[stangGT350]

Need to know if there is anyone out there with a Vortech and Detroit Rockers on there 05+ GT..And if so, which grind did you have installed..N/A or supercharger..I recently had a set of Detroits installed in my 05, which is also equiped with a Vortech, and was told I needed the N/A grind instead of the supercharger grind and that the supercharger grind was for a twin screw setup..I'm wondering..Just looking for some input..I purchased these cams from a respectable retailer and had them do the install. Need a second opinion..Thanks to all.......
___________________________________________________
2005 GT
Vortech supercharger, Detroit Rocker cams, Pypes long tube headers, Pypes high flow cats and H pipe, 4.10's, flowmaster American Thunder. And lots of other stuff......

 

[SilverGTvert]

Did brenspeed give you that information? I do not have the rocker cams but have talked to them about installing them in the past. The recommendation was blower grind cams.

 

[hubkap]

Is it just me or are the specs on Brenspeed's cams nowhere to be found on their website??

I wouldn't install cams in my engine without knowing the specs if paid to do so...no matter what testimonials, dynos, and marketing hype they published.

My question to them: what's the big secret??

 

[Brenspeed]

The specs are proprietary and are not being released. We are not the only company to do such a thing and picking a camshaft for a 3V and picking a camshaft for an old pushrod 5.0 are two different stories when you throw variable cam timing into the picture. In the end its an NSR camshaft so you can only get so radical with the grind and ALL NSR Comp Camshafts are ground off the same core to show you how similar some of the grinds can be. The supercharged grind and the N/A grind are VERY similar, one just has a different lope seperation than the other. The N/A grind does make a little better low end torque than the supercharged grind on a centrifugal style of supercharger (5ftlbs), but the peak gains are a little higher (5rwhp). Its a give or take honestly. If you have an centrifugal supercharger and you would enjoy a little more low end torque, then I would recommend the N/A grind, if you are about the peak HP number, then I would recommend the S/C cams. This is why we recommend the S/C grind to customers with twin screw superchargers where low end torque isnt an issue. You can put both sets of cams in the same car and they will make within 5rwhp of each other every time, so the lope seperation really doesnt effect the end result as much as you think it might. Hope this helps clear everything up!

 

[hubkap]

The specs are proprietary and are not being released. We are not the only company to do such a thing

Actually you are. Lunati, Crane, FRPP, BBR, Comp Cams, etc all publish their 3v cam specs freely.

Hope this helps clear everything up!

Not a bit...

Again, some of us wouldn't dare buy something as important as a set of cams without having a clue as to what they are. For guys who care nothing other than for their cars to go bumpity-bump at idle it sounds like a different story.

 

[Matt1230]

You need to find out he LSA (lobe seperation angle) out on the cams. If it is too low, then you can lose a lot of power. Cams with a higher LSA are better for a supercharger. If it is lower and there is overlap, boost leaks directly out your exhaust. This could result in a lot more than 5 hp lost. It all depends though, you could be loosing 2-3 pound of boost straight out your exhaust.

 

[Brenspeed]

Actually you are. Lunati, Crane, FRPP, BBR, Comp Cams, etc all publish their 3v cam specs freely.



Not a bit...

Again, some of us wouldn't dare buy something as important as a set of cams without having a clue as to what they are. For guys who care nothing other than for their cars to go bumpity-bump at idle it sounds like a different story.

Again, we are not the only company that does not release their camshaft specs. For example, if you call JDM and ask them for the specs on their Sterling grind (one of their custom grind camshafts), they will not not release this information either. They spent the money, time and R&D to come up with a grind that works and they dont want anyone to steal it.

The cams are .450 lift and No Spring, No Phaser limiter Required. We carry the full Comp cam product line and they do publish all of their camshaft specs, so if not having the specs is an issue for you, there are plenty of other options out there. We even sell the Hot Rod cams if you are specifically looking for lope. Comp and ourselves actually developed the first ever NSR camshaft way back in 2006 so I would hope most people trust our judgement when it comes to camshaft grinds. Unfortunately in this day and age companies unlike us will tend to copy off of something else and invest no money in R&D and this hurts the companies that are spending the money to develop the product. But the good news is we carry a full line of comp camshafts and all specs can be found on www.compcams.com for those customers that can understand them and feel they have the experience to choose the correct camshaft for their 3V mustang.

 

[hubkap]

You need to find out he LSA (lobe seperation angle) out on the cams. If it is too low, then you can lose a lot of power. Cams with a higher LSA are better for a supercharger. If it is lower and there is overlap, boost leaks directly out your exhaust. This could result in a lot more than 5 hp lost. It all depends though, you could be loosing 2-3 pound of boost straight out your exhaust.

