cobra heads & intake

So far as I am aware you would need of course the heads and intake manifold, but also timing cover and whatever timing parts that are specific to a 4V, fuel rails and sensors, engine wiring harness, 4V specific exhaust midpipe, pretty sure all of the front engine accessories like p/s and alt are different so you can go ahead n' add all that, and you will also want a set of aftermarket IMRC deletes so that your 2V pcm can run this engine.

And I doubt my list is complete, surely there's more that I'm just unaware of. Most who are familiar with 4V swaps will tell you that it is much more worthwhile to do a complete engine swap than it is to try and convert a 2V into a 4V.

rebuild

hello again...im looking for a little advise...im looking to rebuild my 99 4.6...a few years back a mechanic did an engine swap...due to the 98 engine spun a rod..so i bought a 99 4.6 engine...the mechanic did the engine swap but i havent put a tuner on it...the 99 engine has 140k...i have not had any problems out of the engine...but now im looking to get a little bit more ponies out of it...i was thinking of having the 99 engine bored and having the head ported...im not looking for a ton of ponies...im just looking to get around 300ish ...any advise is welcomed
thanks

For 300rw, I would skip the headwork and instead opt for cams and exhaust. Should get you pretty close to that goal.

I looked into this somewhat extensively a while back.... Worked PI heads, say like the ones MMR sells, go for roughly $1500. On a relatively stock n/a engine they are only worth 10-15 rwhp. Lotta money and work for those gains. TrickFlow heads (which by themself do make better gains, typically 20-30 rwhp from what I gather) you're looking at basically $2200, and to really "do it right" then figure cams as well - and now you're up to $3K just in parts. The upside to TF heads and cams though is you will definitely exceed 300 rwhp, probably more like 320-330.

My personal opinion is, especially if you plan on staying n/a is skip the heads (unless you have TF money) and go straight for a set of cams. Set of stage 2 cams, with new springs, retainers and (since you'll have it all apart) timing chain guides and tensioner will set you back about $1000, and with a good tune you'd be looking at about 290 rwhp on the optimistic side of things and certainly no less than 280 (unless you use the same dyno as Fordman777, lol). Much better bang for the buck, imo.

SoCal2V said:

For 300rw, I would skip the headwork and instead opt for cams and exhaust. Should get you pretty close to that goal.

I looked into this somewhat extensively a while back.... Worked PI heads, say like the ones MMR sells, go for roughly $1500. On a relatively stock n/a engine they are only worth 10-15 rwhp. Lotta money and work for those gains. TrickFlow heads (which by themself do make better gains, typically 20-30 rwhp from what I gather) you're looking at basically $2200, and to really "do it right" then figure cams as well - and now you're up to $3K just in parts. The upside to TF heads and cams though is you will definitely exceed 300 rwhp, probably more like 320-330.

My personal opinion is, especially if you plan on staying n/a is skip the heads (unless you have TF money) and go straight for a set of cams. Set of stage 2 cams, with new springs, retainers and (since you'll have it all apart) timing chain guides and tensioner will set you back about $1000, and with a good tune you'd be looking at about 290 rwhp on the optimistic side of things and certainly no less than 280 (unless you use the same dyno as Fordman777, lol). Much better bang for the buck, imo.

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I'm pretty much with SoCal on this. I was on a mustang dyno which simulates realistic drag. That drag can be adjusted. Going off my setup and my numbers you would be disappointed until you actually ran the car. I'll say that I have ran a few HCI LS1's and handled them well. A couple LS2 GTO's that I got by about a car or two on short pulls from a roll. Also a 99-01 cobra that I pulled pretty hard on. First run was an 04 GT with basic bolt ons...he didn't stand a chance. At a 35 roll to 80 I pulled about 6 cars on him.

I will add that on the TFS heads they will always outflow ported stock casting heads straight out of the box. Plus having other perks over the stock heads. However comparing the prices they just aren't worth it to me as far as bang for your buck unless running a big bore. That's just my personal opinion.

If you can find a Lincoln Mark VIII block or engine for a decent price I'd build that. The teksid blocks will save you about 70 ish lbs off the front end. There is a lot of info on this forum alone that can guide you to your power goals. Also Modular Head Shop "MHS" has some pretty good info in their FAQ section on their website.

thanks for the info fordman777 & SOCal2v...im not sure what my engine hp is at right now i havent had a chance to put it on a dyno...or have a tune done on it...the only aftermarket add ons it has..is a bbk CAI,shorty headers,magna flow exhaust with Xpipe..

so if i go with the stage 2 cams and exhaust...with a good tune i should be close to the 300...what exhaust would be a good one to run....

I gotta revise my numbers a little bit here, didn't realize what year car we were talking about (took for granted it was a '99+ PI engine car).

