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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Quick synopsis of all the issues I have had since I took delivery a year ago. (I love my car and I would never sell/trade/lemon it if it didn't have the issues that I experienced.)

- 1 block down the road when I purchased the vehicle my 2nd gear kept popping out while engaged. This wasn't fun in a hill. Conclusion: No second gear from factory, Ford replaced the whole transmission
- Engine tick from day 1, sounds like a 1986 Mercedes diesel (I don't mind this anymore to be honest)
- Front suspension issues. Conclusion: Bad control arms
- Rear Suspension Issues
- Every since I had the new transmission replaced, serious grinding in 2nd gear through the winter, no TSB.
- Performed the TSB, only made things worse.


I have about 12,500 miles and for the most part I learned to live with the crappy tranny. Before the fluid, the transmission was FLAWLESS in 80+ weather. I mean, perfect smooth shifting just like it was the day I bought it (besides the missing gear). Anything under 80 and it was grinding. With the new TSB fluid, it made things for me so much worse. I can feel everything, like putting the shifter in a bucket full of rocks and shifting. Sometimes you will get a good shift, sometimes you will get a rock stuck feeling to it. Even if it's 100F like it was last week. Frustrating? Very much so.

I decided to stop by the dealership yesterday and let them know that they never fixed my rear suspension issue. If I go over any smaller bump or rough road patch with rear wheels, I get a chirping sound coming from the back. It was really annoying and I had multiple friends confirm this sound. It almost sounds like my Shaker 1000 isn't tightened so it moves around making chirps. But it's bolted down very tight. I also just wanted them to duplicate the MT82 grinding/rough shifting so I can have it noted again on my paperwork. Please keep in mind that this is my 4th time taking it in. I have already filed a lemon law but it takes a long time to process it. The more evidence I get, the better the case. I was provided with a rental car at $40 a day and I was told if they couldn't duplicate the issue, I would pay for it. Seemed a bit strange since I ALWAYS get a vehicle from them for free since I have a bumper to bumper extended warranty for 100k miles. No biggie, I said fine.

I got a call back, stating that neither the chirp nor the rough shifting could be duplicated. I had to come back tomorrow morning (this morning) and drive with the shop foreman. I was a bit furious since I had to take off work in the morning to attend to this useless meeting. I meet up with the guy and it's nothing like the foreman I know. I worked for this dealership for 7 years doing financial work. It was a new Service Manager and he wanted to drive my car. I agreed and off we went. At first, this guy didn't even know how to drive a manual car. He almost rammed it into a pole thinking he was in reverse. As soon as he shifted I heard the clunking from transmission and grind in the 2nd gear. He chose to ignore it and said "that's normal". As we drove around I could hear the grinding in 2nd and 3rd as he shifted. I told him my situation and that this is my 2nd transmission and that it used to be "butter smooth". He dismissed my claims saying this transmission has had problems for years. I told him the MT82 is a new model used in 5.0 and he just ignored that as well stating that it was "the same stuff used in previous models, even his 2007 mustang". I chose to ignore that comment and moved on. Throughout the ride, he just kept saying it was a normal characteristic that a lot of owners complain about but that's just how the mustang is. When I told him that a lot of people are praising the transmission as the smoothest ever (even I confirmed this to him since mine used to be like that) he said "everyone has a different opinion what is smooth". By the end of the ride, I knew this guy was an idiot and he wouldn't help me.

Trying to duplicate the rear chirp was rough. He basically tried to abuse my car and I didn't like it at all. He went over a speed bump at 25-30 miles and hour. I was like wtf are you doing? He got the chirp alright.

Once we got back into the dealership, he told the adviser that there was nothing they could do. There is grinding but he doesn't think it's anything abnormal that can be fixed. He also stated that the chirp could be ANYTHING and that they can't try and locate where the problem is coming from. When I expressed concern over this, they said it was a "sports car" and that's that. I said, isn't the purpose of suspension not to make those type of noises and they just kept going about how hard it is to track what it is and where it's coming from.

This is what they wrote on my service report:

Concern: 2-3-4 GEARS GRIND, 4TH GEAR RATTLE AT HIGH SPEED, GRINDING WORSE WHEN SHIFTING 1ST INTO 2ND IN A TURN

THERE'S A CHIRP IN REAR END WHEN GOING OVER BUMPS AT 25 MPH+

Cause: NONE FOUND

Correction: SERVICE MANAGER DID DUPLICATE THE SOUND WITH CUSTOMER BUT AFTER HAVING NEW TRANSMISSION FIT AND NOISE IS STILL THERE, NO FURTHER REPAIRS ARE AVAILABLE. (What new transmission?)

