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Discussion Starter #1
I've gotta do some inter-cooling upgrades to my car. This last weekend I was seeing IATs into the 190s while auto-crossing. I'm guessing I was probably boiling intercooler fluid if not very close to it.

What are some things I can to to get those temps down. Here is what I'm considering:

First is changing my inter cooler fluid to Evan's NPG-R to guarantee I'm not going to boil out my intercooler fluid:

NPG-R » Engine Cooling Systems

Then I was considering the AFCO dual-pass intercooler to replace the once Edlebrock sent me. Not sure if I would do the fans or not. Probably need them pulling air between runs for what I'm doing. It's just a lot of $$$.
AFCO 07-10 GT500 Dual Pass Heat Exchanger w/Dual 10 Fans [AFC80280PRO] : Lethal Performance, Performance parts for Ford Mustangs

I'm also considering a larger pump that will do more GPM through the intercooler.

I already have an AFCO racing radiator I havn't installed yet so I'll probably go ahead and do that along with a 170degree Tstat then adjust the fans down 10degrees. Won't really have that much direct impact on IATs but will help the engine run cooler.

I still have the insulation pad under my hood so that's gonna come off along with the weather stripping along the windshield wipers to help some heat escape.

Finally, since my blower retains the stock air box I want to find a way to duct in fresh air either from underneath the air dam or through the hood with a ram-air kit (like cervinis). Either way I've gotta stop sucking 200 degree air from under the hood.

Thoughts/Suggestions?
-HD
 

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JLT makes a great CAI...also see if you can get someone to tune your car to run E85, makes a huge difference in cooling...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I looked at a few of those, but it seems like that CAI that still sucks hot air from under the hood or does it duct outside somehow..

Had not considered the E-85 angle. I can get it easy enough, just gotta plan my trips accordingly.

-HD
 
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It's summer, it's hot. You can get a Steeda Race Cowl and lower underhood temps to within 5 degrees of ambient. Larger intercooler will most definately help. The twin fan setup is not recommended unless you are doing a 1/4 mile after 1/4 mile. Me and my tuner talked for a while about it because I wanted the best I could get. He talked me out of it. A larger coolant tank for your IC will allow better temp management. I would look to an AFCO dual-pass non-fan version. I'm sure there are other that heat exhcangers that will work just fine. The stock one that came with my maganacharger was itty bitty. All aftermarket ones were better for me. Tuner recommended AFCO though. Tuneable inductions makes custom CAI's. He might be able to work one for you that mimicks the one that comes with the KB blower that goes to the bottom of the front of the car away from the engine. Later on I might try to get him to work an induction that takes air in from the Cowl of my hood, definately at the bottom of the totem pole for my mod list now though.
 

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Meth....

Anderson has a product called Mr. Freeze and Snow performance has a system.

...

Or you could switch to a centrifugal.... :D
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Don't know if meth is an option when i'm autocrossing. Pretty sure the rules prohibit it. Also not sure how it would respond to the constant on again/off again throttle use.
 
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I data logged my iat a few hours ago. I was just curious after your post of 190. Mine were 104-108 after it warmed up to normal, which has no relevance tingly really. What is your iat's at startup, warmed up and driving at highway speeds?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
A lot of it depends on the weather and my specific driving conditions. Typically on start up I'm within a few degrees of ambiant air.

If i just take off and go straight down the highway the temps will stay within 20 degrees of ambiant.

If I either a) start pulling on it pretty hard it will jump up to 30-40 over ambiant and then hover back down to between 20-30.

or b) If I get it warmed up and find myself in stop and go then the temps will climb up there and never get back down below around 30 above ambiant.

or c) I can have IATs of 100ish with the car warmed up, stop at the quick stop to grab a drink and with it sitting those few minutes the IATs will have climbed 40 degrees while the car was sitting there. Then it takes several miles of cruising up the highway to get them back down to within 20 or so degrees of ambiant.

Honestly that's just to the best of my memory. I've never paid too close of attention to it when I'm just cruising like that but it seems like the IATs will never get above 130-140ish at highway cruise even on the hottest Arizona summer days.

Out on an autocross course where I'm twisting it hard in second gear 90% of the way for 70+ seconds at a time and then straight back into the staging lanes to go again with only a few minutes in between (car still idling).. Out on a hot airport tarmac... all that combined took no time flat to post up some extreme IAT readings.

Last weekend was the first time I'd ever done an autocross with the car. I had so much fun I'm dying to do it again, but I'm scared to put the car through that with those kind of intake temps. It's never an issue in the 1/4 mile when it's 13 seconds or less then shut it down.




