adjusting valves

Shawn, That's strange, no compression unless you set them at "O" lash.

This first thing that jumps out are
-Collapsed Lifters
-You have Solid lifters and not hydraulic
-Not at base circle of cam lobe when adjusting the lifter

Have you thought of adjusting them while the engine is running? its a little messy but a very common method. You could cut out the top of an old valve cover giving access to the lifter adjustment and use that to avoid a mess while its running to adjust your lifters

I agree with Rick; if you have working hydraulic lifters then they should be set beyond zero lash for the lifters to work as designed. However, if you are adjusting them without the engine running you have no idea where 'zero lash' really might be.

To minimize lifter noise as the engine runs the amount of oil in a hydraulic lifter adjusts itself to maintain zero lash. Its not the same amount of oil at idle as it is at higher RPMs nor, necessarily, the amount when the engine isn't running. They work by balancing a small, calibrated leakage of oil with the amount of oil pumped back into them under the engine's 55 psi oil pressure. Every time they open a valve a small amount of oil is pushed out of the lifter which has to be refilled. The refill rate is fixed by the oil pressure while the oil leakage depends upon how many times, and how fast it pushes open a valve. The whole thing depends upon oil temperature as well since viscosity and flow rates in and out change with temperature. None of that process is happening on a non-running engine.

Without running there is no oil pressure to put more oil into an over-adjusted lifter so you will just 'adjust' back to, and then X turns beyond the incorrect setting you had to start with. Each time you try it you will be collapsing the lifter plunger further and further into its bore. Fortunately, the engines allow a large range of (mis)adjustment before there is a noticeable affect on how the engine runs. If a hydraulic lifter in good order is adjusted cold the oil will also hardly leak at all because its so viscous. That could hold your valves open and cause zero measured compression as you reported.

Adjusting them on a warm running engine takes away all those problems and starts you off with a fully extended (oil filled and clattering) lifter which is how you define the true zero lash. The reason for turning them slowly that final 3/4 turn is to allow the warm oil to leak out of the lifter; otherwise you will be holding the valve open (little compression) and that cylinder won't fire until the lifter leaks down. The +3/4 turn (Ford spec has varied from 1 1/2 to 3/4 turns) is to make sure that you start out with the plunger deep enough into the bore so that you never run out of self-adjustment range in either direction as the amount of lifter oil varies up and down when the engine runs at its various speeds.

ok Rick and Ivy, I know its strange have never had one like this before. the lifters are rhoads ive used them for years and love them. the rockers are Harland sharp gold series. heres how I did it.
1 spin engine over to get oil coming out the push rods so the lifter is pumped up
2 I go in firing order
3 on the compression stroke with piston all the way up and both valves closed I adjust
4 repeat for all eight

now I spin the push rod to I cant anymore, also cant wiggle rocker arm. im calling that zero lash. at that I still have 145 on the compression if I give get a 1/2 turn I get nothing.

ivy im trying not to do it running I got new paint every where and I make way to much of a mess.

I haven't started it since I set it got rad out to do some touch up will have it back in tonite and running so I can set the carb

snow here and going to alignment shop on Monday be the end of a 7 year project.

Without the engine running when you back off the nut the lifter stays collapsed (except for the flimsy spring inside) and by your method you will never find the spot that is zero lash which is when the lifter is full of oil and its plunger is at the top of its stroke. In order to not have the push rod turn means you are crammed way too far down on the collapsed lifter and it may well be bottomed. That would easily explain why going further holds the valve open. With that adjustment you don't have a hydraulic lifter.

The shop manual doesn't say to turn the nut down until the push rod won't turn. It says 'just remove all the push rod to rocker arm clearance' which means when the push rod is lightly touching the top of the plunger. Then go 3/4 turn beyond that. Rotating the push rod is only one method you might use to determine that spot but not the only method: '...rotating and/or moving the push rod...'. Concentrate more on vertical movement in the push rod and forget about it being hard to turn; it likely will turn pretty easily if well oiled. You will probably even be able to push it down but that would be against the spring inside the lifter.

With the factory idle speed of 500 (for a C4) there is hardly any oil spillage with the valve cover off. I don't use anything fancy, just an old rag on the exhaust manifold while adjusting. Its not like brake fluid, even if some splashes out its not going to damage the paint. The mechanical clatter will easily tell you when you go above zero lash.

Shawn, I know you understand Ivy's response and explanation. You should also keep in mind that you are using Rhoads lifters which will "leak down" quicker than a conventional hydraulic lifter so you need to get the RPM's up when adjusting these. Rhoads lifters are designed for higher rev engine and cam profiles for higher RPM's.

I know you say you just painted the engine bay area and don't want to mess it up but if you cut the top out of an old valve cover so you can adjust it under RPM's, you should be fine. If you really want to adjust it with the crank static, then when your at the bottom of the lob base, loosen the rocker. Push down on the push rod into the lifter to make sure it springs back and is not collapsed. screw the rocker down by hand until the push rod touches the rocker and there is no play (zero lash) aside from the lifter spring. (make sure you can still push the push rod down into the lifter). Turn the polylock another 3/4 turn max for preload and set the lock (set screw).

The engine running method is really the better way to go.

Hello Shawn,
I know you are getting ready to get the car out and running
but I gotta agree - the best way to adjust the valves is
with the motor running.

As the guys are telling you - - the oil doesn't go all over the place
it dribbles - -BUT - if you get an old valve cover - -cut the tops
off and it keeps all the oil in the motor.
I would even say to buy a set on e-bay for about $30.00
and cut the top off.

I am thinking this will be an issue unless you adjust with the motor
running.
I know this will hold you up a bit - -but in the long run it will
be worth it.
Heck - check if there is a garage around that may have an
old valve cover - you really only need one. Or try a local salvage
yard.
Gotta trust us on this one - -I think you will be happy if you do it this way - otherwise - you run the risk of loosing power, premature wear etc.

Best of Luck my friend

Print Dad

ok after some time and a big mess later I got them adjusted. I back them off to they rattled and then tighten them to the engine stumble which was about 3/4 turn then back them out halfway between the two. engine now runs smooth and tachs up easily. I load a video on my gallery of it running, I was still setting the new carb and its 20 degrees out. thank you for the help Rick and Ivy.
ps lost about 1/2 qt of oil on the floor, spent two hours cleaning the mess :heha:

Another thought when the dust settles on your project,...
If the valves are set too tight, vacuum will be less, compared to being set too loose. Obviously, a "hotter" cam will make less vac than a stock cam.
When all is complete, do a vac check and compare with the grinder's specs. It'll provide an indication of the settings.
Good luck .....

kenash said:

Another thought when the dust settles on your project,...
If the valves are set too tight, vacuum will be less, compared to being set too loose. Obviously, a "hotter" cam will make less vac than a stock cam.
When all is complete, do a vac check and compare with the grinder's specs. It'll provide an indication of the settings.
Good luck .....

Click to expand...

thanks Ken my cam is not that hot, two steps up from stock, and I don't have anything using vacuum but that a good point you have. need to get a gauge to test just to have a reference, for future issues.

sp66stang said:

thanks Ken my cam is not that hot, two steps up from stock, and I don't have anything using vacuum but that a good point you have. need to get a gauge to test just to have a reference, for future issues.

Click to expand...

Hi,
The vac gauge will be a valuable tool for future diagnostics. One should be in every mechanic's war chest.
All the best for a great start.