I was basically told to call Ford and lemon law my car. Lucky for me I guess, I didn't pay for the rental. They abused my car and added 60 miles on the odometer. They probably abused the crap out of it too since the Manager tried to rev it high and speed "wow these 5.0s are fun cars"

Idiots. Oh, and I also started noticing transmission whine in 4th gear like I have a supercharger. Thanks, new fluid. Well, that's how my morning went.Hope yours is going better. :D
 

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thats bs. i hope everything gets resolved for you. good luck.:bigthumbsup
 

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I was basically told to call Ford and lemon law my car. Lucky for me I guess, I didn't pay for the rental. They abused my car and added 60 miles on the odometer. They probably abused the crap out of it too since the Manager tried to rev it high and speed "wow these 5.0s are fun cars"

Idiots. Oh, and I also started noticing transmission whine in 4th gear like I have a supercharger. Thanks, new fluid. Well, that's how my morning went.Hope yours is going better. :D
At least you can drive yours. I have to carpool to work most days leaving my $40,000 car in the garage... while still being responsible and making payments on it.

Sorry you had to join the club. I just don't understand the logic to this. Does Ford not understand the concept of "creating promoters"? If they can't fix it... and so many owners on this forum claim their cars are fantastic... why don't they just replace your car instead of making you jump through hoops and hire an attorney.

Hell, in my case, after all the mess, I drove to my dealer and sitting there on the lot was a car IDENTICAL TO MINE... COLOR, OPTIONS, ALL... only with an automatic. I asked the dealer, my salesman, the service manager, and customer care (who all acknowledged the issues with my car) if they would just swap it.

"No... they all do that"

I followed the instructions in the owners manual and contacted Customer Relations and asked politely to swap cars.

"No... your car doesn't qualify as a lemon... case closed"

If they DID swap cars... I would have been a promoter of the brand... and probably a customer for life. But, like you, they kicked me to the curb and said "SUE US!!!"

The part they fail to understand is that in the world of the internet, for every distractor they kick to the curb, they create dozens who scratch Ford off the list for fear of being treated the same way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I honestly don't care anymore. I just wanted to vent. You learn from your mistakes and you move on.
 

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What I really can't believe is the part where they would tell a customer that grinding when changing gears is 'normal'.

I hope it's a different kind of grinding than what I consider grinding. Because what I consider grinding is definitely NOT normal in any transmission.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
What I really can't believe is the part where they would tell a customer that grinding when changing gears is 'normal'.

I hope it's a different kind of grinding than what I consider grinding. Because what I consider grinding is definitely NOT normal in any transmission.
Any sort of grinding is unacceptable if you had a butter smooth shifting. Any. Mine has gotten worse over time, where I believe the syncro's don't match up anymore.
 

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OH SERVICE REPS__ we have a problem in aisle 4 !!!
 

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A few years ago I bought a new $30,000 boat . At 11 hours the hull cracked . The factory replaced the hull and at the 5 hour mark the new hull started cracking at the same place .
The factory didn't hesitate, they bought back the whole boat, minus the trailer for the ful amount .
I didn't have to jump through any hoops or need a lawyer and this company is alot smaller than Ford .
I hope it works out for you .
 

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The part they fail to understand is that in the world of the internet, for every distractor they kick to the curb, they create dozens who scratch Ford off the list for fear of being treated the same way.
This is definitely true. I was thinking about trading my V6 for a 5.0L but have since dismissed the idea. My car doesn't have any problems and it seems the 5.0L is more likely to have MT-82 issues, oil guzzling problems, engine ticks, suspension issues, etc. Not to mention it seems like ten 5.0's are lemoned for every 3.7L, despite the fact Ford sells a lot more V6s.

I also stayed away from Ford's extended warranty & am glad I did. It seems pretty useless.
 

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As i have said before, my car is pretty darn good (its no RX8 shifting wise but it shifts like i would expect a mustang to shift) when its warm weather and its UNDRIVEABLE in the winter.

one of the reasons i refuse to drive it in winter is i am afraid the grinding that occurs will result in repeated metal on metal until it ends up like Jmateros car...undriveable all year long. I am just happy it runs when its warm but i wont dare drive it once cool weather hits (for fear of tearing it up)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
As i have said before, my car is pretty darn good (its no RX8 shifting wise but it shifts like i would expect a mustang to shift) when its warm weather and its UNDRIVEABLE in the winter.

one of the reasons i refuse to drive it in winter is i am afraid the grinding that occurs will result in repeated metal on metal until it ends up like Jmateros car...undriveable all year long. I am just happy it runs when its warm but i wont dare drive it once cool weather hits (for fear of tearing it up)

I drove mine through the winter, hence the problems in summer now with the new lighter fluid. I think the teeth are all broken hence the "rough grind" part. It's a hit or a miss. Sad that we bought expensive cars so we can only drive them as seasonal cars. What's even worse is having the warranty and the dealership refusing to work on them, stating no fix available.
 

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Really sorry to hear about OP's problem. I hope everything works out. This kinda story really scares me about buying a Ford.
 

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Forums are natorious for highlighting all the bad. There are many cars working flawless that are not having all these issues. I for one can't say it's perfect but it's damn good and much better than many alternatives. When going high performance don't expect it to be ultra plush luxurious. I realize there are some ligitimate complaints out there but I would not hesitate to recommend the new 5.0 MT82 to my friends.
 

