Dyno / Tuner question
Okay all I need some more clarification (must be all the turkey I ate today).
Do you have to have your own Diablo or SCT tuner BEFORE going to a dyno shop or can you just take you car to a shop and have THEM reflash the ECM after a dyno / diagnostic? What's everyone's experience here?
I realize a shop would not use either of these tuners as they have to be returned to "stock" before being used on another car; but do these shops you all go to have other ways of reflashing the ECM that would be used on a multitude of cars? Does that make any sense?
Lastly and not really related (well, kind of): Does anyone know of a Dyno near Junction City / Manhattan / Fort Riley, Kansas?
Do you have to have your own Diablo or SCT tuner BEFORE going to a dyno shop or can you just take you car to a shop and have THEM reflash the ECM after a dyno / diagnostic? What's everyone's experience here?
I realize a shop would not use either of these tuners as they have to be returned to "stock" before being used on another car; but do these shops you all go to have other ways of reflashing the ECM that would be used on a multitude of cars? Does that make any sense?
Lastly and not really related (well, kind of): Does anyone know of a Dyno near Junction City / Manhattan / Fort Riley, Kansas?
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My experience (I own SCT XCAL2) is that you must have your own device and find a tuner who uses SCT technology. Otherwise, you would have a "one time" tune. This would prevent you from switching from ie., NA to n20, 87 to 93 OCT, etc. Also, you could not change parameters if yoiu install different mods, tires, gears, CAI, etc. Of course, if all you are interested in is a "one time" I suppose you could go that route.
KiLLeR_WoMBaT said:
im sure you can buy one at the dyno shop when you get there but call first.you do have to by one to get the tune.i dont think they will simply sell you just the tune without buying the tuner.
Most likley not, any dealer (http://www.sctflash.com/main.php) should have the units in stock. Just find your (BEST, ask around!) local shop, call and make an apointment for a dyno tune and tell them you need the tuner itself...
They have base tunes in a computer they put in your tuner and in your car. Often then they hook it up on the dyno, start it and check the perimeters idling... if all looks good they do a low power pull, kinda like grandma, going through the gears at low RPM while they look at the numbers, mostly air / fuel. If all looks good s/he might get on it in fourth still with a close eye on the A/F... After this you'll prolly have some more power... now s/he should do some small adjustments (on a computer screen) then load that tune into your tuner and then the car... depending how complex your car/tune is and how good/willing to work your tuner is this might happend a few times. Not all runs will be better as a good tuner play around and change stuff to the extremes, like timing etc. They'll that way see what works, and what doesn't...
They do have SCTs base tunes in the computer, they might also have tunes they made 'for fun' or tunes from other similar cars. My car has some 100 dyno runs that are all logged and stored (at MD) to see what different settings do. There is also tunes for CAI, CMDP, X-pipe, UD Puleys, stand alone and in different combos... This way Ken can see what he changed for best power let's say adding CMDPs to an allready CAIed car... of course all cars and set ups are slightly different and needs fine tuning (hence professional cutome tune!) but they'll have a place to start... But they must have a fresh/clean tuner unit that needs to be assigned to your car before they can start, that's how SCT make their money...
Now go find YOUR tuner on SCTs website!
Good luck and have fun! A good relationship with your tuner is a great and valuable thing to have, for your first tune and for comming ones!
PS. Don't get that other brand! :winks
They have base tunes in a computer they put in your tuner and in your car. Often then they hook it up on the dyno, start it and check the perimeters idling... if all looks good they do a low power pull, kinda like grandma, going through the gears at low RPM while they look at the numbers, mostly air / fuel. If all looks good s/he might get on it in fourth still with a close eye on the A/F... After this you'll prolly have some more power... now s/he should do some small adjustments (on a computer screen) then load that tune into your tuner and then the car... depending how complex your car/tune is and how good/willing to work your tuner is this might happend a few times. Not all runs will be better as a good tuner play around and change stuff to the extremes, like timing etc. They'll that way see what works, and what doesn't...
They do have SCTs base tunes in the computer, they might also have tunes they made 'for fun' or tunes from other similar cars. My car has some 100 dyno runs that are all logged and stored (at MD) to see what different settings do. There is also tunes for CAI, CMDP, X-pipe, UD Puleys, stand alone and in different combos... This way Ken can see what he changed for best power let's say adding CMDPs to an allready CAIed car... of course all cars and set ups are slightly different and needs fine tuning (hence professional cutome tune!) but they'll have a place to start... But they must have a fresh/clean tuner unit that needs to be assigned to your car before they can start, that's how SCT make their money...
Now go find YOUR tuner on SCTs website!
Good luck and have fun! A good relationship with your tuner is a great and valuable thing to have, for your first tune and for comming ones!