There's some truth to that, a good reason to know the specs :bigthumbsup

To Brenspeed: I already have Comp's 127350's. Custom grinds are a different story and if a customer wants custom grinds I wouldn't tell the world what I made for that customer either.

All the other cam manufacturers I mentioned spent tons of time and money on R&D yet still publish the spec cards?

I already know your Detroit Rockers are .450 lift, NSR, no phaser mods, etc. What I'm getting at for the purposes of this thread - what sets the NA grind apart from the SC grind? Must be nothing if it's only a 5 hp difference, otherwise there would be big differences in lobe separation, exhaust duration, etc.

If companies were really out to copy somebody's grinds, it most likely would be Comp Cams', not yours. No offense.

 

[Brenspeed]

Our Detroit Rocker cams are made by Comp Cams. The difference in the LSA on the N/A and S/C grinds differ by a total of 2, so that goes to show you how much lope seperation matters when you have full VCT (5rwhp difference). Some camshafts differ quite a bit in their N/A cam S/C LSAs but not ours because we saw similar gains and a better drivability with this particular setup. We do a LOT of camshaft R&D for Comp (currently testing their Stage 3 Coyote camshafts), so we get to see what works and what does. In the end everyone is entitled to their own opinion and take this information for whatever you think its worth. I'm done beating a dead horse over and over again...

 

[redruder]

I have a question this as to the not publishing question. What is stoping one your competitors from just orering a set of your cams, checking the specs, then duplicating them? :deadhorse:I just had to hit that horse 1 more time, who could resist. Not just that but it looks like a crotch shot.

 

[Matt1230]

Our Detroit Rocker cams are made by Comp Cams. The difference in the LSA on the N/A and S/C grinds differ by a total of 2, so that goes to show you how much lope seperation matters when you have full VCT (5rwhp difference). Some camshafts differ quite a bit in their N/A cam S/C LSAs but not ours because we saw similar gains and a better drivability with this particular setup. We do a LOT of camshaft R&D for Comp (currently testing their Stage 3 Coyote camshafts), so we get to see what works and what does. In the end everyone is entitled to their own opinion and take this information for whatever you think its worth. I'm done beating a dead horse over and over again...

Well have you tested out the Mutha thumpers? I believe their LSA is 109 degrees, and I am pretty sure, too lazy to look up, but their s/c grind is around 115 or so. (a little more than 2 difference) Like I said, I don't know what cams are in the car, but if you guys do all that testing, I am sure you guys could figure out the solution. I was just suggesting my 2 cents because I have had a lot of problems and don't want people to waste all the money and time I did on it... I am not trying to argue against you or prove you wrong.

I asked in the other thread as well, but does he have LT headers? I don't know how drastic his power loss was, but I lost 11 hp and 21 torque because I don't have LT Headers which is a very noticeable difference.

 

[Brenspeed]

We will deal with it when it happens, but it hasnt happened yet and hopefully it doesnt and other companies do their own R&D. :deadhorse: We'll go ahead and hit it some more for you :winks

 

[hubkap]

Our Detroit Rocker cams are made by Comp Cams. The difference in the LSA on the N/A and S/C grinds differ by a total of 2, so that goes to show you how much lope seperation matters when you have full VCT (5rwhp difference). Some camshafts differ quite a bit in their N/A cam S/C LSAs but not ours because we saw similar gains and a better drivability with this particular setup. We do a LOT of camshaft R&D for Comp (currently testing their Stage 3 Coyote camshafts), so we get to see what works and what does. In the end everyone is entitled to their own opinion and take this information for whatever you think its worth. I'm done beating a dead horse over and over again...

I have not made or written a single opinion on this thread. Here are the facts:

- equivalent Comp Cam's NA grinds have a LSA of 109 degrees, mine have 116.5. You say yours have a difference of 2 between NA and SC grinds.

- you say you do a lot of camshaft R&D for them. I guess that means they're unable to do their own?

- you haven't beaten a dead horse "over and over again" - just refused to answer any relevant or direct questions. I guess beating around the bush could be considered beating a dead horse though.

If you're done, so am I - as far as recommending Brenspeed for anything, which I used to do. I'm sure you'll still sell a lot of Brenspeed branded cams to the unknowledgable, who care about nothing except a lopey idle.

Good day.

