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Discussion Starter #1
The long version of the problem back 2010 I purchased the Edelbrock E-force #1585 setup from a supposedly reputable supplier that had good reviews.
The kit I purchased came with the eforce supercharger unit, GT500 fuel pumps 60lb injectors NGK cold plugs, Cold air intake MAF sensor cooling system and belt tensioner upgrades. I don’t remember the diameter of the pulley but, I was aiming for 10psi. It also came with an SCT tuner with what was supposed to be a custom daily driver 91 octane tune.
They claimed to have thousands of hours of R&D on their tunes and when I talked to them I made it clear the bottom end was stock. They said no problem with this Setup and tune it would hold up. I was kind of hesitant with that much boost at first but looking at their reviews and seeing some videos of projects they had done I went for it.
Note I am a trained mechanic not your average hobbyist in the garage no offense to them but I am just noting that when I tell you I installed the S\C myself. Almost everything was plug and play very little modification needed. I did everything step by step and double checked it came with an excellent instruction guide from Edelbrock.
When I started the car it came to life with the first twist of the key everything was perfect no leaks no problems it was running great. For two tanks of gas everything was perfect, it pulled strong, idled smooth, there were no strange noises or ill effects in fact I was impressed at how quiet the S/C was it did not have the loud trade make whine of the KB or whipple systems, it had no drivability issues at all. I did rip on it some I had to it was running great but I never really abused or thrashed it.
Then the heart break moment about a week later on my way back to work from lunch on a rolling start I stepped on it and pulled strong through 1st,2nd,3rd gear when I slowed down to pull into the parking lot at work I could hear it a faint really weak sounding ticking noise. My heart sank I took the rest of the day off and checked everything I pulled the belt off the S\C, pulled the plugs pulled valve covers ran my bore scope down all the holes and couldn’t find it no visible sign of damage but I still had the tic. At that point I was really just hoping I had broken the flex plate or the converter. I wasn’t that lucky when I got it back to the garage I pulled the oil filter and cut it open the damage was obvious the oil was full of metal.
The four rear rods were bent into S shapes none of them had broken but one of them had been shortened up enough to allow the crank throw to shave the bottom off one of the piston skirts that was the source of the ticking noise. That’s my story. My question is could the valve timing and or fuel curves in the tune be far enough off to allow the motor to hydro lock? Obviously my first thought was detonation but the tops of the pistons looked great no damage of any kind and no apparent discoloration to suggest that those cylinders were burning different. When I called the supplier I bought the kit from they said sorry about your bad luck.
Basically 7K invested for two tanks of gas worth of fun it made me sick to even look at the car.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
The car has sat now for three years and its time to decide what to do with it, either cut my losses and put a cheap used motor in it to sell it or invest a whole lot more into it and put it back together. one of the problems with the 3V they dont seem to have alot of support when it comes to long blocks and crate motors. I definately want to put the S\C back on it if I am going to fix it to keep it, but im not sure if it would fit on a 4V or if Im stuck investing 5K into a short block and get my 3V heads rebuilt to put them back on.
 

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I don't know what to say here, at 11:1 compression and adding 10 psi of boost with stock bottom end is pushing the envelope...were you data logging at all? what were your A/F ratio through the RPM spectrum?
Rods bending out like that seems to indicate excess compression on them, especially given the fact top of pistons looks good, almost telling you your bottom end (specifically, your rods could not handle that much boost)... adding 6.5 to 7 lbs of boost is plenty power for stock bottom end, I think going above that is inviting trouble.
Before I switched from a stage 3 with toys to a 50 trim Garret turbo on my 004 SRT4, we essentially started with a bottom end built...H beam rods, high strength pistons, updated wrist pins, fasteners and gaskets ... I flogged that ride at the track a few good times and other than tires and brake pads I never had issues at all, it's been a while, but if I recall correctly, the new pistons were exchanged to a slightly lower compression because of the higher added boost levels and car was tuned for 91 octane fuel .
The shop that did the build for me ( I was there helping out as well) specialized in SRT4 power gain builds and knew his stuff.... but I remember him telling me, lets starts with the bottom end. I had that ride another 3 1/2 years after that build and it continued to run like a champ, just trying to give you insight into how I approached my build.
It's all good and fine to add a SC or bigger turbo, just as long as bottom ends still have a fair margin of safety and strength... I always had a concern with pushing internals on stock bottom ends....at 11: 1 with 10 lbs of boost, you're throwing some serious increased pressure on stock rods...full ON hard acceleration and loads on those rods increases in tri folds if not more, just saying!
Hope you'll be able to resolve this soon man!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I was not data logging, I also knew that 10 psi was alot on the bottom end I knew the risk going into this that is why I didnt post the name of the supplier I got it from
but what burns me about it was that I had discussed it in detail with them prior to the install going with the extremely mild tune that it should hold up I even asked them if they recommended going with a lower boost level.. In the end I take the blame for not going with a forged rotating assembly but I guess I was hoping that they were right as a daily driver with no intention of taking to a track it would just be a lot of fun for a long time.

