[whisperer]

So maybe there is no such thing. Maybe the question is better put as "what tuner do you have and would you recommend it?"

I'm building up a 05 4.0 car for short track and Auto X and would like better control of the slushy shifting and pull good torque out of it with race gas, or as much as a tuner will do.

 

[MustangLife]

So maybe there is no such thing. Maybe the question is better put as "what tuner do you have and would you recommend it?"

I'm building up a 05 4.0 car for short track and Auto X and would like better control of the slushy shifting and pull good torque out of it with race gas, or as much as a tuner will do.

I take it you have an automatic since you say you want to clean up shifting from a tune. Also race gas for a V6? Not sure race gas will do much for a stock V6. Tell us a little about your car. Are you stock or what mods do you have?

 

[JBert]

also are you asking about the tuner device or the tuner person?

 

[whisperer]

Tuner device. Obviously automatic or a tuner wouldn't change it. With race gas, 93-100 octane, a tuner can change parameters to extract way more power from an engine. This car is for Auto X and short track handling. V6 is better balanced and lighter. So has anybody got a tuner and likes it?

 

[MustangLife]

Tuner device. Obviously automatic or a tuner wouldn't change it. With race gas, 93-100 octane, a tuner can change parameters to extract way more power from an engine. This car is for Auto X and short track handling. V6 is better balanced and lighter. So has anybody got a tuner and likes it?

Just wanted to ask auto or manual as while you think it wouldn't need clarification I gotta say you would be surprised at the questions we get asked around here sometimes. haha

I see in your profile you are a as quoted from your profile a, "45 year professional Technician with Ford products". Surprised you aren't well connected with a tuner and device and all that. With that experience I would figure you would be telling us what to go with. ha That said though depending on price range and features you want there are laundry lists of handheld tuners. I don't think any are better than the others just the more features you want the more cost. More important than what device you pick is what tuner person/company you pick to be honest. I am not and you will find many on here are not a fan of the mail order tunes. I recommend finding a good shop and having a custom dyno tune. Much safer and will get the most power out of your car which sounds like what you are going for.

Oh and by the way welcome to AFM!

 

[whisperer]

I specialize in vintage Fords where tuning requires skill and experience, not a computer. If you were around those circles you would know who I am. I picked AFM because you have a V6 S197 forum, which is where I am and what I'm building for short track. I figured this forum would be packed with knowledgable, experienced guys building awesome V6 cars. Does anybody have a tuner and likes it?

 

[JBert]

Yes we use tuners and there are lots of threads on here about it; if you want to read-up, scan or search the threads.

The SCT tuners are the defacto standard -- X3 in the past, X4 in the more recent past, and I think they have some newer and "better" models now, but the good old X3/X4 still does most if not all of what needs to be done.

But someone still has to write the "tune" aka "program" for your car. The devices do come with built-in "canned" tunes, and some common adjustment options such as cold air intake, but they are known for not being very good and they might not match the modifications on your car, depending on what you have modified. So you need to decide who will write the tunes; and then pick a tuner that they like to use. There are some companies that do remote tuning, such as Bama (reputation has gone down hill lately), Steeda, also "Lito" (support@tudyno.com) but they generally focus on the V8's so I'm not sure about the V6. If I was in your shoes I think I would talk with them first and then select the tuner device based on their recommendations. Generally they use the SCT tuners but there might be some special needs for your particular car so I think it's worth the conversation.

 

[MustangLife]

I specialize in vintage Fords where tuning requires skill and experience, not a computer. If you were around those circles you would know who I am. I picked AFM because you have a V6 S197 forum, which is where I am and what I'm building for short track. I figured this forum would be packed with knowledgable, experienced guys building awesome V6 cars. Does anybody have a tuner and likes it?

Ahh makes sense! Yes everything has gone to sensors and computer tunes. Curse and blessing depending on the day. haha

I had a itsx turner by I think SCT is who makes it that plugged into the obd2 port and wirelessly connected to my phone or iPad. Had lots of readings and perimeters. If I were to go down the mail order tune route I would certainly consider it or one like it if there is a better one these days, but the itsx was best in it's time a few years back. I had the tunes by BAMA, but I wouldn't recommended them as they never could get my car running right and seems many others say the same more and more each day these days. I think most people say anything is better, but still no mail order tune will get your car dialed in just as tight as say a in person dyno tune can.

