[johney5]

As I posted earlier, I've lowered my 05GT with Eibach pro's and now Tokico Dspec shocks. With the stock shocks the ride was too harsh. With the Tokico's the ride is softer again. I have them set at about 3 turns down from their hardest position.
I'm missing the feel I had, that the car was on rails, and now the nose dives a bit. Can I set the front up harder than the rear? Is this dangerous? I guess I've got to compromise somewhere, but what I loved before the Tokico's was that the lowered car felt tight at 110 MPH..with the Tokico's there is a bit more sway, I have to be more alert to control the car again...which was the problem I had before I lowered the car...
suggestions please?

 

[GTRaptor]

What you feel is understeer.
Stiffen the rear shocks and SOFTEN the front. Do this one step at a time until you feel comfortable.
You can also play with tire pressures, RAISE front pressure and lower at the rear.

Corrections have to do a lot with the spring rates and correct suspension geometry, when you lower the car the geometry changes, this is specially important with the front suspension. Im not that familiar with the S197 front, but my guess is that by lowering the car you also have induced a bit of bump-steer, this can be corrected, check this items from Steeda:

1. Front Control Arm relocation Kit (to correct roll center)
2. Bumpsteer Kit

 

[redbullet]

As I posted earlier, I've lowered my 05GT with Eibach pro's and now Tokico Dspec shocks. With the stock shocks the ride was too harsh. With the Tokico's the ride is softer again. I have them set at about 3 turns down from their hardest position.
I'm missing the feel I had, that the car was on rails, and now the nose dives a bit. Can I set the front up harder than the rear? Is this dangerous? I guess I've got to compromise somewhere, but what I loved before the Tokico's was that the lowered car felt tight at 110 MPH..with the Tokico's there is a bit more sway, I have to be more alert to control the car again...which was the problem I had before I lowered the car...
suggestions please?

I'm going to guess that you talking about street driving or you would know the answer, but yes, you can set the shock setting independant of the rear.

Be advised that the shocks job is to take bounce out of the spring, not help stiffen the spring. In a street application you could use the shock for some spring tension and get away with it, but what it sounds like is you need a some bigger sway bars or stiffer springs and then tune the shock settings.

Going to bigger sway bars, front and rear, or just rear and make the front more effective by using poly bushings in the mounts and Steeda's end link kit. The sway bar is like a straight spring so going up in size or making it more effective is like stiffing the spring.

Making the shocks as soft as possible while still controlling the spring is what you want.

Don't worry about nose dive, you're going to have weight transfer and can't get away from it, the car ain't balanced properly.

By your description, I would go with the Sportline front spring and the Pro rear and add an adjustable rear bar like Hellwig's. This will stiffen the front, allow for a softer front shock setting and reduce your nose dive. This will help give the 'crisp' feeling again. If you aren't always on it, then I wouldn't do the springs, I would look at the sway bars or just tighten up the front shocks and live with the ride.

 

[johney5]

Thanks for your answers, but I think I will stick with the Eibachs. The thing is, before the Tokicos, and just with the Eibachs and stock suspension, the sway seemed to be gone. Now with the tokicos, it seems to be back (hey I'm talking about a little bit here...this is more about fine tuning). I think the Eibach's are probably heavy duty enough. The nose dive seemed gone before the Tokico's, but perhaps I was experiencing what you said, that the stiff shocks were making it seem like the springs were more heavy duty?

 

[mustangaretuff]

I have heard from others that going with an adjustable panard bar with "solid" end links takes some of the nervous feeling out of the car. Evidently the rear end has a little side to side play due to the soft bushings in the factory panard bar. Be warned that this may introduce some extra noise into the cabin. I am probably going to go with the Maximum motorsports one. It is supposed to be out next week.



BTW if I am misspelling Panard or Panhard, I don't know which someone please correct me.

 

[redbullet]

I just got one from CHE and it has a big ol' rod end on one end and a Delrin bushing on the other to isolate the road noise.


It's a big ol' aluminum piece. Real purity too.

 

[GearTech]

you don't use shocks/struts to tune sway out of the car, you have an issue with the sway bars, I have the sport line springs, tokico dsp12's and eibach sway bars nand the car is on rails. also get the roll center fixed on the front. that is most of the unstability you are feeling.
the tokico setup is by far the better of the two shock setups.

 

[mustangaretuff]

I have heard good things about the CHE piece, they have three different ones, which did you go with?

I just got one from CHE and it has a big ol' rod end on one end and a Delrin bushing on the other to isolate the road noise.


It's a big ol' aluminum piece. Real purity too.

