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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all,
I’m looking at S197 in my area, it’s a 2012 manual with 110k (mostly highway to/from work) on the clock.
Original owner who is an older gentleman who did not beat on it, and the only mods he did was GT500 muffler, bama tune (has the tuner and recently tuned back to stock), and a cai.
It’s been serviced since day one by the dealership every 10k miles with a semi-synthetic blend.
I’ve been doing a lot of reading on the gen1 Coyotes and possible problems with the #8 cylinders.
My areas of concern are of course the bama tune (which he said just made it a little peppier). Also using semi-synthetic every 10k miles. I’m a proponent of every 3-5k oil changes and using full synthetic, and that’s what I do to my Corvettes.

I test drove it with him for about 20 minutes, ran flawlessly, shifting was butter smooth in every gear.

With its history are there any red flags that any of would pick up on or potentially be concerned with?

Thank you all in advance for any & all insight!
Jon
 

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No red flags that I can see, except yeah 10K oil changes with semi is less than what I would do (I would do same as you but stretch the mileage out to about 7K or whenever the oil change reminder says it is time)

Bama tune probably didn't do any damage. However if it has a CAI that requires a tune, it won't run right with the factory tune. Most CAI's do require a tune; I believe Air Raid and Roush do have no-tune-required models.

Pre-pandemic price probably would have been maybe $15K ish? If it's under $20K, it's probably a decent deal.
 

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Well, at least it seems like it was longer drives, which helps burn out the condensation in crankcase through PCV
(which hopefully extended the life of oil a bit). I still do 3K on dino and 5K on full synthetic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well, at least it seems like it was longer drives, which helps burn out the condensation in crankcase through PCV (which hopefully extended the life of oil a bit). I still do 3K on dino and 5K on full synthetic.
I’m disappointed I didn’t get to check the fluids when it was cold, the guy was generous enough to meet me 30 miles from his house so I wouldn’t have to drive so far to look at the car. No oil catch can either, but that will be the first mod I do to it if I buy it.
 

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Using semi-synthetic for 10k miles is a bit long to go between oil changes imo. That interval did keep the warranty intact but I think that's a stretch using only semi-synthetic oil. However, if the car was mostly a highway commuter that ran at a certain RPM for extended periods then it's easier on the engine than more city or stop/go driving.
Every 3k miles is unnecessary on a modern engine unless you're using cheap conventional oil but 5k-7.5k miles is a good general rule of thumb for an oil change with at least semi-synthetic. The 2014 owner's manual(it'll be the same for 2012) says you can go up to 7.5k to 10k miles with regular engine duty but it should be noted that Ford puts a semi-synthetic oil in at the factory.
Castrol Edge also recommends for up to 10k miles but that's a full synthetic therefore I only change my oil every 10k miles on my 4 cylinder daily driver but with my Mustangs I always change the oil sooner than that.
JBert is right with the CAI probably needing a tune to not throw any codes and make the engine run correctly. Beware that Bama isn't known for their dependable tunes. Lots of complaints are on this forum about Bama.
If the guy still has the original Ford air intake then I would make sure that you get it from him. The aftermarket CAI is a pointless mod anyway as it does absolutely nothing on an engine with an otherwise stock induction system.
The only thing I would look out for is to make sure that every electronic function in the car works since the cowls in the 2005-14 Mustangs are noted to clog with dirt/debris especially if parked outside where it will accumulate more. If the cowl ever filled with water and then ran into the hvac system it would have likely overflowed onto the SJB(smart junction box which is just another name for a BCM or GEM module) and that would cause electrical problems from then on due to corrosion on the SJB's pins/connections/boards.
Also, ask if the coolant was ever flushed/changed. A brake fluid flush will be due as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Using semi-synthetic for 10k miles is a bit long to go between oil changes imo. That interval did keep the warranty intact but I think that's a stretch using only semi-synthetic oil. However, if the car was mostly a highway commuter that ran at a certain RPM for extended periods then it's easier on the engine than more city or stop/go driving.
Every 3k miles is unnecessary on a modern engine unless you're using cheap conventional oil but 5k-7.5k miles is a good general rule of thumb for an oil change with at least semi-synthetic. The 2014 owner's manual(it'll be the same for 2012) says you can go up to 7.5k to 10k miles with regular engine duty but it should be noted that Ford puts a semi-synthetic oil in at the factory.
Castrol Edge also recommends for up to 10k miles but that's a full synthetic therefore I only change my oil every 10k miles on my 4 cylinder daily driver but with my Mustangs I always change the oil sooner than that.
JBert is right with the CAI probably needing a tune to not throw any codes and make the engine run correctly. Beware that Bama isn't known for their dependable tunes. Lots of complaints are on this forum about Bama.
If the guy still has the original Ford air intake then I would make sure that you get it from him. The aftermarket CAI is a pointless mod anyway as it does absolutely nothing on an engine with an otherwise stock induction system.
The only thing I would look out for is to make sure that every electronic function in the car works since the cowls in the 2005-14 Mustangs are noted to clog with dirt/debris especially if parked outside where it will accumulate more. If the cowl ever filled with water and then ran into the hvac system it would have likely overflowed onto the SJB(smart junction box which is just another name for a BCM or GEM module) and that would cause electrical problems from then on due to corrosion on the SJB's pins/connections/boards.
Also, ask if the coolant was ever flushed/changed. A brake fluid flush will be due as well.
Thank you!
I know the coolant has been changed our recently, not sure about brake fluid but that’s something I can take care of with my handy-dandy Harbor Freight air vac bleeder.
The oil change intervals does concern me.
Should I get it, what oil do you (or anyone) recommend I go with?
My Corvettes were Mobil1, same with my Honda. My race bikes (road racing & MX) we’re all Amsoil.
 

