake like a victor with an 850 on it, long tube headers with 2 inch primaries. And then spray the h*** out of it with nitrous and pray it all stays together! :grin:

I hear the AFR aluminum heads are awesome, Im almost positive I will buy those and yeah Im looking for a compression ratio like that. 850 carb would be too much don't you think? I think a 750 would be more than enough.

 

[rex1965]

A rule of thumb on carbs is, double your cubic inches of displacement, 427X2=854 so a 850 cfm carb should be good to 6,000 rpms and a little beyond. What you have to keep in mind, is it all has to work together, and then the second part, is it all has to stay together, which means a car that only get a 1/4 mi usually has a different build than one that should go 100,000 mi. To me, oiling takes priority, if anything lacks enough oil, it will fail prematurely. Since I don't know your level of expertise, if you have not rebuilt one of these engines or any engine for that matter, you are probably asking for trouble, the next best solution is a friend who has to help with the build, all most any mistake in the build, parts not cleaned properly, not pre-lubed properly, not checked to spec, not torqued properly, etc etc, will probably result in a blown engine, which is bad, not only the cost, but when an engine blows when accelerating, many times a piece goes through the oil pan and dumps the oil under the car, which gets all over the tires, and the chances of a spin-out or fire is pretty high. I'm not trying to scare you, but to make you aware of the importance of your undertaking. And if you spend 10k on the engine, you will spend another 5-10k on all the mods necessary for the car to support that kind of power. My 2 cts. Good Luck.

 

[sp66stang]

I would got with the 205s. city boy jk im from the north country. Plattsburgh area. listen to rex's advice he has plenty of experience.

 

[68FastSteve]

A rule of thumb on carbs is, double your cubic inches of displacement, 427X2=854 so a 850 cfm carb should be good to 6,000 rpms and a little beyond. What you have to keep in mind, is it all has to work together, and then the second part, is it all has to stay together, which means a car that only get a 1/4 mi usually has a different build than one that should go 100,000 mi. To me, oiling takes priority, if anything lacks enough oil, it will fail prematurely. Since I don't know your level of expertise, if you have not rebuilt one of these engines or any engine for that matter, you are probably asking for trouble, the next best solution is a friend who has to help with the build, all most any mistake in the build, parts not cleaned properly, not pre-lubed properly, not checked to spec, not torqued properly, etc etc, will probably result in a blown engine, which is bad, not only the cost, but when an engine blows when accelerating, many times a piece goes through the oil pan and dumps the oil under the car, which gets all over the tires, and the chances of a spin-out or fire is pretty high. I'm not trying to scare you, but to make you aware of the importance of your undertaking. And if you spend 10k on the engine, you will spend another 5-10k on all the mods necessary for the car to support that kind of power. My 2 cts. Good Luck.

Thanks rex and my father and i had my uncle (mechanic who worked with Bill Mitchell Racing) rebuild a chevy 454 motor for our 1970 chevelle and we had it bored 30 over. The reason I said 750 carb for the 427 was because in the chevelle our mechanic (only works on classic muscle cars- mainly chevys) said to put a Pro Form 750 carb and ever since we put it in, the car is running amazing. I see your logic about the doubling of cubic inch of the motor to get the right carb set up. Im going to ask my mechanic why the chevelle only has a 750 then.

 

[rex1965]

On the street a little smaller carb is always better, like for a 289 CID, a 600 cfm with vacuum secondaries will perform better, than most other carbs. I've ran more than 5 different carbs on my 289 271 hp, one being a 750 cfm holley (which I had to get the engine up to 4,000 rpms to pull in the secondaries), and my 600 cfm autolite has out performed them all on the street, now if I was racing it, I would probably go with the 750. Most of my experience is with the 289 and 302, some with the 351w and 351C, and a few big blocks. Your engine on the street will run fine on a 750, but if you are wanting to make the big hp, it may restrict your outcome, too big a carb is worse than too small a carb, even though a carb is rated at say 750 cfm, that doesn't mean it won't flow more than 750 cfm, that is the rating the carb is given with a certain amount of vacuum, it will just have more vacuum at full throttle than a larger carb, I don't remember what the spec is I think it is like .25" hg, 2b and 4b are rated differently, in case someone is comparing apples to oranges. And the reason I use the cid doubled for carb size, is that if the engine has 100% volumetric efficiency and at about 6,000 rpms using the math that is just about what the result is. My 2 cts. Good luck.

 

[silver69]

use a 408 kit with 6.2" rods and sometimes less is more...650cfm carb. The heads and cam will make or break the build so choose carefully. Try to use combination where the bore is closest to the stroke as they tend to rev the best for longer life. my $.02

 

[mhuggler]

For carb. sizing I use CID X max rpm/3456. There are a lot of other variables, but this has gotten me very close if not dead on every time.

 

[68FastSteve]

On the street a little smaller carb is always better, like for a 289 CID, a 600 cfm with vacuum secondaries will perform better, than most other carbs. I've ran more than 5 different carbs on my 289 271 hp, one being a 750 cfm holley (which I had to get the engine up to 4,000 rpms to pull in the secondaries), and my 600 cfm autolite has out performed them all on the street, now if I was racing it, I would probably go with the 750. Most of my experience is with the 289 and 302, some with the 351w and 351C, and a few big blocks. Your engine on the street will run fine on a 750, but if you are wanting to make the big hp, it may restrict your outcome, too big a carb is worse than too small a carb, even though a carb is rated at say 750 cfm, that doesn't mean it won't flow more than 750 cfm, that is the rating the carb is given with a certain amount of vacuum, it will just have more vacuum at full throttle than a larger carb, I don't remember what the spec is I think it is like .25" hg, 2b and 4b are rated differently, in case someone is comparing apples to oranges. And the reason I use the cid doubled for carb size, is that if the engine has 100% volumetric efficiency and at about 6,000 rpms using the math that is just about what the result is. My 2 cts. Good luck.

Thanks you've been a great help! Im letting you know if I have any more questions during the build Im going to give you a buzz. Thanks again.