[88gt306]

So I had made my mind up on which heads I was goin with, but I was doing more research and I'm not sure again. So let me ask y'all.. Afr 165s w/ 58cc's or tfs tw 170 w/ 61cc's? I've did the research on the flow charts and out of the box the flow like ~2 cfm's different at .500 if I'm not mistaken. The extra compression of the afr's look nice, since I'm in a high compression craze right now, but I've heard that it's tf>afr... Thoughts, ideas, and opinions are all wanted.

 

[jcardoso91LX]

I say Trick Flow because thats what i have. But I'm biased. lol. you are going to get a pretty diverse set of answers for this question.

 

[88gt306]

Which is exPected. I just want to see what all I get though.

 

[Pearson88GT]

Brodix........................

 

[need4spd90]

flow numbers arent everything..but..look close at those charts..AFR tests their heads with a 4.060" bore..this unshrouds the valves and "tweaks" the results..you cant expect to see those flow numbers on your 4.030" bore

id take the TFS 170s anyday over the 165's..the 170's are more comparable to the AFR 185..


"The TFS heads have shorter and straighter ports, with the cross sectional area being larger than even the AFR 185 heads."

i dont even know why they make the 165,its really worthless IMO..that whole "heads too big for a small cube motor" nonsense,is just that..nonsense

Look at the LS and LSX if you want to see examples of engines belting out power with REAL head flow.
LS = 346 cubic inches and a 230 cc head STOCK and making 450 rwhp with a cam swap and a good tune.

Tell me again how big heads on small cubes don't work??

 

[2Manystangs]

get the trick flows and some long tube headers

 

[88gt306]

Can I mill the trickflows down to 58cc's? Or do they have a optional 58cc head. Sorry, I would normally have checked myself but I hate trying to research on my iPhone unless I have to. I want more compression period. I want to have around 10.0:1 or so. I want to change my cam and head to more closely match my intake. Ed Curtis custom grind and some way better heads. I would love a 6200 rpm shift point or something. Vibrant93's car from YouTube has really inspired me...daydreaming... But yea. I want as much out of my 306 as possible without goin back into the bottom end or touching the intake. Ideas?? And yep I got the money.

 

[need4spd90]

sure you can mill them...i'd send the intake to Tmoss or get a Holley intake and send that to Tmoss lol..ed curtis will put you where you want to be..you need rpm's to make big power on a small cube motor

 

[JMertins]

im biased towards the TFS since i have run the 170s and now run the 190's. the only problem i see you running into is PTV because of the offset valves, especially if you go with a custom grind with a taller lift. I have flat top pistons designed for twisted wedge heads so the valve relieves are offset to match the heads. that is something for you to consider too.

 

[88gt306]

Yep. That's what I keep reading so I want more Rpms. I really don't care about drivability and all that. Or mpg for that matter. I gave up on that when I bought the car. I really hope I can pull off the mill/ tfs 170s/ custom grind all at the same time. Hopefully if I provide him all of what it has, he could grind me within the limitations.


Jmertins, what made you go to the 190's over the 170's?

 

[88gt306]

Fack.... I really don't wanna go into the bottom end no more. Now that he mentioned it, I would be pissed if I had PTV clearance problems with those canted valves. :frustrated:... Afr 185s anybody?

It would be more down time, more money, to get it broke back down, with different pistons. Money that I don't wanna waste.

 

[need4spd90]

those arent canted valves..higher lift alone has nothing to do with PTV clearance..you can make a .480 lift cam smash the pistons,and a .550 lift cam clear..its all in the duration/valve events...

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/foru...-1993-mustang-5-0-valve_piston_clearance2.gif

the valve angle on the tfs heads actually provides more clearance in most cases

 

[88gt306]

Wait I heard that with a 185 on a 4.030 bore, they are bad because of the valve being too big. Let's brainstorm folks :headscratch:

 

[88gt306]

Yea Joe I remember it's the duration and not lift.

 

[need4spd90]

look at the graph above as an example..you can add all the lift you wnat, and it'll never come close to the piston..

but add more duration on the exhaust side..boom..

intake valve opens sooner..boom

 

[cindys_sn95]

kyle, what forged flat tops do you have?

 

[88gt306]

Well offset*... I knew what I meant and I'm sure y'all did too ... Since they are TWISTED wedge's.

 

[need4spd90]

Wait I heard that with a 185 on a 4.030 bore, they are bad because of the valve being too big. Let's brainstorm folks :headscratch:

probably part of the reason afr does their advertised flow testing on a 4.060" bore,like i said,to unshroud the valves

"The problem with the stock valve placement heads(AFR), is valve shrouding in the chamber and in the bore. The TFS TW valve location is rotated to the center of the bore. This helps out a lot in the shrouding department. The standard valve angle also directs the air into the side of the bore. Where as the TFS TW head have a different angle, that directs the air charge in a more straight shot into the cylinder bore.""

 

[88gt306]

Lol sn95, I couldn't even tell you. All I know is I dropped a valve , put a hole in my piston, the valve broke, and put a hole in the water jacket in the head. I took it to a shop in Dallas, referred by a renowned engine builder, and told him what I wanted put back into the bottom end. He asked me what kind of pistons I wanted and took me to a room full of them. He said if I wanted to, he would drop some forged flat tops in for free just in case I wanted to run nitrous. Then I told him about my concern about PTV clearance of the e-cam with the 1.7s and if it wasn't enough, to fly cut them. After he got it together I had the heads valve job'd and cleaned up and had him go ahead and check. He said I had plenty of clearance. So I took my pre-oiled short block and went from there. So I really couldn't tell you what brand. I was just trying to hurry and get it together before I deployed. Which I did, but now I wish I hadn't hurried it.


And yea Joe I understand the duration and lift thing. That's why I said if he can grind me out a cam to not worry about it.

 

[need4spd90]

if you're going to have him grind you a cam,you're best off to call him,tell him what you have,tell him what you want, and he'll tell you what you might need to best make it work for you