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This sure sounds to me like you may have found a nice gem.

If they vehicle has been driven by a mature adult, I would have no worries about oil change intervals.

That being said, I would DARN sure want to rack it and perform a very detailed undercarriage, brake system and suspension inspection.

I would also inquire about the transmission history. It should have had at LEAST one if not to clutch replacements by now.

BEST WISHES!!!!!
 
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I'm sure the engine is fine.
As long as the oil meets the Ford WSS-M2C945-A spec and it's 5w20 then it's mostly just brand preference. If it were a Track Pack car then it would take 5w50 with a different spec(apparently only because it would be assumed to see race track duty) but most good oils out there will probably meet both specs. Synthetic is highly recommended but that's what you use anyway. Mobil 1, Castrol Edge, Valvoline(they have no catchy name for their synthetic), etc. are all fine.
Agreed with Andy to have it inspected at a shop to be thorough.
However, if an older guy drove it then it may very well be on its original clutch and still have plenty of life left on it. It all depends on how it was driven. Some people are hard on clutches and clutch life can be gone in as little as 50k miles or less. Other people can go 150k+ miles on a clutch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This sure sounds to me like you may have found a nice gem.

If they vehicle has been driven by a mature adult, I would have no worries about oil change intervals.

That being said, I would DARN sure want to rack it and perform a very detailed undercarriage, brake system and suspension inspection.

I would also inquire about the transmission history. It should have had at LEAST one if not to clutch replacements by now.

BEST WISHES!!!!!
1-2 clutches? YIKES
The owner knows how to be gentle on the clutch, it’s shows. It’s butter smooth in every gear.
it’s due for an oil change so that would be my first priority. If/when I pick it up I’ll have an hour and a half drive home, so I’ll probably stop by the local ford dealership and knock out an oil change for piece of mind driving home.
Then switch to Mobil1 synthetic.
 

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I’m disappointed I didn’t get to check the fluids when it was cold, the guy was generous enough to meet me 30 miles from his house so I wouldn’t have to drive so far to look at the car. No oil catch can either, but that will be the first mod I do to it if I buy it.
Back in the day I always liked to watch the exh on cold start, to see if it needed valve seals.
Overall, I don't think that is as much an issue as it used to be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Just wanted to update you all.

I ended up walking away from the deal. I spoke with the owner last night over the phone and he was open and honest in saying that he never checked the oil in between changes, so while on the phone with him he checked and told me it was pretty low. That threw up red flags for me. If it's low now and still had a couple thousand miles before his next 10k mile oil change, and if this is consistent pattern of running low on oil between changes, so i have to ask myself how many miles throughout the course of ten years has that car been starved of adequate oil? Also he did not have a oil catch can installed, which would've been my first mod for the car.

I'm hoping the potential for a bad engine due to oil starvation is very slim, i just don't want to be on the wrong side of the deal if it ends up being the case.

Otherwise it's a true gem as stated by AndyEckel above, in all other regards. So i'm pretty bummed about it.
 

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Well, perhaps not the end of the story we were all rooting for, but I gotta say I applaud you purchasing discipline and due diligence.