-HD
 

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At a minimum put a 20gpm pump on. I put one on mine and it was an amazing improvement. Next step 55gpm pump!:bigthumbsup

The huge heat exchanger will do you a lot of good also. You are heat soaking that thing to death autoXing it.

Aside from those two things you will be taking small bites out of the apple. The EForce has a relatively small IC. There is only so much you can do.
 

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If you're not running fans then pay attention to air control in front of the radiator/heat exchanger. Air takes the path of least resistance and going through the cores of a radiator/heat exchanger is high resistance. You have to dam up the air so it can't spill off the sides, up through the hood latch or down under the car. Venting the hood allows the air to pass through the radiators easier as well as letting air from under the car escape causing less lift and drag. Ford does an adequate job for a street car but not for a SC race car. Everything Sqidd said is on the money.

 

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Discussion Starter #11
Alright, that makes perfect sense 908. Appreciate the photo too. Is that something you bought? Looks like it would be something pretty easy fab up out of some sheet metal that could really help make a difference.
 

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Alright, that makes perfect sense 908. Appreciate the photo too. Is that something you bought? Looks like it would be something pretty easy fab up out of some sheet metal that could really help make a difference.
I made all that and it is probably more than is absolutely required but all road race cars pay many hours of attention to air flow. You want to take in the least amount of air and get rid of the most heat. It is hard to see in that picture but there is an oil cooler in the center on top and a heat exchanger that reaches clear across the bottom. The front is not sealed to the grill opening but it does bottle up air in front of the radiators and the cold air duct to the air cleaner. Then it keeps the air from flowing out from between the layers. I moved the power steering cooler tubing between the air conditioning radiator the main water radiator so the front was flat to mount the oil cooler and heat exchanger.



 

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Discussion Starter #13
How about this pump?
Jabsco 50840-0012 Marine High Flow Cyclone Pump 12-Volt

It's rated at 29.7 GPM @8.7psi head pressure.
Edelbrock's current setup flows 4.4 GPM @ 4.3psi head pressure.

Since I have no reliable way to predict how much head pressure the Edelbrock intercooler will create at various flow rates and I have no idea how fluid dynamics work, I'll use my best dumb-ass 'country boy' math using fingers and toes to come up with a factor I'll call 'Flow (F)' for lack of a better variable.

For the Edelbrock I have a system that operates 4.4gpm and 4.3psi yielding a 'F' factor of 18.92

The Jabsco is rated at 29.7GPM @8.7psi for an 'F' of 258.39

258.39F / 18.92F = an order of magnitude (Om) of 13.66.

The Jabsco flows 13.66Om greater than the Edelbrock pump

If we take the original operating flow rate of 4.4gpm / 4.3 psi, we can determine at 1PSI of pressure, the intercooler system will flow 1.2 GPM.

Factory this by 13.66Om and the estimated flow race I come up with using this pump is ~13.93GPM @13.66PSI





The other option at twice the price is:
Jabsco 50860-0012 Pump

It's rating is 21GPM @ 19psi which yields an 'F' of 399 and an Om of 21.08. or ~21.5GPM @ 21psi (which would be impossible since that's greater than the pumps rating).

OK, I clearly need someone else to explain this to me...
-HD
 
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At a minimum put a 20gpm pump on. I put one on mine and it was an amazing improvement. Next step 55gpm pump!:bigthumbsup

The huge heat exchanger will do you a lot of good also. You are heat soaking that thing to death autoXing it.

Aside from those two things you will be taking small bites out of the apple. The EForce has a relatively small IC. There is only so much you can do.
The Bosch pump that comes on my car, GT500's, Lightnings...only flows 4 gpm. I THINK it runs on a 2.5 amp fuse. Don't quote me. The fittings I believe are 1/4". What is the easiest pump swap? http://www.timskelton.com/lightning/race_prep/reliability/intercooler.htm
If you scroll down to the picture of the meziere pump it has some installation notes. It was for a lightning so I don't know how much difference there is with a mustang.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I made all that and it is probably more than is absolutely required but all road race cars pay many hours of attention to air flow. You want to take in the least amount of air and get rid of the most heat. It is hard to see in that picture but there is an oil cooler in the center on top and a heat exchanger that reaches clear across the bottom. The front is not sealed to the grill opening but it does bottle up air in front of the radiators and the cold air duct to the air cleaner. Then it keeps the air from flowing out from between the layers. I moved the power steering cooler tubing between the air conditioning radiator the main water radiator so the front was flat to mount the oil cooler and heat exchanger.



