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What is your opinion on clutch-less shifting?

  • Bad, very bad, DONT DO IT!!!

    Votes: 140 77.8%
  • Good, as long as you know what your doing.

    Votes: 26 14.4%
  • It saves the clutch, but is more trouble than its worth.

    Votes: 11 6.1%
  • Its how they shifted them BEFORE clutches!

    Votes: 3 1.7%
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Discussion Starter #1
Obviously, it requires knowledge, practice, and skill, but when properly executed, is clutch-less shifting good, bad, or otherwise?
 

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The synchros are not meant to work with power being transferred through them, so you will be running the risk of drastically shortening their life. This really should only be done on a non synchronized trans or crash box designed to be shifted in that manner. You won't hear a grind unless you are way off, because the synchro will still be matching gear speeds. It's a common misconception that no grinding means you did ok. You'll never know you are off unless you are driving a non synchro trans, and in that case you will hear and feel it immediately.

When I drive a non synchro trans, I only use the clutch for starting and stopping. All other gears are shifted by floating it in and out at the correct ranges in between driveline load shifting from accel to coast.

Your typical passenger car trans is not set up to endure this. Synchros are wear items, and will wear out prematurely if they are forced to work against engine torque.
 

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Obviously, it is bad
 

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The synchros are not meant to work with power being transferred through them, so you will be running the risk of drastically shortening their life. This really should only be done on a non synchronized trans or crash box designed to be shifted in that manner. You won't hear a grind unless you are way off, because the synchro will still be matching gear speeds. It's a common misconception that no grinding means you did ok. You'll never know you are off unless you are driving a non synchro trans, and in that case you will hear and feel it immediately.

When I drive a non synchro trans, I only use the clutch for starting and stopping. All other gears are shifted by floating it in and out at the correct ranges in between driveline load shifting from accel to coast.

Your typical passenger car trans is not set up to endure this. Synchros are wear items, and will wear out prematurely if they are forced to work against engine torque.
^ could NOT have explained that any better!
Super fast way to burn out your syncros
 

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Before they had clutches? In over 100 years I don't think manual transmissions have been clutchless. Even paddle shifters still have clutches - they're just automated.
 

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I will come out of gear without clutching, but will pretty much always clutch to go back into a gear. For engaging gears, if it doesn't get sucked into gear, you're not close enough. When I engage without clutching, I basically poke at the shifter with the gentlest of nudges. If you're at the right RPM, it'll just slide right in. That method minimizes wear on the synchros if you're not right on (it'll still wear them quite a bit more than normal, though). This is why I very, very rarely do it.
 

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B-Unit

you are looking for shifter paddles? as what you describe is a different tranny..

beers
 

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Its more wear on the syncrhos to not use the clutch.

If all your shifts were 100% rev-matched 100% of the time, then you can do the no clutch thing. Otherwise, your just wearing on the syncrhos until the revs match and then the shifter falls in. not particularly good for anything in the drivetrain.
 

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I see no advantage to clutchless shifting. I figured it out on a motorcycle when I figured out how transmissions worked. Then I did it for real when I was in a friend's car and the clutch went out. But other than an emergency situation, I can't see how it buys you anything.
 

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You are forgetting one important question. Is it your car, or someone else's? I rarely use the clutch on the site trucks - Toyota Land Cruiser 70 series (google them). It is fun driving without a clutch, especially if they are beat on work trucks, you don't have to pay for the repairs, and you can always blame a driver for blowing the transmission. Also, I figure it is a good thing to know how to do in case you ever have to do it.

My own car? Use the clutch. Unless it is an 11 year old Nissan Altima getting traded in later that week.
 

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I drove 18 wheelers for 10 years and you used double clutch to shift. You could RPM match shift without clutching but if you where off even the slightest bit you wear the gear edges thus shortening the trans life. Synchros will wear even faster. Not recommended unless your lazy and have money for repairs.
 

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Lost my slave cylinder on a trip one time. Had to shift without the clutch to get home. Made it, but I also was planning to go through the transmission anyway. Cracked the third gear synchro.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
B-Unit

you are looking for shifter paddles? as what you describe is a different tranny..

beers
No no, what Im describing is shifting a regular manual transmission without using the clutch via rev matching.

Thank you everyone for your input. I wasn't doing it regularly, but had wondered if it was feasible as a wear save on the clutch.
 

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You are forgetting one important question. Is it your car, or someone else's? I rarely use the clutch on the site trucks - Toyota Land Cruiser 70 series (google them). It is fun driving without a clutch, especially if they are beat on work trucks, you don't have to pay for the repairs, and you can always blame a driver for blowing the transmission. Also, I figure it is a good thing to know how to do in case you ever have to do it.

My own car? Use the clutch. Unless it is an 11 year old Nissan Altima getting traded in later that week.
You must really respect your employer. I guess unforeseen repair costs don't trickle down to salaries, raises, bonuses, layoffs, etc. where you work like they do in other organizations. I'm sure it's fine...everyone does it right? Reminds me why I never buy a used car from a dealer. There's always some guy like you out there.
 

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You must really respect your employer. I guess unforeseen repair costs don't trickle down to salaries, raises, bonuses, layoffs, etc. where you work like they do in other organizations. I'm sure it's fine...everyone does it right? Reminds me why I never buy a used car from a dealer. There's always some guy like you out there.
+1

I have never done anything to a company car that I wouldn't do to my own. Not that I drive my own very conservatively or anything...

I think most employers would terminate an employee for willful abuse if they found out...I know I sure would!
 

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Commercial truck yes, car with synchros no.
 

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Do it and then go an whine about Ford having deffective manual transmissions...

Obviously the clutch pedal is there (and has been there forever in manual trans) for a reason...

Doing in on an emergency because the clutch blows is one thing. doing it just for the heck of it... its just stupid
 

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My truck driver buddy taught me how to do this in my 1976 Starfire. Since then I've done it in a 1975 Datsun 280Z, 1967 International Scout, 2000 Subaru Legacy, and most importantly the ???? right hand drive Jeep CJ with the leaky slave cylinder (1984 on Sumatra). Never broke anything and I never tore anything down to inspect for wear.

I just haven't had any interest in doing this in my 11GT. It's my first new car and I love it to much.
 
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