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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well I'm hopping that there are some ford techs that could shine some light on the 5.0 engine knocking or ticking issue. I'm not looking to crucifiy anyone with any info given but would like clearity on what the findings are. If its a main bearing clearence issue, how much oil presuure drop is being seen, if any, or if its a rod issue. Is the noise lessening, changine in sound or anything during a cylinder load test? What findings are you guys seeing? Can it be upper heads or is it in the short block area?mystery.gif
 

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I doubt you find any mech engineers that will comment on this publicly...

-Matt
 

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There are several threads on the "tick" issue.
 

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Not saying this was your cause, but a lot of dealers on oil changes somehow forget that these motors take 8 quarts of oil instead of the standard 6. It happened to me on my 2nd oil change. Luckily I double checked their work and the dealership immediately sent the other 2 missing quarts hand delivered to my house within 30 minutes. I wonder now if this could be one of the causes of the excessive main bearing wear that's happening to ticking engines... FYI
 

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The 'ignition' tick is caused by some AC tension belt, I believe. Though, its quite the operation to fix this.
 

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From what I've read and seen it's the main bearings in the crank allowing or forcing the crank to move around. Probably due to or either bad bearings to begin with or oil starvation to that area. Ford is keeping their lips closed for sure on this one.
 

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This was just posted today by "buggywhips" over at svtperformance on the exact same issue.

"I developed the tick that sounded like the BBQ ignitor at around 5K miles after my first oil change. After several trips back and forth to the dealer to replicate the problem they couldn't pinpoint what was wrong and wanted to tear down the engine as directed by Ford. That solution didn't sit well with me so I got Ford's Customer Service involved which expedited things a bit. Before the dealer could get a Ford Engineer to come see my car my wife and I moved from CO to GA. After "interviewing" several GA dealerships I found one that seemed to be interested in working with me and my CO dealership. With the Ford Engineer present we removed the oil filter (about 2k miles on the oil and filter) to cut it open. We found an excess of bearing material in the oil and the crankshaft end play was also out of spec. A new long block was installed. Total down time for the car was 8.5 weeks including the time in CO and GA.

I had all the mods in my signature on the car except the Paxton and both the Ford Engineer and the dealership worked with me. I feel what made the most difference in getting the motor replaced was being extremely nice while clearly making my wishes known, lots of patience, and most of all persistence.

The new engine feels stronger than my first one ever did I'm happy to say that both dealerships bent over backwards to help. Even with the Paxton on they know the car and when I pull in the Service Manager steps out to greet me and tries to have my car seen immediately. Still no issues with getting things done under warranty. "
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
This was just posted today by "buggywhips" over at svtperformance on the exact same issue.

"I developed the tick that sounded like the BBQ ignitor at around 5K miles after my first oil change. After several trips back and forth to the dealer to replicate the problem they couldn't pinpoint what was wrong and wanted to tear down the engine as directed by Ford. That solution didn't sit well with me so I got Ford's Customer Service involved which expedited things a bit. Before the dealer could get a Ford Engineer to come see my car my wife and I moved from CO to GA. After "interviewing" several GA dealerships I found one that seemed to be interested in working with me and my CO dealership. With the Ford Engineer present we removed the oil filter (about 2k miles on the oil and filter) to cut it open. We found an excess of bearing material in the oil and the crankshaft end play was also out of spec. A new long block was installed. Total down time for the car was 8.5 weeks including the time in CO and GA.

I had all the mods in my signature on the car except the Paxton and both the Ford Engineer and the dealership worked with me. I feel what made the most difference in getting the motor replaced was being extremely nice while clearly making my wishes known, lots of patience, and most of all persistence.

The new engine feels stronger than my first one ever did I'm happy to say that both dealerships bent over backwards to help. Even with the Paxton on they know the car and when I pull in the Service Manager steps out to greet me and tries to have my car seen immediately. Still no issues with getting things done under warranty. "
Thank you very very much for your story and points that shines some light to the issue, but the quest now is why. Bad crackshafts causing premature failures? Bad bearings less superior manufacturing? Or clearances aren't being checked properly at the plant. My last 07' ZO6 had valve failures but that was inconsistent. There where fixes that did give better out come but those where not given by Chevrolet, but by outside performance shops. But all LS7 are had built, and all clearances are manually checked. Maybe this is the fault. There are only two types of bearings on the engine Mains, and rods. I checked my rods, but haven't the mains. Hate to do this but if thats what it takes so be it. Bummer per the manual which by the way doesn't give torques for the rods and mains it calls for the bolts to be replaced. What a joke. Anyhow if anyone has torque sequence for these item help would be much appreciated.
 

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I developed this tick on a new purchased 2014 with track pack completely stock and very conservatively driven immediately after my first oil change at 9700 miles at the dealer. In my case and a large number of others this seems to be a common factor. I have read every thread on this. To go as far as replacing an engine seems absurd to me. All I did was change the oil per Ford specs. Can it really be that no one at ford has a real answer to this short of trial and error and if you are "lucky" replacing your engine? All I did was change my oil!!!!!
 