Taking a step back, your car is rated at 215hp, stock, which if I'm not mistaken works out to a typical dyno reading of around 190 at the tires. The later PI engines put about 220 - 230 to the tires depending on transmission.

With your current mods, my guesstimate is you are right around 200rw. Although your NPI heads don't flow as well as PI heads, the real choking point as I see it is your intake manifold. A PI manifold can be made to bolt on to your heads (do a little homework here - it's not a textbook perfect fit but many people before you have successfully made it work by using a small bit of rtv silicone to seal up the gaps) and would give about a 15 rwhp increase. Considering that it can be done in an afternoon with basic tools and for about $250 total, I see this as tremendous bang for the buck.

For your stated goal of 300 at the tires without a power adder this will require doing something with your heads. Your options for the most part are either a set of PI heads or have your current NPI's worked. In stock form, PI wins. But I have read that NPI heads can produce better flow numbers when worked vs. worked PI heads. Another "do your homework" thing there. As far as I know you can also use the PI cams (which have a higher lift, .550" vs .500") with NPI heads without issue. So regarding heads and cams in your situation there are a few different combinations or ways you could go with it, so based on overall costs and goals you really need to do some research here. I don't know that I or really anybody can give you an absolute best answer on that one because it depends heavily on what you can afford and what you want in the end - best advice is do what works best for YOU. Also consider that the work involved in a head swap is not for everyone; if paying a shop to do this then costs are gonna go up real quick - I don't know what kind of labor hours that work typically bills at but as a rough guess I would expect around 8 hours at whatever the going rate. So always factor in how much of this you are willing and able to do yourself; when you figure for shop labor some jobs might not seem worth it anymore.

As a general recommendation though I would say go with the full PI top end; probably the simplest way of going about it. With even stock PI heads (which will bump the compression up a little on your engine) and a set of cams and tune to make it work (24# injectors would also be a good idea at this point) you will be damn close to 300rw.

cool

thanks soCal2V..think i will go with what you said about the PI top end...i have dont a bit of work on the old school V8 engines...im not to firmiliar with the modular engines i got married 25 years ago had a family so i had to give up the hotrod world...all my kids are grown and on there own...ITS PLAYTIME..LOL...hey guys thats for all yalls help i keep in touch
herman rodriguez
houston tx

fordman777 said:

Hang on he said that the original engine was replaced with a 99. He more than likely already has a PI engine.

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Ahhh, post #4, I see that meow.... And here I was, wondering how the hell I came up with him having a PI engine in earlier posts. On threads like this I often find myself going back to the op to get some info straight, thus my arrival at him having NPI.

Well whatever, lol. Now regardless of PI or NPI he now has enough info to get started and maybe if some future user finds this via search then it will be just enough to confuse them.

OP, disregard my life story post from this morning, it doesn't apply to you. Wrong engine.

fordman777 said:

I'm pretty much with SoCal on this. I was on a mustang dyno which simulates realistic drag. That drag can be adjusted. Going off my setup and my numbers you would be disappointed until you actually ran the car. I'll say that I have ran a few HCI LS1's and handled them well. A couple LS2 GTO's that I got by about a car or two on short pulls from a roll. Also a 99-01 cobra that I pulled pretty hard on. First run was an 04 GT with basic bolt ons...he didn't stand a chance. At a 35 roll to 80 I pulled about 6 cars on him.

I will add that on the TFS heads they will always outflow ported stock casting heads straight out of the box. Plus having other perks over the stock heads. However comparing the prices they just aren't worth it to me as far as bang for your buck unless running a big bore. That's just my personal opinion.

If you can find a Lincoln Mark VIII block or engine for a decent price I'd build that. The teksid blocks will save you about 70 ish lbs off the front end. There is a lot of info on this forum alone that can guide you to your power goals. Also Modular Head Shop "MHS" has some pretty good info in their FAQ section on their website.

Click to expand...

hello i have a question on which engine blocks to get....teksid iron block...or teksid aluminum bock..im not worried about weight..what are the pros and cons of the both engine blocks
thanks

As far as I know, there is no such thing as a Teksid iron block. They were all aluminum. They get their name from the plant at which they were cast, which just so happened to be located in Italy. The other aluminum block, WAP, which was used on 99/01 Cobra, 03/04 Mach 1 and the '05+ GT's gets it's name also from it's place of origin, Windsor Aluminum Plant. Don't know much about that block other than it apparently is not as light as the Teksid, as far as being able to hold any power it is a very capable hunk of metal.

For what you want to do I would just stay with a cast iron block to keep costs down. The cast iron blocks will hold more power than most people have the money or knowledge to build. The allure with the Teksid block is mostly the weight savings.