 

[Brenspeed]

Well have you tested out the Mutha thumpers? I believe their LSA is 109 degrees, and I am pretty sure, too lazy to look up, but their s/c grind is around 115 or so. (a little more than 2 difference) Like I said, I don't know what cams are in the car, but if you guys do all that testing, I am sure you guys could figure out the solution. I was just suggesting my 2 cents because I have had a lot of problems and don't want people to waste all the money and time I did on it... I am not trying to argue against you or prove you wrong.

I asked in the other thread as well, but does he have LT headers? I don't know how drastic his power loss was, but I lost 11 hp and 21 torque because I don't have LT Headers which is a very noticeable difference.

No harm taken by your post whatsoever. Unfortunately Comp doesnt make a S/C (Blower Grind) version of the Thumpr cams, just the Thumprs (127010) and MuthaThumprs (127020), so its not comparing apples to apples. Yes, the customer does have long tube headers so he is getting the full gains of the camshaft as well.

 

[Brenspeed]

I have not made or written a single opinion on this thread. Here are the facts:

- equivalent Comp Cam's NA grinds have a LSA of 109 degrees, mine have 116.5. You say yours have a difference of 2 between NA and SC grinds.

- you say you do a lot of camshaft R&D for them. I guess that means they're unable to do their own?

- you haven't beaten a dead horse "over and over again" - just refused to answer any relevant or direct questions. I guess beating around the bush could be considered beating a dead horse though.

If you're done, so am I - as far as recommending Brenspeed for anything, which I used to do. I'm sure you'll still sell a lot of Brenspeed branded cams to the unknowledgable, who care about nothing except a lopey idle.

Good day.

You arent comparing apples to apples here. Yes, your comparison on the 127300 vs the 127350 does hold true, but this isnt the case with our particular camshaft where the difference in LSA only differs by 2. The cams do exactly what they were designed to do, they make great power, the have a nice lopey idle, they are NSR (so the installation is cheap and easy), and they provide great drivability. We are not trying to beat around the bush, but i dont know what else to tell you other than what i have without giving out the specs and thats not going to happen. We do a LOT of R&D for Comp and yes they do oursource a lot of their dyno testing and tuning results. They will actually be here this coming Monday and Tuesday testing out some of their new prototype Coyote camshafts. If you dont have anything to do, then you are more than welcome to come down and check it out.

 

[hubkap]

Yes, your comparison on the 127300 vs the 127350 does hold true, but this isnt the case with our particular camshaft where the difference in LSA only differs by 2. The cams do exactly what they were designed to do, they make great power, the have a nice lopey idle, they are NSR (so the installation is cheap and easy), and they provide great drivability. If you dont have anything to do, then you are more than welcome to come down and check it out.

I guess for the masses lopey idles and NSR are nice features but I just don't give a darn about those things so count me in the minority. :smilie

And thanks for the invite even though I've been harsh, I've always wanted to check your place out but am pretty stuck here in the DC area and only the guys at JPC touch my car (besides me of course). I have truckloads of horsepower with just little bitty 127350's and a smooth idle :bigthumbsup

Peace out.

 

[redruder]

I'm eyeballing the SPR blower cams myself either 127550 or 127650 and some LTs

 

[hubkap]

I'm eyeballing the SPR blower cams myself either 127550 or 127650 and some LTs

Are you kidding, or serious? I can't tell. Those are hardly streetable. I make outrageous power with 350's...but with those you'd have serious drivability issues!

 

[Matt1230]

Are you kidding, or serious? I can't tell. Those are hardly streetable. I make outrageous power with 350's...but with those you'd have serious drivability issues!

When you say "serious drivability issues" what exactly does that mean? I have the Mutha Thumper cams installed and apparently they are supposed to be impossible to drive on the street. I drive to work 5 miles every day in stop and go traffic. The only differences I have compared to the stock is it requires more throttle to get the car going, due to the stock 3.55s in it, and if you are under 1300 rpms, it sometimes bucks a little bit, but I just down shift if I am getting that low and have no problems with it. Everyone I talk to says I am supposed to have a very hard time driving under 3000 rpms and I just want to know what that is supposed to entail.

 

[hubkap]

When you say "serious drivability issues" what exactly does that mean? I have the Mutha Thumper cams installed and apparently they are supposed to be impossible to drive on the street. I drive to work 5 miles every day in stop and go traffic. The only differences I have compared to the stock is it requires more throttle to get the car going, due to the stock 3.55s in it, and if you are under 1300 rpms, it sometimes bucks a little bit, but I just down shift if I am getting that low and have no problems with it. Everyone I talk to says I am supposed to have a very hard time driving under 3000 rpms and I just want to know what that is supposed to entail.

127550's and 650's are pure drag race cams, no similarities to Mutha Thumpers at all.