PS. Don't get that other brand! :winks
Thanks KJ,
I am leaning towards the SCT. I've just got to get over the Christmas hump (damn teenagers) before I purchase it. :winks I was just wondering out loud on how the whole tuner / dyno relationship worked. My only "performance" mod so far is the CAI and it's just the K&N one which most consider a waste. Since this CAI doesn't need a reflash, should I just wait until I get the exhaust or something to worry about tuning?
I am leaning towards the SCT. I've just got to get over the Christmas hump (damn teenagers) before I purchase it. :winks I was just wondering out loud on how the whole tuner / dyno relationship worked. My only "performance" mod so far is the CAI and it's just the K&N one which most consider a waste. Since this CAI doesn't need a reflash, should I just wait until I get the exhaust or something to worry about tuning?
Your CAI is worth another 3 - 6 HP, but the SCT could be worth an extra 15 or so HP, not to mention the "little" things it takes care of like timing, removing the torque limiter, dirming up your shifts, etc. My car has the same engine as yours and I must say that the SCT XCAL2 was by far the most bang for the buck I've done. I bought mine for $359 from www.VMPtuning.com. Justin is very good and real keen on the V6.
KiLLeR_WoMBaT said:
If you have the full K&N unit you will gain allot from the tune!
Unless you do headers no tune will be needed for exhaust mods, maybe even headers will slid... but as always for best performance and gains a tune is required!
There is so much more than air/fuel and ignition timing in the tunes... most noticably throttle responce, quicker delivery, fuel economy, and shifts if you have an auto...
My guess is you have 5 or so more RWHP with the K&N, the tune will tripple/quadruple (?!?) that, but again it will feel much more than that because of the other drivability fun factors! Easily worth it! A tuner should be the first mod if you go for performance over bling and sound!
Unless you do headers no tune will be needed for exhaust mods, maybe even headers will slid... but as always for best performance and gains a tune is required!
There is so much more than air/fuel and ignition timing in the tunes... most noticably throttle responce, quicker delivery, fuel economy, and shifts if you have an auto...
My guess is you have 5 or so more RWHP with the K&N, the tune will tripple/quadruple (?!?) that, but again it will feel much more than that because of the other drivability fun factors! Easily worth it! A tuner should be the first mod if you go for performance over bling and sound!
359 is under min sale price per SCT! He'll get in trouble, they are very hard on that and the dealers tell on each other! If he's local and have a good shop/tunes I'd hurry to get one!
I checked it and it seems it's the regular min price of 279 now... from VMP:
"PN: SCT9400
The ultimate hand held flasher. Holds up to 3 custom programs, datalogs w/two analog inputs, reads/clears codes, and connects to your PC with a standard USB cable. On-Device adjustments and on-device datalogging included.
3 Custom Programs included.
Our price: $379.00"
I checked it and it seems it's the regular min price of 279 now... from VMP:
"PN: SCT9400
The ultimate hand held flasher. Holds up to 3 custom programs, datalogs w/two analog inputs, reads/clears codes, and connects to your PC with a standard USB cable. On-Device adjustments and on-device datalogging included.
3 Custom Programs included.
Our price: $379.00"
KJ, My bad, I guess he's gone up. I bought mine when they were $359. You are also correct on two other points - A good tuner is invaluable (In my case Justin has emailed me tunes for every mod I've done and then some and he is good friends with a local guy "Dyno Dan" - together they got my little V6 to kick Butt) and the SCT Will do a lot more than I previously mentioned. Best bet is to head to http://www.sctflash.com/
and read all about it.
and read all about it.
kj_cinci said:
That's cool! Nice with tuners/shops taking in an interest in the 4.0!
Good Luck !! I know you WILL enjoy !!
Good Luck !! I know you WILL enjoy !!
Thank you guys! One question: Justin emailed the tunes? How does he create a tune for specific mods without ever seeing your car? I bet there is NO ONE around here that does this kind of stuff. If there is, then no one I know has a clue who or where they are.
OK, that's the beauty of the XCAL and a relationship with a good tuner. Things happen on several fronts: 1) SCT develops a tune through testing 2) A tuner, like Justin, develops his own tunes based on his testing and experience or 3) Tuners may exchange tunes. Say for instance, Justin has a customer who has installed a Supercharger on his V6. So he develops a tune to optimize the car. Six months down the road, you put the same S/C on your car and assuming you are Justin's customer and have a good working relationship with him; he either sells you the tune or maybe gives it to you. This is accomplished via emailing you a file which you then download to your XCAL using "Liveload" software via a USB cable. Then go to your "Stang, plug into the PCM port and upload your new tune. 5 minutes later, your car is realizing it's full benefit of the S/C. Maybe the following week you have a set of 3:73 gears installed, no problem, just use your XCAL to tell the computer and you are good to go. When you get confident and have some experience, you can creat your own tunes. Look, I'm old school and back in the day, every mod I did required turning a wrench and still does to a certain extent. But my 05 "Stang is considerablbly more sophisticated and hi tech than my old Boss and this technology is just another means to make your car run faster and better.
KiLLeR_WoMBaT said:
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