[1cor29]

So there were discussions (for Leo41) about this intake manifold, and not losing torque like the Boss intake does. Well, I spoke with Jake LaMotta with Lamotta Performance and we spoke about this particular intake.

By the way, I stopped by there today to chat and pick their brains since my Mustang would not be ready until next week. Turns out, the owner of SCT has to create a tune for this intake manifold since there aren't any out yet from SCT. My Mustang will be the first to receive this new file!

Anyhow, this was the crux of why I came in the shop today. Jake told me that this intake will indeed cause some torque loss; at least 20 ft. lbs. He also indicated that the Boss intake would not lose as much. So Leo41, I was wrong. Teaches me that I can't always go off what the "Internet" says. I do trust LaMotta's experience and although I was a little discouraged, it's really not a lot considering all the upgrades I'm getting. All these upgrades are getting done, all at once: LTH w/ O/R x-pipe, cobra jet twin bore (65mm) T/B, CAI, MGW shifter, 3.73 gears (up from 3.31 (thought it was 3.23)), intake manifold, and SCT tune. I won't feel a loss of 20 ft. lbs. of torque so I'm not too worried about that. Jake and company also indicated I will start getting the benefit of this intake at 4k RPMs and up.

Attached are the intake manifold (CAI is currently removed because they needed room for installation of the LTHs) and the stock dyno run numbers.

 

[fourdegrees11]

Dyno tests I've seen between Boss and CJ manifolds were extremely close. I like that there's a readily available supercharger adapter for the Boss manifold, so If I do get one that makes all of the difference for future upgrades.

 

[Beechkid]

. My Mustang will be the first to receive this new file!

Jake and company also indicated I will start getting the benefit of this intake at 4k RPMs and up.

.

So you're going to be the "ginnea pig" with your engine......if you so choose, ok


4K+.......so just about the time the race is over 9as far as street goes), you're going to now start making power......if you so choose...ok

 

[fourdegrees11]

So you're going to be the "ginnea pig" with your engine......if you so choose, ok


4K+.......so just about the time the race is over 9as far as street goes), you're going to now start making power......if you so choose...ok

These coyote's live above 4k, especially with 3.73s. If you're shifting at 7k you're not dropping below 4k

 

[1cor29]

So you're going to be the "ginnea pig" with your engine......if you so choose, ok


4K+.......so just about the time the race is over 9as far as street goes), you're going to now start making power......if you so choose...ok

This was my concern which is why I went out there to talk w/ them. SCT makes these same files with the super snakes, and other race cars. He's been doing it for 15 years. So if he can do it for race cars, then I'm sure it won't be problematic for slightly modified Mustang.

 

[1cor29]

These coyote's live above 4k, especially with 3.73s. If you're shifting at 7k you're not dropping below 4k

LaMotta Performance told me they moved the rev limiter to 7k RPMs, vice 6.8k RPMs and indicates I'll feel it starting at 4k RPMs.

 

[1cor29]

4K+.......so just about the time the race is over 9as far as street goes), you're going to now start making power......if you so choose...ok

Also, I don't beat on my car very much at all. Occasionally I'll take it to 4-5k RPMs and very rarely 6.5k RPMs. This is not my daily driver; I actually keep it "stored" and about every 3 weeks, I take it out for date night, or just for a quick spin. Bottom line, I don't street race because one can get into lots of trouble.

 

[noldevin]

To make good power with the cobra jet you want the rev limiter at like 7800, and you want to be shifting no lower than 7500. You are wasting time and money if you shift any lower.
If they set the limiter at 7k for a cobra jet you went to the wrong place.
I'd get a tune from someone who is experienced with the cobra jet, like Lund or AED. No one uses SCT tunes. Your car should be making 440+ rwhp if it's a manual.

 

[Leo41]

Hey thanks for the post. Funny how this car mod thing goes.. not 2 days ago I was 100% certain my final mod would be a CJ intake, now not so sure.

As for tuning this manifold if I went with it I'm thinking I would likely use Brenspeed. He used that on the high mileage coyote, and has a tune he races with for it. He put out 400 WHP with no other mods but the intake/TB/CAI/tune with an auto so I am thinking 415 for manual.


My big thing is the torque drop. Mine is a DD that hits 4k once in awhile, but lives below.

Please do post how this goes for you, and what you feel. I am very curious.

Funny how one guy/shop says Boss is the bigger drop, the next one says CJ is, and they both look to be basically the same tunnel ram design.

 

[1cor29]

Thank you all for the replies. They seemed to have finally finished my Mustang; there were several issues, well, really 1 main issue they ran into and that was connecting my previously installed Flowmaster Outlaw catbacks to the American Racing LTH w/ off road x-pipe. They had to do some extra cutting/fitting which took some time. The other issue they had was the fact that SCT does not have tunes for CJ intake manifolds (now they do because of my Mustang). They did several pulls and attached is the picture for the initial (stock less catback) and final run after everything is said and done. Jake from LaMotta did say my Mustang now sounds like a top fuel dragster, lol. I viewed his video and man did it sound nice!

Hindsight; I think I would have just gone straight to a roots-type supercharger as my first mod because I spent near that much with all these mods! Perhaps I'll check into Brenspeed or Lund and see what I can get.

BTW, it was about 88-90 degrees out.