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I developed this tick on a new purchased 2014 with track pack completely stock and very conservatively driven immediately after my first oil change at 9700 miles at the dealer. In my case and a large number of others this seems to be a common factor. I have read every thread on this. To go as far as replacing an engine seems absurd to me. All I did was change the oil per Ford specs. Can it really be that no one at ford has a real answer to this short of trial and error and if you are "lucky" replacing your engine? All I did was change my oil!!!!!
Wow, you waited till almost 10,000 miles for first oil change...? Damn, I'm anal and changed it at 800 miles. LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I developed this tick on a new purchased 2014 with track pack completely stock and very conservatively driven immediately after my first oil change at 9700 miles at the dealer. In my case and a large number of others this seems to be a common factor. I have read every thread on this. To go as far as replacing an engine seems absurd to me. All I did was change the oil per Ford specs. Can it really be that no one at ford has a real answer to this short of trial and error and if you are "lucky" replacing your engine? All I did was change my oil!!!!!
Really if you read about oils, the problem with it, and this isn't coming from me but a chemical engineer I know. Oil doesn't break down it becomes contaminated, thats why in between oils recommended life intervals, its advised for the filter to be replaced so that some of the contaminants can be trapped. But its also note that the oils contamination becomes so high that a change is due. On turbine engine at work, the oil isn't changed for years, but the filters are. We use synthetic. The oil seams like water. I still believe that ford is installing crappy parts. Like I've said a transmission built in China? What gives!!!! Next thing will see is cars being off loaded off docks from ships that came from China. A sad day that will be!!!
 

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And to add to this there is the debate on the reduction of zinc in todays oils. Zinc provides a layer of protection between metel to metal parts. Look up ZDDP. Engines builders have been using this for years for break in of solid lifter cams. I would say either improper machining of the block around the mains and or bad bearings being the main culprit. Im not claiming to be an expert by any means.
 

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I wonder if it could be progressed with oil changes when you fire the motor up dry, and it runs for 5 seconds or so before the filter is filled and full oil flow is returned to the engine.

I do my own oil changes. This is the first car I've ever bothered to fill the filter on before it was installed, and I change it at 3,500 mi with Ford filters and oil. So far, no issues. I'm in my fourth oil change and ~12,500 miles. And I've never heard a tap.
 

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I wonder if it could be progressed with oil changes when you fire the motor up dry, and it runs for 5 seconds or so before the filter is filled and full oil flow is returned to the engine.

I do my own oil changes. This is the first car I've ever bothered to fill the filter on before it was installed, and I change it at 3,500 mi with Ford filters and oil. So far, no issues. I'm in my fourth oil change and ~12,500 miles. And I've never heard a tap.
You can prime the oil in the motor by holding brake and pressing the accelerator pedal all the way down while cranking the engine. When you let off the accelerator it starts right up. If I have not driven the car for week plus I will do this. Could do this just after changing the oil too. FYI ;)
 

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The OP asked about the "ticking or knocking". I got this "bbq" tick and I just changed my oil per Ford specs. I just changed my oil!!!!!! Why would just an oil change - no other factors, mods, etc caused this for those of us that just did that and suddenly developed the tick? Many upon first oil change.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Got some info on a possible cause for the knocking issue. Now this is not in all cases, but it is in most I guess. Ford is calling it cylinder distortion. To put it simply the piston is rocking ever so slightly inside the bore. Now is it a machining problem or bad pistons who knows. Ford does say and of course they would say this. That it will not harm engine life to have the noise, but that excessive noise should be look at asap! Their fix replace the block, the short block that is. On very loud engines that aluminium is being found during oil analyses, is do to the piston wearing excessively. Some where saying is the main bearings, but that just didn't make sense to me. Is this the true findings I don't know but, it came from a ford tech who's name I will not disclose.
 

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Got some info on a possible cause for the knocking issue. Now this is not in all cases, but it is in most I guess. Ford is calling it cylinder distortion. To put it simply the piston is rocking ever so slightly inside the bore. Now is it a machining problem or bad pistons who knows. Ford does say and of course they would say this. That it will not harm engine life to have the noise, but that excessive noise should be look at asap! Their fix replace the block, the short block that is. On very loud engines that aluminium is being found during oil analyses, is do to the piston wearing excessively. Some where saying is the main bearings, but that just didn't make sense to me. Is this the true findings I don't know but, it came from a ford tech who's name I will not disclose.
Where did you find this out?

I did see one of the tick cum replacement threads the OP said one of the cylinders was out of round. I just got my first UOA back from 3300 miles on Redline 5w20. I know that is a really conservative interval, but I just wanted to see how it came out. With the redline it did the oil change ticking a lot less than with motorcraft or mobil 1, and the UOA showed low wear numbers even accounting for the short 3300 mile change interval. Aluminum was 2 to the universal average of 5 and Iron was 5 to the average of 20. Copper was 1 to average of 5, and lead, tin were 0. I replaced the redline with Amsoil SS 5w20. It ticked a lot more this oil change than it did with the redline, so I'll get a UOA when I'm done with this oil. It has for the most part stopped making the noise except right around 2000 rpm cruising in 1st or 2nd (anything else and the wind noise is too loud to hear) you'll get a good 3 ticks in succession.

Here is the UOA:



The bit that makes no sense to me, is if this is the piston bouncing in the cylinder, why would it go away after a few hundred/thousand miles only to reappear with the next oil change?

Are you making a distinction between those who get this sound with new oil which then goes away and those for whom the noise is constant no matter how old the oil is?
 

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Good info guys. As stated cannot figure out how an oil change causes potentially out of round cylinder to start making noise. Is this the same as piston slap? Very strange...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Good info guys. As stated cannot figure out how an oil change causes potentially out of round cylinder to start making noise. Is this the same as piston slap? Very strange...
Good question inded. But keep in mind that all parts have a coating of oil of some sort, there is clearence between the piston skirt and the cylinder wall which to some extent uses oil as a lubrican of course, the rings do their job to keep the combustion chamber gases and the oil in crankcase separate. In other words the second scraper ring and oil control ring keep oil in the lower section of the block while keeping oil between the piston skirt and cylinder walls. If this is anything to some extent like a transmission automatic trans that is. Old fluid creates a sealing factor new fluid being highly detergent washes that seal and problems occur.
 
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