Best wishes going forward,
Andy
 
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Burning or leaking a little oil is pretty normal for most any higher mileage engine. The concern would depend on how much burns or leaks. That engine has plenty of reserve oil just in case the level gets low and pretty much all modern engines have oil level sensors anyway to warn you if it gets to a point of concern. That includes that 5.0 coyote engine. It would have never gotten low enough to starve the engine of oil since the light apparently never even came on being that he never checked the oil level ever.
Not having an oil catch can is really not any kind of concern nor is it indicative of anything. I would ask him how low the oil is or have him send you a pic of the dipstick reading on level ground. Even a quart low will be very noticeable on the dipstick. If it burns 1 quart every 8k miles with over 100k miles on it that's not bad at all. I would say that you're panicking for no reason here.
Many cars burn lots of oil right out of the factory. I remember a few years ago some Subarus and I think it was Porsches had a massive oil burning problem where you would have to add so much oil that it would consume an entire oil change worth of oil before the next oil change was even due.
 

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Old man owns a car that's been serviced by the dealer from day one and basically highway cruised and you're suspicious? Good luck on finding a better scenario on another 10 year old car.
When he said it was low, was it still in the normal range on the dip stick? Just about every 10 year old car needs topped off now and then.
Idk. I just don't know what you're looking for in a 10 year old 5.0 mustang. I don't think the majority of them will be that well cared for and maintained.
Call him back. Low ball him if that's how you feel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Old man owns a car that's been serviced by the dealer from day one and basically highway cruised and you're suspicious? Good luck on finding a better scenario on another 10 year old car.
When he said it was low, was it still in the normal range on the dip stick? Just about every 10 year old car needs topped off now and then.
Idk. I just don't know what you're looking for in a 10 year old 5.0 mustang. I don't think the majority of them will be that well cared for and maintained.
Call him back. Low ball him if that's how you feel.
The other item I did not mention is that the last few years the car was serviced by a Toyota dealership, not a Ford. Not sure why and wondering if they even used the right oil weight.
Which also means nothing else has been done to it since day one outside of oil changes. No brakes, brake fluid, rear diff, tranny oil, etc. So really it hasn't been kept up according to spec.
Just oil changes every 10k with semi-synthetic.
 

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There's no way that he's on original brakes at 110k miles. At about 50k miles your front brakes are used up. So he's at least had one set of fronts done and probably two. I find that rear discs can wear even more than fronts on some cars but it depends on the vehicle. They're also not going to be original. You already said that it had a coolant flush too so this car has been serviced.
Any dealer will generally service another brand car especially if you're their customer and they do repairs on trade ins all the time. Manual trans gear oil/fluid will not need to be changed for a long time. 150k is the recommended mileage for that.
 

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There's a lot here that doesn't add up. My 2012 manual has 72K on it, bone stock except for an x-brace (its a convertible) and upgraded stuts/shocks. I'm going to need brakes again next spring, rears need to get done first. I change the oil every 3K (overkill, yes and I use full synth) because I want this engine to last as long as I do (I'm 58). It might have been wise to walk away from this one.
 

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just curious, how much was he asking and where is it located?

asking for a friend ;)
 
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There's no way that he's on original brakes at 110k miles. At about 50k miles your front brakes are used up. So he's at least had one set of fronts done and probably two. I find that rear discs can wear even more than fronts on some cars but it depends on the vehicle. They're also not going to be original. You already said that it had a coolant flush too so this car has been serviced.
Any dealer will generally service another brand car especially if you're their customer and they do repairs on trade ins all the time. Manual trans gear oil/fluid will not need to be changed for a long time. 150k is the recommended mileage for that.
Maybe the Brembo cars are different with regard to brake wear? My ‘13 has 78K on it and I’ve yet to replace the brake pads at either end. I inspect them every 5K when I rotate the tires, but they still seem to have plenty of “meat” left.

I think manual vs. automatic makes a big difference. Not much engine braking with an auto so the brakes get a lot more use.


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Maybe the Brembo cars are different with regard to brake wear? My ‘13 has 78K on it and I’ve yet to replace the brake pads at either end. I inspect them every 5K when I rotate the tires, but they still seem to have plenty of “meat” left.

I think manual vs. automatic makes a big difference. Not much engine braking with an auto so the brakes get a lot more use.
If equipped with Brembo brakes they're much larger than the originals so I would guess they would last longer than a non Brembo car would. The OP didn't say it was a Brembo equipped car though.
just curious, how much was he asking and where is it located?

asking for a friend ;)
He's in the Jacksonville area in Florida so the car is near there. Probably too far for those like us up in the northeast but if interested in the car then I'd do a craigslist search or a search on one of many online cars for sale sites in that area. This car sounds like it might be a good deal if it's priced right.
 
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