 

[redbullet]

I have heard good things about the CHE piece, they have three different ones, which did you go with?

The expensive one:eyepoppin lookin at their control arms next, with the delrin.

 

[redbullet]

here you go..... in black
http://powerhouse411.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_3_7&products_id=14

and the control arms.....

http://powerhouse411.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_3_6&products_id=1

I like the delrin over poly.

Global West says they are in any hurry to produce anything for the Mustang any time soon so their Del A Lum bushings are out.

 

[mustangaretuff]

Thanks for the heads up! Have you done the panard bar brace as well or do you know anyone that has? Curious if it is overkill? Also, I am going to wait a while on LCA's I have heard some say, on the track (road course) that it makes the car a little unpredictable. Basically the rearend reaches it's limit and oversteers with out much warning. Not exactly something I want to risk with a new car. Hell I don't even have it yet.

Ordering wheels today. SSR, really light.

 

[johney5]

Hey guys,
as usual with this forum, we start talking about an issue, and then change subject midcourse. And then, and this is the part I hate, someone joins in and starts talking about a really specific piece, and they don't even have a bloody car yet!

So, guess what, I'm going to do the same!

I live in Paris France...so guys put on your imagination caps and picture this.

Last night, at 2 in the morning, I'm driving along the Seine river. There is a sort of fast lane that traverses most of Paris along the river, its called the Quai. I'm in my lowered 2005 mustangGT, Borla's etc, and NY Plates....and a late 60's Shelby pulls up along side me. I thought I was halucinating, and I can only imagine what anyone else thought that had seen this...two mustangs in the middle of the night, one old, one new... in PARIS %$&$§%FRANCE.

Some very rich looking French dude looks at me...sort of like what the é%&*$ is an American doing driving that late model Mustang. So I rev...my engine, and he does too.

The noise was fantastic as it resonated off the walls of the quai and the river. I totally floored it, of course, and left him doing about 120MPH . The stock shelby didn't have a chance.
He caught up with me at a stop light..gave me a thumbs up...I think he was rather impressed by the 2005GT

Oh yeah...I was listening to "The story in your eyes" by the MOODY BLUES extremely loudly when he pulled up.

 

[mustangaretuff]

Point taken and good story. The idea of a new mustang in Paris is kind of funny anyway, I picture lots of Pugeot's (pronounced "Pugwat: in the US), Le Cars, and other poorly designed Frenchmobiles.

By the way give me a freak'n break, the car will be delivered to me in 2.5 weeks. The wheels and tire should arrive on Monday, and the FRPP kit, well who knows, whenever Modular Depot gets it here (hopefully next week)

Now on to your direct questions from earlier. Setting the car up harder in the front than in the rear is probably safest. This tends to make a car push (understeer), which is much safer than oversteer which is fun for drifting but dangerous if you are not expecting it. To make the car feel more buttoned down start a full hard all the way around and then back off as needed. To really take the sway out of the car, go with the sway bars, you will notice a big difference.

Finally, as I have said in other posts, an upgraded adjustable panard bar can make the car feel a little less nervous in the rear. Quelling some of the side to side movement inherint in the factory piece.

 

[johney5]

What am I going to do?

This is the reply from GTRAPTOR
What you feel is understeer.
Stiffen the rear shocks and SOFTEN the front. Do this one step at a time until you feel comfortable.

Reply from: mustangaretuff
Now on to your direct questions from earlier. Setting the car up harder in the front than in the rear is probably safest. This tends to make a car push (understeer), which is much safer than oversteer which is fun for drifting but dangerous if you are not expecting it.

Stiffer rear, or stiffer front?
How about a vote?

 

[redbullet]

To Reduce PUSH / Understeer - Tighten The Rear

Increase REAR Roll Stiffness

Increase Sway Bar In Rear -- Stiffer

Reduce Sway Bar In Front -- Softer

Increase Rear Shocks -- Siffer

Increase Rear Springs -- Stiffer

More Negative Camber -- hard on tires

Higher Front Tire Pressure

***********************************************

To Reduce LOOSE / Oversteer

Increase FRONT Roll Stiffness

Increase Front Sway Bar -- Stiffer

Reduce Rear Sway Bar -- Softer

Increase Front Shocks -- Stiffer

Increase Front Spring -- Stiffer

More Positive Camber - closer to '0' or beyond

Higher Rear Tire Pressure

************************************

They are others like stagger and cross weights and such, but these are about all you can do with out alot of money

Most cars if not all from the factory PUSH, that is why I suggest getting an adjustable rear bar and using the stock front bar and add stiffer bushing and better endlinks and braces.

That's after you have installed springs.....