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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Last week I went down to my dealer and had them flash the computer with the new calibration that is supposed to rectify the top end cold start knock that many of us have been experiencing. Here is what the results are after a week of driving the car.

The engine knock reduction on startup has been reduced by a negligible amount. By this I mean, that at any given startup, the change is not noticeable. Now granted, the heat index around here has been 100+ for the last week, so I do not get to hear for long. But, it does not appear to make any difference on the knocking. I will wait till it gets colder to make a final judgment on this.

Interestingly, I was hoping that this new calibration would have done something with the bottom end lag and and throttle response on the car. It certainly did do that. It made it considerably worse. What was a momentary lag in the throttle has now become a "I can't decide how fast I want to accelerate for a given pedal position" on the computers part. I have had increased stumbling on acceleration below 3500rpm to the tune of aggravation. I feel it the most in 1st gear, I guess because that gear is the most sensitive to any power changes in the engine. If I take off normally (not spirited) at say 1500rpm in 1st gear, I can hold the pedal at a fixed position and I can almost feel the PCM arguing with itself on where the cam timing and spark should be. To explain it differently, it would be the same feeling you would get in a car that had an adjustable distributor, if someone was rotating the distributor back and forth while you were trying to accelerate (effectively bouncing the timing back and forth). It actually feels like the timing is being retarded severely. Once over 3500, it seems to smooth out, but anything under 3500rpm, is just horrible. There are times when it evens feels like its missing, but I know its not. Sitting at idle, the car will start to rock back and forth momentarily as if there is a cylinder imbalance. It will last for seconds at a time on up to as long a 2 minutes. It does not feel like a dead hole misfire, but as if some huge weight was added to the crank and threw everything out of balance. There is no rhyme or reason to it and there is nothing I can do to "make" it do it, other than sit at idle. I am not happy with this PCM calibration at all.

My patience is wearing thin trying to do the right thing by allowing Ford to address the issues and not taking it upon myself to put the warranty in jeopardy. It is hard to tell whether or not my car actually has an issue (beyond the obvious) or if this "just how they run".

I would like to hear from anyone else that has also had the calibration change. Any similar experiences or definite fixes? I seriously want to throw my hands in the air. I love the car, love the power, love the handling.......when it ACTUALLY works. These quirky little issues make me not like the car as much. I can't afford a tuner at the moment so am I at a loss?
 

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Sorry to hear about this. Now I know not to do this if I develop this problem.

Keep your chin up, everything will work out eventually.
 
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I've read where the crankshaft position sensor needs to be relearned after flashing the computer, though most reports refer to replacing the clutch. Perhaps it is something to inquire about.
 

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Grimace427: these cars have an adaptive stratagy, but the drive cycle for them to is only 10 miles on these cars so they learn their fuel trims and such very quickly. Doesnt have anything to do with the crank sensor though.
 
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Grimace427: these cars have an adaptive stratagy, but the drive cycle for them to is only 10 miles on these cars so they learn their fuel trims and such very quickly. Doesnt have anything to do with the crank sensor though.
The fuel stretegies are not related to misfire detection. That is all crank sensor and what the OP sounded like was happening. From my experience with Mercedes Benz whenever the misfire detection data is cleared the crank sensor needs to be relearned with our diagnostic computer attached during a test drive.
 

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SCCA2010GT...please keep us posted on this. I'm interested in hearing if it improves. I've had mine at the dealer for this issue way back in March and I was finally planning on having the reflash done soon. Maybe I'll wait until we see if others have negative issues, or if they work themselves out by relearning.
 

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OP, thank you for the info. I was planning to get this done at the next service but I may hold off now. Please keep us posted.
 

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I've had my car done about a month ago. Same 100 degrees out here so not sure whether it really helps the cold engine noise.

Otherwise I dont notice a difference. There was a lag before - seems no different now. It happens that the car rocks momentarily when at iddle, but it's just for a moment - not for 2 minutes. It did that before the reflash too.

I dont seem to have the same issues as the OP. I'd go back to the dealer to have the car checked out ...
 

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OP, thank you for the info. I was planning to get this done at the next service but I may hold off now. Please keep us posted.
And so it begins. Ok sheep.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Whats most aggravating about it is that its not a huge enough problem to determine whether there is an actual problem or whether its just crappy tuning. The rocking idle sometimes lasts a few seconds but has lasted as long as 2 minutes. Before the flash, the rocking was there, but its a little more pronounced now. The lagging on acceleration is definitely more noticeable. Before, I used to get the 1/2 to 3/4 second delay and then the car would go. Now, like I said above, it feels like I am pumping the accelerator on acceleration. Again, not an enormous amount, but enough that my co-worker (who is not a car guy) noticed it on a drive the other day and asked why I was doing that. I told him that I was holding the pedal steady and he said that it felt like the car wasn't running right. Sometimes its more pronounced than others. Its one of those things that..... its there, I notice it, its annoying, but is probably something that the dealer wouldn't see as wrong unless they hook some kind of data logging equipment in and see that its not smooth. I am going to put an email in to my TSE and follow up on the data logger install that he was supposed to schedule. More to come as information unfolds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Just as an update. Now about two weeks under the belt with the new calibration and no change from what was posted above. Again, the issues are not super apparent, but enough for a person who drives the car everyday to realize something is not right. I am not sure what I am going to do. I contacted my TSE at Ford and he said the engineers are supposed to be building the template that they are going to load in the data logger they are going to install in my car. So far, no more information than that.
 