I have kicked around the idea of picking up a low mile complete motor and backing it down to 5 PSI but I would have to find a reliable source for another tune because I dont live anywhere close to a chassis dyno or a good tuner.
 

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Who knows what they were thinking, maybe they figured you might just be building the bottom end up with a stouter forged rotating mass... you wanted to buy, they wanted to sell, the mighty dollor at work here...right from the get go, personally, I would NEVER add a SC or Turbo without first installing a forged rotating mass, you know, even at 5 lbs, you're increasing pressure on those pistons, but remember....pistons movement is limited to UP/DOWN movement....with a rotating mass as the rod turns around the crank, there is a point of angle (outer throw before the down stroke,( both sides) that receives the additional torque/pressure from above---- the piston. The weak spot is ALWAYS the rod body between the wrist pin and the rods caps... it IS where the bending occurred! Your investigation into the upper end revealed your A/F mixture was right, no abnormal burn tall tales, no piston damage either...
Why not tear the block down and REALLY assess the damage, was the crank damaged/scored? what about the bores? any damage there? Do some measurements with a micrometer once stripped and, see where you're at.... if there really is no damage, or minimal damage ( crank can be sent out for a re polish)... once stripped change your rod caps out, forged rotating mass, consider lowering the piston compression to accommodate a SC increased boost ( 11:1 is for aspirated applications ) get some ARP head studs/ crank rod cap bolts, basically, remove all weak spots and replace for a boosted build.... I doubt you're looking at a huge cost if you're doing your own build,all in, you might be in for around $1,000 / $1,500 in parts, with that cost comes PEACE of mind....good luck man, keep this thread POSTED.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I have the motor apart, the crank throw that was hitting the piston is pretty thrashed, basically need one sleeve and full forged rotating assembly. To put that motor back together. With getting a sleeve installed, and the forged rotating assembly puts the rebuild price closer to 3500 to get it running. Which would be ok if I had a local machine shop I trusted. But that being said I'm leaning away from rebuilding the original motor and kicking around the idea of a coyote swap.
 

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Sorry to hear about your bad luck. I've been running the e-force w/ CAI and 8psi on 91 for over 50,000 miles on my stock bottom end. About the only time it sees boost these days is when I get out to pass or hit the on ramp. I don't drag race my car and after several rounds of trouble with the power steering, I ultimately quit corner carving it a couple of years ago too. It's a boulevard cruiser anymore, but there was a time when I used to track the car and when I was on course I was driving it HARD and right to the limits of the engine, the brakes, the tires, and everything else.

I've run a remote tune from Brenspeed on it for most of that time and would certainly vouch for them. We did about 5 rounds of back and forth data-logging/tweaking (with a wideband o2 involved) to get it just where I wanted it right at first but man I've never had one iota of trouble out of this setup. But then again I'm only at 8PSI and I've never tried to get 10/10ths out of the tune knowing that my bottom end is probably at the ragged edge of the "safe zone" as it is. 10PSI is IMO a bit too much for the stock bottom end and asking for trouble. Especially with the E-force being the bottom end torque monster that it is.

I hope you get it straightened out. If I were in your shoes I'd do as Candy said and slap a forged rotating assembly in and drive on. If not, and you just want to replace the engine then I've seen 4.6 fully dressed and ready to drop in longblocks sell for as little as $2000.00 if you do some looking around. Resale on your blower should cover that easily not even including any money you would get out of the usable parts of your own engine.
 

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Unfortunately, sounds like you pushed the stock motor just a weeee bit too far. May be no one's "fault" here, but just the way some of the engines are; some hold up to more power just fine, some do not. Without knowing exactly what the car was going through at the time (i.e., datalogging as mentioned), it's hard to tell exactly what may have happened. Did it run lean? Was it just too much power? Etc.

