[Nashville'65]

Hey guys- interested in your perspective. i have a 65 c-code coupe that has the original engine in it...but it's been modified to the "HiPo" specs (converted from 2BBL carbs to 4BBL), etc. Transmission was also changed out for a toploader 4SPD.

Someone asked me the other day if the car was "numbers matching", and I paused.

It's the same engine, so I was inclined to say yes...but it's not in the "correct and original" form.

If I represented my Mustang as a "numbers matching" car...is that a fair description? What do you think?

Thanks.

N'65

 

[Sick467]

Numbers Matching to me means...

That any part that has a number on it matches the make, model, VIN info and year And that there are no parts missing that where numbered. Which for Ford was practically eveything.

So, your intake and 4bbl carb do not match the C-code spec nor does your tranny meet the door tag.

I'm no show go'er, but that's my def.

 

[6T6Coupe]

I would have to agree with the above. It wasn't born that way.

 

[BigSecz]

This has been a widely debated term and is really a matter of perspective anymore. You almost have to follow up the tern "numbers matching" with your descripton of what that actually is. I know on Mecum they often talk about what numbers matching means.

A die-hard purist will tell you that numbers matching means that everythying on the car is correct to the period in that the original engine and trans are marked with the VIN sequence number and everything else has to be marked with the correct date code on it.

The more commonly used definition is that the engine and trans are marked with the VIN and the rearend has the correct date code.

So by that definition your engine is "numbers matching" in that the block is original and would be engraved with the correct sequence number, even though the carb and intake are not orginial. Your trans would not be "numbers matching".

So the next time you are asked that question you can reply, "Only the engine is numbers matching, it is not a full numbers matching car." But to a purist no, your car is not a "true numbers matching" car.

 

[bubbamace]

For me, Numbers matching means the engine and transmission match the vin plate information on the car. So, I agreeing with bigsecz.

 

[6T6Coupe]

A different term...original. As I learn about different items in my car...carpet or whatever it may be. I have decided recently that im gonna make it "original" to the day i bought it. I bought the car 3 weeks short of 23 years ago. I have since found out, it had Medium Blue carpet in it that day. not Dark Blue as it was born with. I have talked to a few owners of light blue cars and they all have Medium Blue carpet. They say the same as i do, it matches the light blue exterior paint better. And i agree. Why did i buy new Dark Blue carpet for it last year?? I still dont know.

Windshield washer bag that was in car says FORD, which is incorrect. It was in a wreck which got the front LH corner. Body shop prob wasn't worried about the correct bag then. But that's a very small piece to change if a person wanted to one day.

Remember, its all about the way you want it. One more thing i will add to this rambling. Most people that do alot of mods to their cars/trucks...eventually end up selling it because its "boring now." I am never bored with my car. A piece of history. Maybe not as nice/original as that 56 mile 1966 Coupe that Bob Perkins has in his collection, but still real original. (even talking factory original) Even better in some ways because its got "stories to tell"

Have a great weekend guys! Get that Mustang out of the garage and put some miles on it! :yup:

 

[bubbamace]

A different term...original. As I learn about different items in my car...carpet or whatever it may be. I have decided recently that im gonna make it "original" to the day i bought it. I bought the car 3 weeks short of 23 years ago. I have since found out, it had Medium Blue carpet in it that day. not Dark Blue as it was born with. I have talked to a few owners of light blue cars and they all have Medium Blue carpet. They say the same as i do, it matches the light blue exterior paint better. And i agree. Why did i buy new Dark Blue carpet for it last year?? I still dont know.

Windshield washer bag that was in car says FORD, which is incorrect. It was in a wreck which got the front LH corner. Body shop prob wasn't worried about the correct bag then. But that's a very small piece to change if a person wanted to one day.

Remember, its all about the way you want it. One more thing i will add to this rambling. Most people that do alot of mods to their cars/trucks...eventually end up selling it because its "boring now." I am never bored with my car. A piece of history. Maybe not as nice/original as that 56 mile 1966 Coupe that Bob Perkins has in his collection, but still real original. (even talking factory original) Even better in some ways because its got "stories to tell"

Have a great weekend guys! Get that Mustang out of the garage and put some miles on it! :yup:

I can go along with most of what you said, but the" Most people that do a lot of mods to their cars/trucks...eventually end up selling it because its"boring now" part is just not true. Everyone doesn't want a "boring", slow original mustang. I don't want drum brakes that are antiquated and unsafe at high speed. I can tell you that I've had my 1966 Mustang for 7 years and have no plan of selling it because its "boring" Its fast, it stops on a dime and it handles well. You can see it coming for miles with the custom paint. That's what I want. I will be buying a newer Mustang convertible in the future, which I will leave stock because the Mustang has progressed to the point where I don't have to alter it.