SoCal2V said:

As far as I know, there is no such thing as a Teksid iron block. They were all aluminum. They get their name from the plant at which they were cast, which just so happened to be located in Italy. The other aluminum block, WAP, which was used on 99/01 Cobra, 03/04 Mach 1 and the '05+ GT's gets it's name also from it's place of origin, Windsor Aluminum Plant. Don't know much about that block other than it apparently is not as light as the Teksid, as far as being able to hold any power it is a very capable hunk of metal.

For what you want to do I would just stay with a cast iron block to keep costs down. The cast iron blocks will hold more power than most people have the money or knowledge to build. The allure with the Teksid block is mostly the weight savings.

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oh ok..the reason i was asking is i was helping my neighbor work on his truck and we started talking about mustangs and i found out he has a 98 lincoln mark VIII that is parked at his inlaws and is wanted to junk the car...he said the engine has 78k mile on it....and i didnt know if the teksid block is cast or aluminum...but i did some research and found out a little info on the block

once again im on here..lol...ok so the last time i was on here i was wanting to ad a little more ponies to my gt......but after a short wait period.....i found and bought a 95 DOHC 4.6 engine that has 78k miles..the engine was running flawless and well taken care of...i was told that that i can use my 98 gt ECU,PCM but i would have to have the parameters adjusted to work with the engine...any input is welcomed
thanks

That 95 engine has to be from a Mark8 , if it's from a fwd Continental you can't use it . The 98 pcm will run the engine fine but it does need to be dyno tuned as the Lincoln b-heads flow much better and the cams are more aggressive than any 2v . You will need to decide how the imrc's are going to be handled : ie delete plate , doctored stock plate or activated by a window switch . The stock 2v pcm will not operate the imrc's . The genI 93-96 intake manifold won't work because the throttle body is located at the rear causing firewall clearance issues . You'll need to source a genII 97-98 Mark8 or 96-98 Cobra intake manifold . Cobra exhaust manifolds/headers are needed .

Here's a pretty good writeup on what you're about to do.


This is a step by step guide for swapping a Mark VIII engine in your Mustang GT. This is a cheap, but labor intensive project. I give this as a high difficulty rating. You need to have a quality tool set, a lot of patience, and a good knowledge of mechanics. If you can change a head gasket, or rebuild a motor, you should be able to do this swap. If I have to tell you when to jack the car up, or explain how to remove the old engine, then this swap is not for you. The pictures are going to be in URL format for a clean post. Someone followed this guide, deleting the EGR and having the stock GT tune. He has a bassani ORX and flowmaster cat back. He produced 276HP and 288Ftlbs of torque to the wheels with a completely stock Mark VIII motor. As you can see, this is quite a large gain over the stock 215 to the flywheel for less than $500.

Parts that are absolutely needed:
97-98 Mark VIII engine, complete with vacuum lines.
97-98 Mark VIII Throttle Cable
97-98 Mark VIII Upper fuel lines. * These disconnect in the passenger side wheel well of the Lincoln.
93-98 Mark VIII thermostat housing
93-98 Mark VIII Alternator
96+ Mustang GT wiring harness.
96+ Mustang GT oil pan and pickup tube
96-01 Mustang Cobra Exhaust manifolds. * I prefer the 99+ because they don't have the air injection system that the 96-98 does.
96-? Mustang GT Coolant sensors.
96-01 Mustang Cobra water hoses.
99-01 Cobra intake tube.

* Manual transmission only parts
96-? Mustang GT 6 bolt flywheel
96-? Mustang GT clutch.
96-98 Mustang GT Pilot bearing.

Tools required:

2 floor jacks
2 Jack stands
A set of car ramps.
Multiple extensions and swivels
A decent socket set with at least one 8, 10, 13, 15, and 18MM socket
A decent set of wrenches with at least one 8, 10, 13, 15, and 18MM. And one 15/16th's wrench for the motor mount bolts. I recommend having at least two 10, 13, and 15MM wrenches.
A decent screwdriver set
A mustang Haynes manual.



Step 1. Remove the old 2V engine. This can be done in several ways, so pick your poison. I took mine out the top, leaving the transmission in the car. I deem this a mistake since I couldn't get the clearance required to reinstall the 4V engine and I had to remove the transmission and lower the K member to reinstall. You can leave the power steering pump and the A/C compressor in the engine bay and still hooked up as you will be reusing them on the new engine.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...d/SDC14321.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...d/SDC14327.jpg

Step 2. Locate a Mark VIII engine. I have heard that the Gen 1 93-96 motors will work, including the intake, but I can't confirm. I found a 97 engine, which has an intake more like the Cobra does and it will work fine.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...SDC14337-1.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...SDC14338-1.jpg

Step 3. Remove the wiring harness from the 2V engine. Be SURE to take pictures and label everything, so you can remember where everything goes.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...d/SDC14339.jpg

Step 4. Swap the oil pan and pickup tube from the 2V motor to the 4V motor. Also install the cobra manifolds and the motor mounts at this time. You can bolt the mounts to the K member, but I don't recommend it. It's a pain to get them attached once the motor is in and I had to grind the edge down to fit on the passenger side. The dipstick tube will have to be bent slightly to install the motor mount on the drivers side.

