Ford Mustang Forum banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

mrstangABQ

· Registered
1966 Mustang 289, 3 Speed Automatic
Joined
·
24 Posts
Reaction score
7
Location
Boise, ID, USA
Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello, I have a 1966 Mustang 289 that’s all original.

I would like to upgrade to an electronic ignition. I am trying to decide between the Duraspark 12000A and a Pertronix D134600.

Is the Duraspark compatible with the stock air cleaner cover?

Does the Pertronics come with a cast-iron gear.

Does anyone have any recommendations between these two or maybe something else?

Thanks in advance for your help!


Link to Pertronix
Check out this page from Summit Racing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...ts/pnx-d134600?srsltid=afmboor-hyq_xgo7i382hj0h9i-ohqw7qtszcwhzningyzsebcllojaj

Link to Dura Spark
 
I don’t have any experience with either of the distributors you have posted, but back when my dad owned the Mustang we put an MSD “ready to run” distributor in it. I will say we dropped it in, set the base timing and it ran good.

While the car wasn’t getting anywhere near the power, or mileage it had the potential for, dad was ok with it as he only drove the car about 40-50 miles a year. Fast forward about 6 years and dad passed the car down to me, I went through and set it up with a lot of help from the members here and I will say it was easy to set up and runs fantastic. If you decide to go with the MSD unit, I can give you my setup for a mild ‘66 289. Here is a link for you

Cheers and good luck - Drizzit 🍻

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8352
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrstangABQ
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the suggestions. The original distributor has way too much play in, so I need a new one anyway.
Car is also running very very rich. Exhaust smell is terrible.
I’m hoping an electronic ignition will make it run more efficiently.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
It can also be a retarded timing issue.
Agreed. Setting the timing is nearly impossible with the play in the distributor. Step one is fixing the distributor issue. Points have been great, but I want to try electronic now.

It looks like I need a distributor with a cast-iron gear. It’s very difficult to find.
Does anyone know where I can get a cast iron gear for my distributor on my 1966 289?
 
I would contact whichever distributor manufacturer you decided to go with, they can give you the part number for an iron gear for your particular distributor. Then you can do a search for the part number.

I do know that the MSD 8352 comes with the iron gear already installed

cheers - Drizzit 🍻
 
Hello, I have a 1966 Mustang 289 that’s all original.

Hi Dan,

I will apologize for being a bit long winded here but, let me bring some science to light and dispel some really bad PR documents that have been pushed throughout the decades.

You will have to excuse me a little here, but what is more reliable than points......certainly not the more popular & common “e-box replacement kits”. Yes you can hear people state "It runs so much smoother/better than when it had points"........in each case that an individual said that in my presence, they had very little knowledge about points and the ones they were running were- old & tired or inexpensive aftermarket replacement units or the individual (including professional mechanic) was unfamiliar with not just setting the gap to OEM specs, but setting the dwell & initial timing to what the engine likes.

But let’s look at the OEM ignition system from the early 60’s….

Original Coil Voltage: 20,000; by the end of the 60’s 40,000 volt high performance coils were common…..by the 70’s 50,000 & 60,000 volt coils were easily available & is what we have today. Did we really gain all sorts of HP/TQ with all this extra voltage…….no, what we were able to gain was stronger support (if you will excuse my terms here) for higher RPM’s- specifically in the 6,000+ range…..enough to power NASCAR engines in the 8,000 rpm range at 200+ mph!

Points were used in NASCAR up through the late 1970's, running speeds of 200mph+.........Cale Yarborough did lose a race one time because the ignition points broke. In a street application, if you look at the data very closely that is provided by these more common e-box companies, in street applications (where max power-band RPM is around 6000), when the standard dyno deviation is removed (5% standard per every dyno mfg) there is less than 1% improvement in performance. Further testing by independent aftermarket DIS (direct ignition system) manufacturers verify this through their own testing- there is little gain over an ignition points system until you reach 4000 rpm…then you begin to see a slight sustainment of ignition delivery above what points can deliver but it doesn’t even begin to compare to what a “modern”, real e-based system can & does deliver in a real world street (and race) environment.
I am not promoting this product but their analysis is very accurate of the misleading PR docs pertronix & others have…... http://www.compu-tronix.com/FAQ.htm#A13

link: http://www.compu-tronix.com/MightyMo...risonGraph.pdf
The other item is, in a street vehicle, if you wait to see improvement until 4000+ rpm, the race is over.