I feel like you are talking without any knowledge of the restomod guys on here. Perhaps you need to drive an old Mustang with disc brakes and a handling package or maybe you drive your Mustang very slow and leave extremely long distances to stop. Now that's boring in my opinion, but I realize everyone wants something different from their car.

 

[6T6Coupe]

im not against resto mods. In fact if i had it to do over again, i might put disc brakes on my car, but i was just wanting to get it on the road again after 4 yrs of sitting. Its the people i talk to at car shows that tell me after i ask "why are you selling it". Most reply that they are selling it because they want to restore a Mustang to original condition. The problem with custom paint is Yes, You like it but the day might come when you might want or need to sell it. Then its tough to find someone that shares your taste in that custom paint. And i think its great that "thats what you want" Alot of people never get what they want in a ride. Im happy for you. Im not against custom paint. Some rides look very sharp.

Knowledge on resto mods...you are right. I have none, except for what i read about in mags or here. And see at car shows. Far as driving slow, i dont like getting tickets but i also get the old worn out coupe i have up to 85-90-95 once in awhile. (that's ticket enough for me-if i was to have a bad day)

When it comes to stopping distances to stop goes...I prefer to leave enough room so that when a moose or other driver/object decides to enter the road that im on, without paying attention, that i can stop without locking them up causing the guy behind me to take whatever action he has to. a person always has to be aware of them "tailgaters" that think they can stop on a dime if they have to. But yeah, build your car the way you want it. Its your car. I change some things on my car. (like the carpet) But its never boring to drive.

Just make sure to get it out of the garage and drive it, that's what cars were made for. :yup:

 

[andrewmp6]

Numbers matching is a gm thing meaning full vin on the engine trans and rear end.Fords its casting codes matching meaning you could change engines and be right.And most who buy a mustang are looking for a fastback or convertible a coupe is a hard sell that's had a lot of work done on it.

 

[bubbamace]

Numbers matching is a gm thing meaning full vin on the engine trans and rear end.Fords its casting codes matching meaning you could change engines and be right.And most who buy a mustang are looking for a fastback or convertible a coupe is a hard sell that's had a lot of work done on it.

Well, Andrew, if you were looking to sell something, why buy it and fix it? Unless you really didn't care about the car in the first place and was just out to make some money. I think I might be on the wrong forum. I thought this was the Allfordmustangs forum because we all loved our Mustangs. I guess I'm wrong. Perhaps I should be looking for the "custom" or "restomod" forum so that people don't have to buy a fastback or convertible to appreciate their cars.

 

[Veronica]

Hello. We know of at least three numbers that don't match, namely, the casting numbers on the intake, carb, and tranny, so, no, calling it numbers matching would not be an accurate description. :nogrinner And, as a side note, numbers matching means even less on a GM car from the 60s. There is absolutely no way to establish conclusively what motor the car came with originally and reproductions of any and all paperwork and tags is readily available from a variety of sources. A GM car is considered numbers matching if the paperwork the owner has is consistent with whatever happens to be physically present on the car at the moment, which, in no way indicates that this how the car sitting in front of you actually came from the factory.

 

[zigmont]

Hey guys- interested in your perspective. i have a 65 c-code coupe that has the original engine in it...but it's been modified to the "HiPo" specs (converted from 2BBL carbs to 4BBL), etc. Transmission was also changed out for a toploader 4SPD.

Someone asked me the other day if the car was "numbers matching", and I paused.

It's the same engine, so I was inclined to say yes...but it's not in the "correct and original" form.

If I represented my Mustang as a "numbers matching" car...is that a fair description? What do you think?

Thanks.

N'65

So far as I understand it, the term HiPo only refers to the K code 271 HP engine which actually had the VIN stamped on the block just above the oil pan on the driver side. I don't know of any other early 289 engines that actually have the VIN stamped anywhere on the engine block.

 

[Veronica]

Hi again. The hipo was indeed the K code, and they did have the vin stamped on the block. It was right above the oil pan, towards the front, but, it was on the passenger side.

 

[andrewmp6]

Veronica the late 60s gm did start stamping the vin on the drivetrain mostly in case its stolen they can trace the parts down.The point i was making before is most would rather spend 10k on a fastback or convertible vs a coupe.My 68 i won't sell unless someone offers me like 40k for it and i doubt that day will come anytime soon.

 

[Instinx]

In my perspective, if the car has the original motor, (atleast the block the same) its a numbers matching car.

Its hard not to put more power into your mustang, new intakes and carbs on so many, hell I seen someone ported 351 heads onto a 260 v8 in a 64.5 stang, same block, just modified for that power kicker.

to me its your car, do what you want to it, I pulled my auto and swapped to a 5 speed, cause thats what I wanted, I also roll a 66 grill on a 65, cause I think it looks better.

People point that stuff out, I explain why its that way, and they just dont understand, its not there vehicle.