That's some top notch work there!:bigthumbsup You're giving me lots of ideas here. Especially with that oil cooler mount up. That's one I'd been thinking of before and was considering using the trans cooler found on automatics and mounting that up the factory bracketry. What you have looks real clean though!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The Bosch pump that comes on my car, GT500's, Lightnings...only flows 4 gpm. I THINK it runs on a 2.5 amp fuse. Don't quote me. The fittings I believe are 1/4". What is the easiest pump swap? I'm guessing there is a amp issue with a bigger pump and maybe a fitting conversion or is there an easy way and still have quality? One other thing, if you start pushing a lot psi on a new pump, is there any issue with like a resovoir cap rated at "x" psi and having a pump with >x psi?
All good questions. I spoke with Edelbrock tech about what I was planning on doing w a bigger pump and they didn't seem too concerned that it would be an issue.

The answer was basically "yeah, it's a sealed system and it will handle the extra pressure no problem."

Here is another thing I'm considering for those times sitting still in the staging lanes after the car has gotten hot.

I'm gonna pick up a couple of these puppies and fab up a way to mount them behind the IC. w/ a manual switch and if they don't fit, oh well.. I'm not out that much...
2010 Kawasaki Ninja EX250 250 RADIATOR FAN on eBay!

They're all over e-bay for cheap..

-HD
 
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All good questions. I spoke with Edelbrock tech about what I was planning on doing w a bigger pump and they didn't seem too concerned that it would be an issue.

The answer was basically "yeah, it's a sealed system and it will handle the extra pressure no problem."

Here is another thing I'm considering for those times sitting still in the staging lanes after the car has gotten hot.

I'm gonna pick up a couple of these puppies and fab up a way to mount them behind the IC. w/ a manual switch and if they don't fit, oh well.. I'm not out that much...
2010 Kawasaki Ninja EX250 250 RADIATOR FAN on eBay!

They're all over e-bay for cheap..

-HD
Back in 07 when there were not a lot of cooling upgrades available I pulled out the stock front HE and mounted a 6.5" spal electric fan to the back of it. I powered it off the stock intercooler pump circuit (had to upgrade the 10 amp fuse to a 15amp). At the same time I installed a switch in the console that allowed me to turn them on manually. By running the pump and fan I could cool the fluid in the staging lanes for drag racing, the fan will also help with cooling at low speeds and in traffic. Spal is a well known brand, don't mess around with cheap ebay fans, they may vibrate and fail early.

This is a quote from Justin at VMP's forum from this thread GT500 Cooling Part 1: The Stock Intercooler System - VMP Tuning Message Board

I have no idea about that stuff, but just something you should consider.
 

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Back in 07 when there were not a lot of cooling upgrades available I pulled out the stock front HE and mounted a 6.5" spal electric fan to the back of it. I powered it off the stock intercooler pump circuit (had to upgrade the 10 amp fuse to a 15amp). At the same time I installed a switch in the console that allowed me to turn them on manually. By running the pump and fan I could cool the fluid in the staging lanes for drag racing, the fan will also help with cooling at low speeds and in traffic. Spal is a well known brand, don't mess around with cheap ebay fans, they may vibrate and fail early.

This is a quote from Justin at VMP's forum from this thread GT500 Cooling Part 1: The Stock Intercooler System - VMP Tuning Message Board

I have no idea about that stuff, but just something you should consider.
Those Ninja 25 fans may be a bit on the low side of quality but any of the Supersport 600’s, 1000’s (CBR, GSXR, ZX whatever R, R whatever) and especially Ducati’s have GREAT 12v fans. And everyone takes them off for track bikes. I would have no problem using one of those.:bigthumbsup
 

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heat extraction hood! :winks

Have you considered removing your stock lower grill for some more air flow?

I also ditched the stock insulator over a year ago, no issues from it not being there at all
 

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Since you live in AZ and freezing is unlikely I reccomend that you use a low coolant to water ration and add a couple of bottles of water wetter to the mix. I would go with only using 1/4 coolant to 3/4 water and 2 bottles of water wetter. the coolant will keep your system from corroding and straight water cools better. The water wetter help the water disapat the heat. if you are auto crossing fans will not do much since they are desinged to aid cooling at low speeds and at rest. A larger intercooler with a greater surface area will give you the best results. You can, if the resivoir opening is large enough, fill it with ice or dry ice. Or you can add this kit CRY02 http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy01.asp?T1=DE80102+01&Category=Power+Adders&subCategory=CO2+%26+N2O+Cooling+Systems&CatKey=EMUSTANG
 
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