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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone installed the BBK 62MM throttle body on their GT yet? If so what gains did you see and are you happy with the product. :?:

I am thinking about adding it to my car but would like some input before dropping the $265.00.

Thanks
 

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Most of us cannot benefit from them, you need a very hard working blower (mid teens PSI) and everything assosiated with that (fuel flow mainly) or a very well built shortblock with ALL the goodies on-top! P&P Heads, Cams, Manifold, Fuel Pump / Fuel System, Injectors, and of course the bolt-ons, CAI, LT Headers, open exhaust, with a tune...!! We're talking a +400 HP NA car!

The stock block (and heads) CANNOT move that air through, there is not even enough suction to get that much air through your CAI! With some work on the heads and blocks (P&P, valves, cams, pistons) you might get the air in but then you need fuel (see above...)

Just my .02 Euro Cents and what I've been told and seen in one install (on a blown car!)
 

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Yea... I thought it looked cool... easy and should open things up for POWER!

Little did I think about what was really going on... mostly that the stock TB not at all is the bottle neck so why pay for a bigger one if it's not needed...

I'm trying to remember the brand and numbers on the one installed on a ProCharger blown car but can't, I think power went from 446 to 449 and that can be dyno, day, tune, etc... differnaces...

There is also a mag article where they (as usual) have been twisting and turning the numbers to show a gain that is there but not really... there is a 10 HP gain but somewhere in the mid register, not at the peak.... and that too can be dyno, tune, air quality, etc. related...
 

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I thought someone out in performance land measured a vacuum right behind the throttle body with a CIA installed. That would tell me that the TB was somewhat of a bottleneck.

Of course, I'll never be able to find where I read that again.
 

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That is probably true... that is true even with a larger intake as the suction from the motor is creating that vacuum... That's the sound you hear from powerful (NA) cars when they rev, the TB opening up and the motor sucking that air down... A pretty good pitch though if you sell OS TBs... :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
KJ

I read about it in a magazine as well. Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords October issue to be exact They installed the BBK 62mm TB and CAI and claim a total gain of 27hp and 38ft lbs of torque with the mods.

They also split the two out and claim that hey got 16hp and 28ft lbs of torque before they added the CAI.

Im gonna take your advice and hold off on spending the cash at this point I'll wait to here from folks as they install it on their ride first. :laughlitt

Thanks again for the advice.
 

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Yea, that's where it was... and without a tune right? We all know how well that works... So with a tune it would have been a 40 RWHP gain! I hope that most here understand that's not gonna happend!

MMFF normally don't even have the HP TQ table so you can look where the max gain was... All I want to know is the peak gain! Oh, they had a dyno chart, a funny one where they only show total (TB+CAI) gain, the stock pull was AFTER the mod dynos at a higher temp, right? Also if no tune was done, nor needed, why would they do a bunch of dyno pulls?

I know a writer and like him but their job is to make products look good... notice how the companies with ads are the ones you read about...?? But, big BUT! They are all honest with good honest dyno pulls... it's just how they then put it on paper... not lying just trying to make it look as good and impressive as possible...
 

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Okay... looked up the mag...

Run 2 with both parts was best; 293. I guess after that they tried to tune it away from lean and to better power but we all know that doesn't work... you can get away from lean but no more power... so they didn't write about dyno pulls 3-6...

Pull 7 at 7 degrees warmer showed 267 RWHP, on a STOCK GT?? That's the higest I've seen at any temp!

Looks like the biggest gain is from 4-5200 RPM, may I guess that's were they eye balled a 16 HP gain for the TB on an other run?

Okay... I'm done here with my conspiracy theory... I'm sure it does something, but not 16 RWHPs! :rolleyes:
 

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If there's not a vacuum behind the throttle body, your engine's not running!!!

now, level of vacuum, I suppose, could mean something....

All the dyno numbers (like all numeric/graph data) are subject to interpretation. One of the reasons I'm more interested in how the car feels after a mod. Not the popular measure, I know, and way too subjective, but....I don't drive the car on a dyno, I drive it on the road.
Example: How do you quantify (nail numbers to) all the gains from a tune? Sure, bigger HP gains are possible elsewhere, but what else has THAT big an effect on how it drives?

Okay, moving on....

How about TB spacers?
Discuss!
 

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I should have been more specific. It was a higher level of vacuum then should have been present. It's moot anyway because I still can't find where I read it.
 

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My main concern is with a CAI and tune is the throttle lag completely gone? They claimed that the bigger TB also helped with throttle lag. True or BS? THE BOMB
 

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A'little book learnin' about engine vacuum................

Manifold vacuum, in an internal combustion engine is the difference in air pressure between the engine's intake manifold and earths atmosphere.

Manifold vacuum is an effect of restriction through a throttle body or carb of an engine. It is a measure of the amount of restriction of airflow through the engine, and hence of the unused power capacity in the engine.

Theoretically @ WOT and balls to the wall, you want about a .4 vacuum reading.
 

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THE BOMB said:
My main concern is with a CAI and tune is the throttle lag completely gone? They claimed that the bigger TB also helped with throttle lag. True or BS? THE BOMB
From what I have read the answer is yes. Aparently the TB are using larger gears which have more teeth and allow the thottle to be opened faster for the same given position sensor output. Speaking w/the local tuning people, based on fords software, and a problem I had brought up before about the RPM's staying high or reving slightly during shifting w/a manual, you get either lag or the high RPM's. Either apparently can be dialed out but not completely eliminated. Tuner said as you adjust one, it screws with the other to some point.

I'm spending the money just to get rid any lag once the tune out the RPM deal.
 

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So... as noted above (again) the tune is key!

The more open TB is not good for anything untill your motor can deal with that air!

Gearing to open a larger TB quicker might bring it 'back' to the time it takes the smaller stock TB to open.

Now, if you get all this air to flow through your CAI and new TB, and maybe even our stock manifolds... what's next? What about your opening and closing Charge Motion Plates? Heads, cylinders...?? and what are you going to do with the air there?

With a tune you'll make it run okay (fuel, timing, etc.), but the gains WILL be disapointing... I would not even try it without a tune! And with it I'm sure the gain would be hard to read, maybe 5 HPs...!?!
 

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Unlike carbs, many tuners believe there is no such thing as 'too much ' throttle body. Evidenced by 5.7 sized engines using 1000/1200 cfm TB on relatively moderate HP motors. The current LS2 uses a 90mm TB.


The real question as you stated is, what are the gains? If the engine can use the add'l air, fuel can be added and powere made. That's the beauty of FI over a carb.
I would think the charge plates would have to come out to maximize any gains.

62 mm dual TB is about 1000 cfm.
 

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My P&P Heads intake valves flow about 200 cfm... so with half of them full open (or close to) I'll need over 1000 cfm... so do I need an even larger TB? Oh, and I don't have the CMP either... all open system...

I will also put a SC on there helping push cold air through those two 'tiny' stock holes... will I need a larger TB then?

Answer is NO, it will not do me any good, maybe 5-10 with tunes if I'm lucky, you with stock heads and motors less!

I've seen one install and following tunes and dyno run. I have asked many in the know-how (because I refuse(d?) to accept it) and it all leads to this one same conclusion... No need for most applications!
 
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