Step 5. Install the wiring harness on the 4V engine. Be sure to start with the fuel injector connectors and work from there. You will have to cut and splice several wires. These wires are the Idle air control, the EGR flow sensor, camshaft position sensor, and the two coolant sensor wires. * Note, the 4V engine uses knock sensors, the wire comes out from under the intake on the rear of the motor, you cant reuse them, so I chose to stuff the wires under the intake. You will also have to thread the second coolant sensor from the GT in at this time. I recommend getting a 93-95 coolant crossover tube since it has places for two temperature sensors.

Step 5B. Vacuum lines.
The mark VIII uses a vacuum brake booster, so you will need to cap this line first, it's on the back of the engine and is the larger port back there. You can delete the line going to the air injection system. Run the PCV valve to one of the ports on top of the intake, then cap the other port on the intake. Take the EGR opening valve from the GT and run your hoses exactly like the GT would. The line coming over from the EVAP canister goes right under throttle body, there is a line under there.

Step 6. EGR and IMRC's. If you are keeping them both, read on, if you are deleting the EGR, but not the IMRC, skip to 6B.

Step 6A: EGR.
If you are keeping it, you have a problem. The pipe that the Mark VIII uses is larger than the GT/Cobra uses, so it will attach to the EGR, but not the exhaust manifold. I took the GT pipe, on the manifold side and cut it in the straight section, then took the Mark VIII pipe and did the same. I then welded them together to make one pipe with the Mark VIII end attaching to the EGR and the GT end attaching to the exhaust manifold. You will have to relocate the IMRC motor and bracket to install the pipe.

Step 6B IMRC's
You can get a delete plate, or you can keep them, or you can wire them open. Either way, you are going to have to remove or relocate the IMRC motor. I removed the motor from it's bracket, then cut the bracket in half, leaving the EGR sensor attached to the block. The IMRC motor can be relocated to the passenger valve cover. If you are keeping them, then you are going to have to get an RPM window switch and relay to activate the motor.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...d/SDC14635.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...d/SDC14634.jpg

Step 7. If you are using a manual transmission, bolt your flywheel and clutch to the 4v engine now. Be sure to install a new pilot bearing on the 4v engine. If your rear main seal is leaking, then this is a great time to change it.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...d/SDC14637.jpg

Step 8. Prepare to install the motor in the body. Install the new throttle cable BEFORE installing the engine, otherwise you are going to have fun hooking it up. * If you kept the EGR, you will have to cut a section of the strut brace on the firewall side, this is necessary to clear the EGR pipe. It's just where the strut tower bar attaches to the firewall, you wont miss it.*

Installing the motor extremely tough to do with the K member and/or the transmission still in the car. It is IMPOSSIBLE to install this motor with the K member bolted in and the transmission still in the car. I had to unbolt the transmission and lower/slide it out of the way, then mount the engine on the K member. Then I had to set the car on the ramps, unbolt the K member and lift the body up enough to bolt the transmission to the engine. *I also believe that it will be near impossible to install the engine with the transmission bolted to it due to clearance issues, but I can not confirm this*
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...d/SDC14644.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...d/SDC14645.jpg

Step 9. Remove the old fuel lines from their quick disconnects in the passenger fender well. Attach the Gen 2 lines to the fuel rails, then cut them off over by the old lines. Then attach a section of 5/16'ths fuel injector hose and clamp it tight to both lines on both ends. The lines on the GT are two sizes, but so long as you clamp it good, it will hold without issue.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...d/SDC14646.jpg


Step 10. Cooling system. You will have to bend the heater pipes on the motor out of the way of the heater core lines. I heated them up with a small torch and used a large punch inside the tube for leverage. I also had to cut one of the pipes in the straight section, then use a 90* bend in a heater hose. On the other one, I used two 90* hoses coupled together to make a 180* bend back to the heater pipe. It's tricky to get the radiator hoses done correctly. You should get Cobra hoses, but you CAN do it with the GT stuff, but I am still unsure about the quality of this, so just get the cobra hoses.


Step 11. Tune. The stock GT computer WILL control this engine fine, it's 100% confirmed. I have 7,000+ miles on it with absolutely no problems or check engine lights. I am going to get it tuned later on because I am sure that I am leaving power on the table, but the GT computer will control the motor just fine with it completely stock.

Step 12. Drive it. Here are my 0-60 times.


Step by Step guide to installing a Mark VIII motor in a 96+ GT. - MustangForums.com