Only you an really decide what to do now. You've got a taste of the power the blower provided, the smile it put on your face, the "hell yeah!" yelling...and it's not so easy going back to n/a...it may just feel too slow.

You could go ahead and rebuild the engine, put some forged components in, and make it so it'll easily handle the power, and keep the blower. You're quite able to do such a build, but you might not want to.
Or get a built shortblock and put it together and put it in and stay boosted.
Or as mentioned, drop in a replacement engine and keep the blower off (or go with a larger pulley and reduce power).

Think about it awhile longer if you need to. If you just want to part ways with the car as-is, pm me and we can chat about it offline.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I think that I want to get away from the 3V and go 2v, or 4v as they seem to have more R&D support but I dont know if thats possible with the S\C that I have I dont know if it will fit on any of the other configurations does anyone else know?
 

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I'd stay with the 3V in this car, unless you opt for a 5.4 swap to a 4v. There HAS been a lot of work on the 3v setups, they produce nice power gains over most of the prior 2v and 4v setups, and run much more efficiently. From your perspective, you just bolt on the heads you want, more or less. The bottom ends are mostly interchangeable (you'd be surprised at how many pre-2005 iron block 4.6L engines are around with 3V heads in these cars).

But, it all comes down to what you want, and what power goals you have (now and later on).
koolaid.gif
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ya I understand but I was kind of looking for a forged crate motor and the 3V is non existant, If I build it from the bottom up what are the reviews on the Iron blocks being used by Brennspeeds 326, and DSS 326.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I think while I have to motor out of the car and Im going to have to invest a small fourtune to get it back up and going anyways I am going go with a TR6060
 

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now you're talking! :worship

But you're right, I don't recall seeing a complete forged 5.0 or 323 cu.in. drop-in engine package. Still, it'd be easy for you to put one together.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I bought a pedal box for it today guess gotta start somewhere baby steps right..... When I get back to the states at the end of the month Im moving to Texas so thats going to delay progress but im hoping to have it up and going by Aug-Sept
 

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My opinion, and this is only my opinion, but looking at the way FORD designed and built this coyote 5.0 shows me it was not really designed for bolt on added power such as SC. Sure it can be done, and a lot have done it, safely...but looking at the one simple fact it comes NA with 11:1 comp is maxing out power output with SAFETY buffers for the engine. Looking at the GT500 assembly (5.4, SC with forged internals) solidifies this train of thought....it's basic building blocks are set up and built to safely withstands the added boost a SC puts out....and this is outta the box. 5.0 stock rods are designed to handle +/- additional down stroke/up stroke forces not really exceeding 7/8 psi of boost as hammerdown said, and at those boost levels, you're on the edge.
I always entertained the thought of SC mine, but my approach would first include a stouter forged rotating mass, followed by a SC and finishing with custom tuning, I also would not trust the clutch assembly in stock form for obvious reasons.... which is why I am leaving the car in stock form, at 412hp it's enough for me for the time being, when the time comes to up my power, I will do a complete build that would remove ALL weak links out the equation.
I have a few friends running SC mustangs, and I know the fun they offer over stock pressures....most run no more than 5/6 psi of boost, and a GOOD tune, and they seem to hold up just fine, again just like hammerdown was saying, he's at 50,000 on a SC engine, with zero issues, but it's the luck of the draw!
The good news is you have plenty of options, choose one that works best for you, and hit er up...if you were close to me, I'd be offering to roll up my sleeves and helping you out, but you're not, best of luck man with the new path!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I have been doing some looking and I am leaning towards a MMR 750SE long block- Put the Eforce back on at 10PSI- a 5R55s swap to a TR6060. But I will probably change my mind a dozen times between now and then. I am moving in April so thats my first hurdle once I get settled then it will be go time for the project.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I will however be looking for some of the things needed for the Trans swap, I picked up a pedal box the other day, need to find a manual harness, ECM, that kinda stuff if you guys have any leads I would appreciate a heads up. TIA
 

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Try and stick with a PCM and engine harness that is the same year as your car. There are some cross-year compatibility issues as well as things that work ok.
For example, for an '05 GT, stick with a '05 or '06 pcm for a manual transmission and 4.6L v8, and depending the style of your "c110" connector (black power connector near the PCM) to the engine harness, either a '05 or '06 harness. You could use your existing engine harness, but would have to obtain the proper manual trans connectors and run the wires to the proper pins on the PCM connector. For most people, they just get the harness. (I have a '06 pcm and harness, but not ready to sell them yet).
 
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