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Just as an update. Now about two weeks under the belt with the new calibration and no change from what was posted above. Again, the issues are not super apparent, but enough for a person who drives the car everyday to realize something is not right. I am not sure what I am going to do. I contacted my TSE at Ford and he said the engineers are supposed to be building the template that they are going to load in the data logger they are going to install in my car. So far, no more information than that.
Thanks for keeping us posted, SCCA. I hope they can get your car squared-away soon. Good luck.
 

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Well, it's been a while since this TSB came out...Just wanted to check to see how many folks with the cold-knock got TSB 11-7-4 performed...and what were the results?


I know SCCA2011GT got it performed and it didn't work for him...in fact it seemed to make his car run worse.. I wanted to see if most are having any success with the TSB, or if is not working.


Anyone else who has had it performed, please chime in and let us know your thoughts. Thanks!
 

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Well, it's been a while since this TSB came out...Just wanted to check to see how many folks with the cold-knock got TSB 11-7-4 performed...and what were the results?


I know SCCA2011GT got it performed and it didn't work for him...in fact it seemed to make his car run worse.. I wanted to see if most are having any success with the TSB, or if is not working.


Anyone else who has had it performed, please chime in and let us know your thoughts. Thanks!
Got mine done today, can't tell a difference so far.
 

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Thanks Jeepis. Please let us know if it actually corrects the cold-knock as well as any other effects (throttle response, power, etc.) it has as you put some milage on the new tsb tune.

So far, it looks like one person has degraded throttle response that does not improve with learning, and two folks had it done with no negative "side-effects" (also noting uncertainty as to if the new tune actually corrects the knock).

SCCA-did they ever get the data logger installed? I am interested in hearing the results of that (if your issue had anything to do with the new tune, or if it's a totally unrelated issue simply exacerbated by the new tune).
 

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Ok, had the chance to drive my car a bit more. No adverse performance issues, the car feels as good as it did before the TSB. As for the cold piston slap/rattle that the motor has, it has merely increased the rpm at which I hear it. I used to hear a slight rattle around 2500 rpm, now I don't hear it until about 3200 rpm or so. This is fine because when the motor is cold, I "baby" it and don't rev higher than 2500 rpm or so anyway until fully warmed up.

So in my opinion, this TSB was a success, it didn't get rid of the piston rattle but moved it to an rpm range which I would not be in while warming the car up, and no adverse side effects that I can tell. The car still gets up and goes when you press the skinny pedal on the right!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
UPDATE:
I have been busy as hell lately, so sorry for the delay.

I had the car down to the dealer while I was on vacation a few weeks ago to address a few issues. The gas gauge plummeting at various times was fixed by updated senders that required dropping the tank. I had them check the AC efficiency because with the weather being in the high 90's here at the time, my AC would take 30 minutes to get to 50* at the vents, if it even got there at all. They said that they couldn't find any issues with it and that according to the Ford specs, 55-60* at the vents was "normal" for the temperatures we were seeing. I was floored by this, but thats another story for another time. On to the topic at hand.

Ford sent the VDR down and they installed it in my car. I had the dealer drive it for the day because they said they felt the same issues that I was talking about. The service manager said they got some really good logs of the performance when it was degraded, and then they sent the VDR back overnight to Ford. I haven't heard anything from the dealer yet, so I emailed the engineer that I have been corresponding with and this morning he said he will check with engineering and see what conclusions they have made if any at this time. Unfortunately, no resolution at this time, but the cars performance is degraded to the tune of irritating. My MPG has dropped off considerably. I was getting around 13-14mpg per tank before when I first got the car and the last 3-4 tanks have been no higher than 11.5-11.7mpg. On this tank, I am ACTUALLY trying to see if I can get it any higher by not exceeding 3k rpm if I can help it. Short shifting everywhere I go and cruising in 5th or 6th gear on city streets. So far I am at 12.4 on this tank but the caveat is, the degraded performance (lag and stumbling) happens at lower rpm. The car does not want to move when I press the gas pedal. Watching the instantaneous mpg meter, it resembles the same thing that I get when I look at the service meter on my iPhone...... 1-2bars ALL TH TIME unless I am coasting. So... I am tossing around the idea of selling this car for something else, partly due to these issues, but I am trying to wait this out until I get a resolution. As far as the knock is concerned, we have had a few 60* mornings here in the past 2 weeks and the cold start knock is still there at the same rpms. If the calibration changed anything, its a negligible change. It didn't get rid of it, which is what I was expecting from the TSB. So.... thats my world for right now.... more to come as it unravels.
 

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SCCA...sorry to hear about your stang. They have to be able to figure that out...that milage is way low...something is seriously messed-up there. Hopefully, they can make it right for you.

Please continue to let us know when you learn what the engineers found after their analysis.
 
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