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I don't think anybody is saying the 5.0 is a bad car if you get a good one. The problem is if you don't. Lemon law is a PITA, costs money & time. All the while the car is un-drivable, yet Ford says its a normal characteristic. Who wants to roll the dice on that?
 

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Forums are natorious for highlighting all the bad.
To me, it's not that the bad happens that's the real problem, it's the lack of support from Ford that's the issue. Ford is saying that grinding sounds are normal for a manual transmission. Sorry, NO. Such a stance basically greatly lessons the worth of our warranties and that's highly significant. WTH are warranties for if not this kind of thing? Only complete failures where the car won't move at all are going to be warranted now?
 

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Hey there everyone,

I have been researching this issue for sometime now, and I think that I can offer at least a bit of information as to what is causing this issue and how I might be able to help a bit.

The Getrag gearbox uses a triple synchronizer set up, which consists of a inner cone ring, middle friction ring, and outer synchronizer ring. These rings are designed to work together to either speed up or slow down the gear depending on what is needed. ie either up shifting, or down shifting.

If for some reason the gear does not match up speed wise you get a grind as the operating sleeve makes contact with the gears dog ring. There are a couple of reasons why this can happen.

1) The gear oil does not have enough viscosity. A lot of synthetic oils as simply too slick and there is not enough friction generated quickly enough for the gear to match speed. We have seen this in the past with other similar Getrag synchronizer setups.

2) The clutch is not fully disengaging from the flywheel, which leaves the gear shafts to continue to spin even when the clutch is supposed to be disengaged. The synchronizer is not designed to work this way and again simply can not handle the work load and you get a grind.

From some of the pictures that I have seen regarding the actual damage done internally to the MT-82 transmission, I would say that these are the possible issues that need to be addressed. So the real question here is what can be done to correct this?

Well that is where things get a bit tricky. First of all there is a warranty issue to consider. While I know that Ford is not really going out of their way to correct this particular issue, there maybe others that would come up that would not be covered if they discovered that you had voided your warranty in some way.

The other issue is that if the damage is done, then it is done. The pictures that I have seen showed that several of the dog teeth on the gear face had been sheered away. This is caused when you pull too hard trying to get the car into gear and ran the operating sleeve into the dog ring while the gear was still spinning. If this has occurred then the dog ring will need to be replaced, at a minimum, and there could possibly be additional damage done internally from the pieces moving around the gearbox before they could be grabbed up by the internal magnet.

However, if the damage is minimal, then there may some fairly easy solutions available. The first one is obvious I would imagine. Replace the gear oil with a better solution, one that was designed to work with this type of synchronizer system. NOT SYNTHETIC, or at least not the ones currently being used. I do not wish to sound like I am promoting a particular oil, and I am not selling anything here, but if you would like a suggestion, PM me and we can talk at bit more about this.

The second solution would be to use a more aggressive friction ring to help increase the performance of this setup. This is what I may be able to offer to everyone in the future, but not currently, as I have yet to find a gearbox to diagnose and test on yet. There is a drawback to consider here with regard to this solution. Shifting will be a bit notchy, and may require a slightly quicker shift. Here is why this happens.

When you go to a more aggressive friction ring, the synchronizer will at time still not quite line up with the dog ring. The gear will be at the correct speed, but because the synchronizer is holding the gear with more force it will not allow the two pieces to easily slip into each other. You will not experience any grinding, but actual engagement maybe a bit notchy and a bit of pressure on the stick maybe needed to get the gear and operating sleeve to mesh up.

If this is a clutch issue, to where the pressure plate is not fully disengaging from the flywheel then there is another area that would need to be addressed.

The throw out bearing on this gearbox appears to be hydraulically actuated rather than moved via a release fork. If the TO bearing is not getting full throw then it is not completely disengaging the clutch, and this will certainly cause shifting issues. This could be something as simple as contaminated hydraulic fluid, or seal leak, or simply the wrong diameter Master Cylinder. There are a lot of possibilities for this one. I would check them all.

The easiest way that I can think of would be to turn the car off. Select 1st gear and make sure that it is fully engaged. Push the clutch in and hold it to the ground while starting the car. DO NOT RELEASE the clutch pedal. Let the car idle for a couple of seconds and see if you can smoothly engage 1st gear. Since you have not engaged the clutch since selecting 1st gear while the car was off, the gear shafts should not have moved and you should be able to smoothly select 1st gear.

You can also do this another way, both should work fine. With the car running and out of gear, push the clutch in and wait 5 seconds for any movement of the gear shafts to stop, try to select 1st gear as you normally would. There may be some resistance as the operating sleeve meshes up to the dog ring, but there should not be any grinding.

If you do hear grinding, then the issue here is inside the clutch and may not be an issue with the gearbox. This is not to say that there is not a problem with both however.

I really hope that this information is at least a bit helpful. I would really like to try to find a solution for everyone on this, as when it works correctly the Getrag units are typically some of the best shifting gearboxes around.

Feel free to PM me any questions you might have.

Erik Johnson
 
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