Here is a link to a back to back ¼ runs- comparison of points vs a couple of e-box conversions……..no discernible difference http://www.vintageperformance.com/retrorockets/track.htm
These e-box “conversion kits” (and most of the aftermarket distributors) have literally the same design limitations as the “conventional points”- because they are essentially using the same delivery system (rotor, cap, wires, etc.) and they are subject to the same inherent design impactors of which there are numerous….including ozone that is produced within the cap…..none of this has by miracle “disappeared” and in fact when compared in true recorded data-frame analysis, the benefit will be gone by 5800 rpm and the loss, although slightly less, parallels that of points.

In racing conditions that could very well make a difference, but in a street application, you could literally change brand of fuel and see that level of improvement or degradation. Additionally, there are companies such as ProComp whose “High-Tech Multiple Discharge Ignition Systems” are nothing more than re-boxed low tech conversion parts purchased in bulk from other companies- mostly Chinese-based. Check out this pic procomp ignition box?? of a “new” ProComp e-ignition system- it’s a glued together GM part stuffed into a pretty aluminum box. Considering they were sued in 2006 by MSD (and prohibited as part of a settlement from using/distributing any of their parts), I’m not surprised by anything I see with their crap….but this includes much of the e-box aftermarket industry- a lot of PR documents which physics does not play any part!

Very good quality ignition points/condensers are available and when set properly, are very reliable and provide excellent performance. There have been no less than 5 people who I personally knew were going to get e-boxes or change distributors to gain all sorts of performance and reliability, then I had them get a good set of points/condenser, a high voltage (40k+) coil, and installed them showing them specifically how to do it......the engines ran smooth and strong. One person did end up buying a distributor, why, because he said he just got tired of not being "cool", after spending $500 for a distributor, etc (he went “Popular” high end), a year later (when he asked me to help him fix something) he admitted, it was a waste of $...it didn't run any better than after we put the points in.

While many state the positives of e-boxes (and there are certainly many positive attributes), there are conditions which reduce an e-boxes effectiveness & reliability....to start with the circuitry and handling (container vessel shipping) of it from China (which is where 90% of the more common/popular e-box company's products originate). Any aspect including temperature control, static safeguards, moisture can & will cause both detectable and undetectable damage which may not show up until after you have subjected the installed component to real world vibrations, heat, cold, moisture & grease/oil. Yes, all of these damage e-components, but the systems (based upon a variety of factors) are suppose to be prepared to endure these exposures but that is based upon many, many assumptions. Including proper handling & q/a.......given all of the 3rd party involvement in the final product, it is unrealistic (IMHO) to believe that e-boxes have an increased reliability as compared to their mechanical-based counterpart. And in terms of “Dwell Control” I won’t even go into that in detail but I will say, what the “kits” provide is a joke…..you can actually get more control over the dwell by having an understanding of how to set timing versus dwell setting with points than the most popular e-box conversion kits can provide…..which makes for a very smooth running engine- this is not just IMHO, but well known among the "higher quality" aftermarket engineers whose systems reflect this ability to "tune"!

If you need to say I got rid of my points…ok, that’s fine, but if you are really serious about actually upgrading the ignition system then do so……although it has been scrapped by the OEM’s in favor of more advanced, effective systems, there are aftermarket DIS units (yes the same as Ford used in the 90’s & developed by Porsche in the 80’s) whose cost is within reach of most buyers and will actually perform as stated.