 

[pikapp]

My recommendation is to scower your area/region for a reputable-experienced tuning shop, that specializes in mustangs, S95, S197, etc. You can't beat a dyno tune and it gives the tuner lots of opportunities to be more precise and exact. Every engine is different, as I'm sure you know and as a result, each tune needs to be specific to that engine. You could also try to make contact with Ken Bjonnes at Palm Beach Dyno. Ken is one of the top mustang tuners in the country and has experience second to none. He could probably recommend someone/shop/tuner in your area or nearby.

 

[JBert]

and here is some free advice that you did not ask for, but I wish someone had given me about 5 years ago:

If you are going to get into autocross and road-track racing and you want to be competitive, consider buying a different car instead of putting money into the one you have. The S197 is big, heavy, and cumbersome by today's standards; plus with the V6 you are way down on power-to-weight ratio. Autocross definitely favors lighter and more nimble cars. On the road track you can make up for that with horsepower to some extent, but that V6 just ain't gonna do it.

My trajectory with road track went something like this: first it was a "bucket list" item, I just wanted to drive my Mustang as fast as I wanted on a track, just once. But I was hooked right away, it's like Lay's potato chips . . . so I started doing "track days" and SCCA Track Nights . . . at first I did not time my laps and it was all good fun. But then I wanted to see how I was doing; started timing my laps and taking track videos. Now the goal is to reduce those times. Yes driver skill is a big factor, but the car does matter too . . . so very quickly I was buying new tires, brakes, springs, struts . . . the list goes on. So then I decided to try SCCA "Time Trials" which is a stepping stone between track days and "real racing" -- they time your laps and rank you against comparable cars. So now those lap times really matter . . . and mine basically suck. My car is classed with much more capable cars, for example the later Mustang V8's that have 100 more horsepower. Also I am amazed at how fast VW Golfs, Honda Civic R's, and FRS/86 are these days. So now I am looking at spending a bunch more money on better tires and other things, on top of questioning my skills and needing more seat time.

If I had known then what I know now, I probably would have bought a Corvette or some other more track-capable car . . . or quit right away after I checked-off the bucket list..

So anyway, just be aware of this likely trajectory . . . if you can do it "just for fun" that's great, just don't time the laps! ;-)

 

[pikapp]

JBert, don't cut yourself or the mustang short. They can be made into awesome road course cars and can be as competitive as all the others in your class.

 

[MustangLife]

JBert, don't cut yourself or the mustang short. They can be made into awesome road course cars and can be as competitive as all the others in your class.

I think his point was while you can throw money at any car why not save some money and buy a car ready to go for what you want and have cash left over that you saved. Kinda like if you want a fully built all bolt ons and forced induction it is cheaper to buy the car already done than mod it out yourself. Though I think modding it myself and doing it overtime is half the fun isn't?

 

[pikapp]

Though I think modding it myself and doing it overtime is half the fun isn't?

Exactly. I suppose it would be cheaper, but watching YOUR car transform into something different, over time, is rewarding, exciting and educational. In 2007-2010 my car was a street/show car. 2011, we began the transformation, once we decided to get serious about the sport. It wasn't till 2018 the car was finally where we wanted/needed it to be in order to be competitive. As someone mentioned to me, its like riding a motorcycle, you don't just hop on the biggest and fastest out the gate, you build up to that.

 

[JBert]

JBert, don't cut yourself or the mustang short. They can be made into awesome road course cars and can be as competitive as all the others in your class.

thanks for the encouragement . . . if it isn't the car, I guess it's just me that sucks, LOL ;-) . . . I think I will start a new thread in the road racing section to discuss further

there is a S197 4.6 that runs the same track as me, and a full 10 seconds faster -- 1:22 versus my 1:32. The big difference seems to be tires (plus driver skill, no doubt) . . . he is running 315 RE71R's vs my 275 MPSS . . . I think the biggest thing with these cars, is they need a LOT of tire . . . so I'm looking at another $3K for a set of wheels and tires

I think his point was while you can throw money at any car . . . . Though I think modding it myself and doing it overtime is half the fun isn't?

yeah, that was my thinking . . . it would be more fun and more challenging to modify a less capable car to make it competitive with the bigger dollar cars out there on the track . . . but it hasn't really worked out that way so far, right now I am a bit frustrated with my lack of progress despite modest spending and a fair amount of "quality time" in the garage . . . but after I finish this post, I'm signing up for another track day to work on my skills!

sorry to the OP for the small tangent, back on subject

 

[pikapp]

thanks for the encouragement . . . if it isn't the car, I guess it's just me that sucks, LOL ;-) . . after I finish this post, I'm signing up for another track day to work on my skills!

There's no alternative to track time. More time = better times. This is not a cheap sport, so no frustrations needed, its all part of the sport. Once you feel you have the car competitive, keep working on the driver. While at the Nationals last year, my coach mentioned we (drivers) spend more time on street driving than road course driving, so we have habits that are not good habits for road course driving. Once you learn to shed some of those street driving habits, you'll do better at road course driving.....usually better said than done though, it takes track time....lots of it.

 

[whisperer]

No apology necessary, all real info is welcome by me. Thank you all for the tuner recommendations/issues. That's what I'm needing to know. I do have a really good dyno guy here that I've used a lot. Maybe I'll work with him a little on the Mustang later. Think I will buy a SCT X4/SF4 now. Apparently this is just the device to I/O the tunes, didn't realize I could buy the tunes separate from several different companies. OK cool.

Racing a V6 2005 Mustang; So I have been into various forms of racing for many years. My current/previous track/Auto X car is a fully stripped out 79 280 ZX with modified 2800ccengine. It is a 5 spd. I am running Goodyear racing slicks on it with Basset steel wheels, 10" rear and 8.5" front. Long list of other modifications. It's bad-ass and runs hard. Not really street legal even though it's licensed. Yes, I can drive.
The 2005 Mustang has 1200 more CC's, much better steering and suspension geometry, and frankly a much more active aftermarket. (The last S197 is not 10 years old yet). My Z is 41years old. I'm building the Mustang to be actually street legal so I don't have to trailer most times, and so I can have some fun just kicking around. So far all I've done is install 2016 GT 18" wheels with BFG Sport Comp-2's and some visual upgrades. Also working through stupid new-car electrical issues.

 

[MustangLife]

No apology necessary, all real info is welcome by me. Thank you all for the tuner recommendations/issues. That's what I'm needing to know. I do have a really good dyno guy here that I've used a lot. Maybe I'll work with him a little on the Mustang later. Think I will buy a SCT X4/SF4 now. Apparently this is just the device to I/O the tunes, didn't realize I could buy the tunes separate from several different companies. OK cool.

Racing a V6 2005 Mustang; So I have been into various forms of racing for many years. My current/previous track/Auto X car is a fully stripped out 79 280 ZX with modified 2800ccengine. It is a 5 spd. I am running Goodyear racing slicks on it with Basset steel wheels, 10" rear and 8.5" front. Long list of other modifications. It's bad-ass and runs hard. Not really street legal even though it's licensed. Yes, I can drive.
The 2005 Mustang has 1200 more CC's, much better steering and suspension geometry, and frankly a much more active aftermarket. (The last S197 is not 10 years old yet). My Z is 41years old. I'm building the Mustang to be actually street legal so I don't have to trailer most times, and so I can have some fun just kicking around. So far all I've done is install 2016 GT 18" wheels with BFG Sport Comp-2's and some visual upgrades. Also working through stupid new-car electrical issues.

The X4/SF4 is a great handheld, but the itsx I recommended can do everything the X4/SF4 and even more just to throw it out there.

Sounds like you got some track experience.

 

[145566]

Race gas- How much timing advance can the 4.0 take? I have no clue, but I’d be willing to bet not enough to where 100 octane would be beneficial and or required.
I don’t think you’d get much out of a tune really, other than transmission shift points and advancing the timing a little- aka a “93 octane tune.” Even with a slight timing advance it won’t add much power per dollar spent. Think about your “vintage tuning.” One adds better flowing cylinder heads that lets more air in so you “tune it” with a bigger carb so the fuel matches the air. It’s the same with EFI. But with your car I don’t think there are very many engine mods that will add enough air to where the “stock tune” can’t compensate for on its own.

Go for the throat. Add some boost. Then you’ll need a tune. As well as fuel injectors and “larger” fuel pump.

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[whisperer]

I definitely am considering boost in the future although maybe belt driven because it hits harder down low. Strangely (for me anyway) power is less of a problem than handling for Autocross and short track as the speeds are low enough where the gears are working. High speed needs power.
If I find I need massive ponies I would prob do a 500 hp Windsor swap 351. I’ve built several. I know, blasphemy but easy and cheap compatibly. Not now though, kinda want to run the 6.

 

[Skeet6]

Not now though, kinda want to run the 6.

Well, did you ever get out there and do it? Tell us about it!
Mike B