 

[Leo41]

Man those are solid numbers. Agreed about the cost of the blower, but you are still stock internals. You've picked up roughly 75 hp from stock, and the motor is entirely safe vs blown and a gamble. This is the reasoning behind me not doing a supercharger.

I'm really looking forward to the report on how the car feels now to you. Also I'd love to see the whole RPM range dyno results before and after. I'm curious how the peak shifts and to look at those low torque numbers (and the new curve). Did they give you those?

 

[1cor29]

Man those are solid numbers. Agreed about the cost of the blower, but you are still stock internals. You've picked up roughly 75 hp from stock, and the motor is entirely safe vs blown and a gamble. This is the reasoning behind me not doing a supercharger.

I'm really looking forward to the report on how the car feels now to you. Also I'd love to see the whole RPM range dyno results before and after. I'm curious how the peak shifts and to look at those low torque numbers (and the new curve). Did they give you those?

Just picked up my car and got home....all I can say is WOW! I cannot believe how different the car feels (remember this was stock, less catbacks when I dropped it off). The whole 9 yards makes the car so different! And I absolutely cannot believe how loud the car is. On a cold start, it's extremely loud, but is much better when it's warmed up. But when I take it to 3k+ RPMs, it screams!!! Jake from LaMotta Performance told me this is the loudest he's ever heard with my set up. When driving home, it's tolerable; not crazy obnoxious unless I lay on her. She feels like she got some cam work done! This is easily an 11 second car!

See my numbers attached; before and after. It was about 90 degrees out with high humidity (being in Central Florida) and the numbers are based off the strictest readings (SAE vs STD). I gained some up front torque too!Oh, and the MGW shifter is sweet!!!

 

[Leo41]

Dude.. wow that graph.. perfectly illustrates.

I had no idea the stock intake dropped like rock after 6100 rpm, guess we need to change our stock shift points. Unless maybe it is in the stock tune (were you tuned stock? .. doubtful by the before).

I don't like the drop in everything below 2800 rpm, but wow on the over that part.

How does it feel off idle in normal driving? That drop is pretty rough.

Still stuck on stock putting out nothing about 6100.. I do wonder if they stopped the test stock at that RPM.. it's like a rock.

 

[1cor29]

Dude.. wow that graph.. perfectly illustrates.

I had no idea the stock intake dropped like rock after 6100 rpm, guess we need to change our stock shift points. Unless maybe it is in the stock tune (were you tuned stock? .. doubtful by the before).
Hey, the reason for the drop off is because the first graph was based off 3.31 gears. The second run with all mods, was based off 3.73 gears so please note the second graph's RPMs aren't quite as representative because as you know, changing gears increases your RPMs at the same speed. The drop-off here represents hitting 7k RPMs, even though the graph indicates otherwise.

I don't like the drop in everything below 2800 rpm, but wow on the over that part.
Hmm, not sure what you mean here. It's an increase in both HP and TQ in the beginning. From 2k and on is when more power and torque start coming into play.

How does it feel off idle in normal driving? That drop is pretty rough.
Again, it's the change in RPMs. Think of it this way...take the two blue line graphs and slide them to the left to attempt to overlay the other two. It's kind of hard to explain, but these graphs take a bit to understand, at least for me! Anyhow, the drive is completely normal; idle and all. It's just much more responsive. I haven't even taken it above 4k RPMs yet.

Still stuck on stock putting out nothing about 6100.. I do wonder if they stopped the test stock at that RPM.. it's like a rock.

Hope this helps! Let me know if you have more questions; I'd be glad to help out best I can!

 

[Leo41]

Yeah having to slide the graph I guess throws me off.

I guess what I mean is the original stock run shows to be 350 ft/lbs @ 2500 rpm.

The after run shows to be 230 ft/lbs @ 2500 rpm.

Actually everything under 2800 or so rpm shows less after.


Either way though the important part is how it feels. When normal around town driving does it feel as strong? LOL, it sure sounds like it does.

I vividly remember the first drive after building my Fox. I had expected so much, and immediately the rpm had shifted so that below 3k felt weaker but louder. Of course beyond that is was wonderful. Just meant a slight adaptation on my part.

 

[fourdegrees11]

Dude.. wow that graph.. perfectly illustrates.

I had no idea the stock intake dropped like rock after 6100 rpm, guess we need to change our stock shift points. Unless maybe it is in the stock tune (were you tuned stock? .. doubtful by the before).

I don't like the drop in everything below 2800 rpm, but wow on the over that part.

How does it feel off idle in normal driving? That drop is pretty rough.

Still stuck on stock putting out nothing about 6100.. I do wonder if they stopped the test stock at that RPM.. it's like a rock.

It doesnt

https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2011-ford-mustang-gt-50-dyno-tested.html

 

[JBert]

The graph is screwed up, the RPM's are wrong in one of the two runs; I can't quite decypher which one. You basically need to shift one curve to the left so it lines up at the beginning, or vice vesa.

That's pretty confusing; I did not realize it works that way; I thought the RPM data was engine RPM taken from the RPM lead so you should be able to overlay the two runs correctly. I don't know how you can back-calculate the engine RPM from rear wheel RPM unless you plug in the tire size and gear ratios, and I don't think they do any of that when you do a dyno run. I know for sure they did not ask for any of that information when I had my car dynoed. I've tried to think this math through a few times without success.