Ok, I'm done 😁
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
These e-box “conversion kits” (and most of the aftermarket distributors) have literally the same design limitations as the “conventional points”- because they are essentially using the same delivery system (rotor, cap, wires, etc.) and they are subject to the same inherent design impactors of which there are numerous….including ozone that is produced within the cap…..none of this has by miracle “disappeared” and in fact when compared in true recorded data-frame analysis, the benefit will be gone by 5800 rpm and the loss, although slightly less, parallels that of points.

In racing conditions that could very well make a difference, but in a street application, you could literally change brand of fuel and see that level of improvement or degradation. Additionally, there are companies such as ProComp whose “High-Tech Multiple Discharge Ignition Systems” are nothing more than re-boxed low tech conversion parts purchased in bulk from other companies- mostly Chinese-based. Check out this pic procomp ignition box?? of a “new” ProComp e-ignition system- it’s a glued together GM part stuffed into a pretty aluminum box. Considering they were sued in 2006 by MSD (and prohibited as part of a settlement from using/distributing any of their parts), I’m not surprised by anything I see with their crap….but this includes much of the e-box aftermarket industry- a lot of PR documents which physics does not play any part!

Very good quality ignition points/condensers are available and when set properly, are very reliable and provide excellent performance. There have been no less than 5 people who I personally knew were going to get e-boxes or change distributors to gain all sorts of performance and reliability, then I had them get a good set of points/condenser, a high voltage (40k+) coil, and installed them showing them specifically how to do it......the engines ran smooth and strong. One person did end up buying a distributor, why, because he said he just got tired of not being "cool", after spending $500 for a distributor, etc (he went “Popular” high end), a year later (when he asked me to help him fix something) he admitted, it was a waste of $...it didn't run any better than after we put the points in.

While many state the positives of e-boxes (and there are certainly many positive attributes), there are conditions which reduce an e-boxes effectiveness & reliability....to start with the circuitry and handling (container vessel shipping) of it from China (which is where 90% of the more common/popular e-box company's products originate). Any aspect including temperature control, static safeguards, moisture can & will cause both detectable and undetectable damage which may not show up until after you have subjected the installed component to real world vibrations, heat, cold, moisture & grease/oil. Yes, all of these damage e-components, but the systems (based upon a variety of factors) are suppose to be prepared to endure these exposures but that is based upon many, many assumptions. Including proper handling & q/a.......given all of the 3rd party involvement in the final product, it is unrealistic (IMHO) to believe that e-boxes have an increased reliability as compared to their mechanical-based counterpart. And in terms of “Dwell Control” I won’t even go into that in detail but I will say, what the “kits” provide is a joke…..you can actually get more control over the dwell by having an understanding of how to set timing versus dwell setting with points than the most popular e-box conversion kits can provide…..which makes for a very smooth running engine- this is not just IMHO, but well known among the "higher quality" aftermarket engineers whose systems reflect this ability to "tune"!

If you need to say I got rid of my points…ok, that’s fine, but if you are really serious about actually upgrading the ignition system then do so……although it has been scrapped by the OEM’s in favor of more advanced, effective systems, there are aftermarket DIS units (yes the same as Ford used in the 90’s & developed by Porsche in the 80’s) whose cost is within reach of most buyers and will actually perform as stated.

Ok, I'm done 😁
Thank you. I’ve had points for a long time. I’m willing to try an electronic ignition. I can always go back.

I just need to find the right model with the right gear.
 
I replaced my worn out distributor with a new Ford look like Pertronix distributor and a new matching Flame thrower coil. We had a question about what to set the timing at. During the engine rebuild, I installed a hi lift Comp Cam. I called Comp and that tech asked me about the distributor. Then he told me NOT to use the distributor gear that comes with the Pertronix distributor. It is too hard for the Comp Cam gear. I talked to Pertronix about that and they, of course, said it was not an issue. I then talked to Summit Racing where I purchased the distributor. That Tech told me it could be an issue and recommended swapping the distributor gear for a softer one. That's what we did. Do a search for guys that didn't swap out that gear. It is easier to change the distributor gear than change the cam.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts