[kameroncousins1]

So I just bought a 88' LX with a 2.3 4 cylinder engine. I get a lot of crap about it being crap and to swap or jun it and find a 5.0, but it's my baby and project car. I don't have money for a proper turbo setup, engine swap and there are no 5.0s around my area. So I'm trying to find ways to make more power. I was wondering if you guys had any ideas?

An idea I had that I needed to ask about to see if it would work is, would It be possible to put in larger fuel injectors, a larger throttle body, bigger mass air flow sensor, and cold air intake (push more flowing and dense air into the engine) would any of this work? I don't know if there would be anything special I would have to do with wiring and sensors. But I'd appreciate the feedback. I know that might not work but I'd love to learn more about what I can do to this car. It's a resto project so my purpose isn't to make it a fast or race car.

 

[145566]

Well my man, you're pretty much behind the 8 ball. Just how slow are you trying not to be? I understand that this isn't a race car but if you're trying to be faster than anything other than another 88 4 cylinder mustang you'd be pee peeing you're money away buy buying any bolt-on parts. The 302 5.0 swap isn't exactly cheap either. You'll spend more money in parts to make it work than what the car is worth. Even if you went with a used stock 5.0 from an 88 it would still be fairly pricey and at the end of the day you'll still get smoked by a new Camry. It'd be cheaper to put a turbo on it but even if you did that Camry would still give you a run for your money.
Larger injectors, throttle bodies, and mass air meters don't make any power, they support power. What I mean is it they're too small they can make your car not perform up to optimum but going to larger when they're not needed won't gain you any power.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kameroncousins1]

Ha yeah I figured there wouldn't be much I could do without a while swap. Which in the far future if I do want to swap I'll be moving up to a coyote. But they are pricey so it'll be quite a while. But Im just seeing if there is anything that'll just give it a bit of more toque really. My main goals is to restore and then focus hardcore on the ride quality and maintenance. So I was looking for ideas. Would I be able to swap out for a T5 tranny or some other transmission? Or is there a bunch of things if have to attack when I'd do that? I feel like that would be the one upgrade that would help a little in performance and wouldn't require an overhaul.

 

[mg man 75]

t-5 is fairly simple since the cars came out with them. Turbo swap is about the simpliest and probably the easiest. Trans fit, acessories swap over, Just a few wire changes and computer swap. Now future upgrades on that can get to be fun. I done the swap on mine. Maurice

 

[kameroncousins1]

The only thing I have with turbo is that unless I've been going at research spend, the kits can be pricey when it comes with all of the components and needed things to allow the car to handle the power. How was the performance compared to your old tranny?

 

[ohc230]

The T-5 is a good place to start and will drop a full second off a 1/4 mile E.T.

A simple upgrade that you can do right now (that won't cost you money) would be to advance the initial ignition timing to 19-20 degrees. this will give you better throttle response and a small bump in torque.

Instead of spending money on a cold air intake, you can simply remove the intake muffler baffles (pull of your intake muffler and look inside). With the baffles removed, the stock air box will flow more than enough to make 300 HP.

The 2.3L engine is far from a slug; in either in turbo charged or N/A form. It's a very sturdy engine, which can handle a lot of HP (over 400) with a set of forged pistons. Unlike the 5.0L, you won't have to replace the crank or head to make decent HP.

One of the most important aspects of building a F.I. 2300, is having the ability to tune the fuel system and I would start there after doing a T-5 swap. There are a few products on the market that can enable this; they range from $350 to $650.

If you are interested in turbocharging; you'll be better off buying parts separately. There's a long list to go through and you can kind of build up a cache of parts gradually if budget is a concern.

 

[kameroncousins1]

Thanks for all of that info. I've look at a lot if places online and they all just say the same thing. Turbo, junk, or swap. But those were good suggestions. I know this post is about the engine but any suggestions on how to get the best cruising car? I'm looking to upgrade to a IRS when I can, getting sub frame connectors wielded on, strut tower bars and maybe a new sway bar, but what could you suggest? Any recommendations on shocks that won't lower the car too much but have a good ride? I appreciate the help guys. I'm trying to learn as much as possible so I can love this car. ?

 

[145566]

Thanks for all of that info. I've look at a lot if places online and they all just say the same thing. Turbo, junk, or swap. But those were good suggestions. I know this post is about the engine but any suggestions on how to get the best cruising car? I'm looking to upgrade to a IRS when I can, getting sub frame connectors wielded on, strut tower bars and maybe a new sway bar, but what could you suggest? Any recommendations on shocks that won't lower the car too much but have a good ride? I appreciate the help guys. I'm trying to learn as much as possible so I can love this car. ?

Springs are what will lower the car. For cruising I'd go w a progressive rate spring. Ford racing has about the most subtle drop and they ride well. Stiff but not too stiff. https://lmr.com/item/M5300B/79-04-Mustang-Ford-Racing-Progressive-Rate-Lowering-Spring-Kit

 

[ohc230]

I've looked at a lot if places online and they all just say the same thing. Turbo, junk, or swap.

Yeah, I think there are quite a few people out there that are unfamiliar with the potential of the 2.3l engine platform. The 2.3L engine can make considerable amounts of HP either N/A or with a power adder. There are numerous examples.

If your goal is to improve performance, it might be worth your while to consider your overall vehicle weight and go on a reduction plan. There are quite a few areas where you can compromise and reduce weight. The IRS suspension isn't one of those areas. I would be quick to agree that it would make a nice addition, but at the price of acceleration, I'd be looking into acquiring light weight wheels with good tires and a aluminum drive shaft with the T-5 transmission first.

 

[kameroncousins1]

I am going to be switching to a new aluminum drive shaft soon, and I've thought about a lighter fly wheel. And I have a convertible so it's already missing the weight of a full roof. ?. I can't think of much to replace that would change the weight by a decent amount. Ideas? But do any of you guys happen to know of any lightly larger other intake manifolds that actually fit this engine?

 

[ohc230]

The intake manifold that came with your car is a pretty good one right out of the box. When used on a modest turbo application, it's common to remove inner the walls on the upper plenum and open the ports on the lower half. If done properly, these modifications will produce HP gains above 3500 RPM. For N/A engines, one would have to run a camshaft that would push peak HP above 6,000 RPM in order to notice gains in power.

Esslinger engineering sells manifolds that are mostly aimed at Sprint and Ministock racers. Most of those are designed to fit their aftermarket heads and I think all but one of their designs are for carbureted engines.

On the weight reduction, It's a long list. I was going to go over a few areas on my build thread, but I need some time to compile a complete list. Put it this way, they make all kinds of light weight parts for your Fox Mustang; body parts/panels, bumpers, window glass, seats, door panels, K-members, control arms, brakes, wheels, aluminum head, exhaust header, aluminum radiator, bolts & hardware.

Anyhow, you can make a 4 cylinder Mustang really light, at which point you won't need a lot of HP to have decent performance.

 

[kameroncousins1]

That actually gave me a good idea. All of the little things add up instead of thinking of just big things. The glass is one I haven't thought of that I know could bare to lose some weight. When you're done with your threat I'd love it if you posted it here. But it's so nice hearing people who are giving great advice and are knowledgeable. So since the gains would be over 6000rpm I don't think I'd go out of my way to find a select camshaft, but what would I look for in order to find a compatible and better camshaft? I don't think I'd be over 6000 rpm unless I'm highway driving.

 

[ohc230]

To clarify a bit, HP is a function of engine speed and even more so on small N/A motors.

Generally speaking, when you're looking to increase HP in a N/A motor, changing the cam lift profile so it increases lift and duration, will change the speed range where effective HP is produced, usually at the expense of some low speed torque. Finding the right camshaft for your engine, will depend on what you want out of it and how you intend to use it. No doubt, a new cam can make a big difference in HP, but it must be supported with the right tuning.

If you had a carbureted Mustang, you could throw in just about any 2.3 cam you desired and it would at least idle and run; not so with your speed density F.I. system, which is hypersensitive to changes in manifold vacuum. This is why tuning devices or stand alone ECU's are required for larger HP gains when you're dealing with a fuel injected car and very worthwhile in my opinion. Basically, they unlock HP.

Your car will handle a very mild camshaft upgrade without running issues, but still, in order to optimize performance, the fuel system should be tuned.


If you're looking for more performance out of your engine, than you may as well put a cam in there that will make some HP and that means that you will be using a little more RPM to make that power. Just to give you an idea; the difference in power between the stock 4600 HP RPM peak and a 6000 RPM HP peak, is about 40-50 extra HP.

 

[145566]

To clarify a bit, HP is a function of engine speed and even more so on small N/A motors.

Generally speaking, when you're looking to increase HP in a N/A motor, changing the cam lift profile so it increases lift and duration, will change the speed range where effective HP is produced, usually at the expense of some low speed torque. Finding the right camshaft for your engine, will depend on what you want out of it and how you intend to use it. No doubt, a new cam can make a big difference in HP, but it must be supported with the right tuning.

If you had a carbureted Mustang, you could throw in just about any 2.3 cam you desired and it would at least idle and run; not so with your speed density F.I. system, which is hypersensitive to changes in manifold vacuum. This is why tuning devices or stand alone ECU's are required for larger HP gains when you're dealing with a fuel injected car and very worthwhile in my opinion. Basically, they unlock HP.

Your car will handle a very mild camshaft upgrade without running issues, but still, in order to optimize performance, the fuel system should be tuned.


If you're looking for more performance out of your engine, than you may as well put a cam in there that will make some HP and that means that you will be using a little more RPM to make that power. Just to give you an idea; the difference in power between the stock 4600 HP RPM peak and a 6000 RPM HP peak, is about 40-50 extra HP.

Are you saying that the stock heads stop making power at 4600 or are you saying that the stock valvetrain won't let it rev past 4600?
Don't mislead him into thinking that just a camp swap will gain him 50 hp. Surely to gain that much power it'll take some cylinder head work. A cam swap w stock heads isn't going to gain all that much. Tell him what else is needed for a camp swap like valve springs, etc, etc. If you're not doing your own labor it'll be around $700 or some crap. Then you'll prob need a tune which isn't cheap either. All of that and without any cylinder head upgrade I bet you gain 10 hp.

 

[ohc230]

Historically, I've been reluctant to produce a resume' for any forum, as I think it can detract from and influence forum topics; perhaps even dissuade other members from giving inputs and I really enjoy listening to and learning from others experiences. I guess what I'm trying to convey here, is that I try my best to give useful advice based on experience.

With that said, I will say that I have invested quite a few years in the automotive sciences and a fair amount of time as an engine builder, so my advice is based on actual experiences building, machining and tuning engines for people.

I really hate to truncate my posts in lieu of more thorough explanations, but I always seem to run short on time. Rather than offer long winded explanations, I find it more useful to develop conversations in shorter strings as I find that most people will seek out more information on their own and in some cases, educate the rest of us.

To answer your questions; the stock camshaft will inhibit power, not the necessarily the head. I mentioned the fuel system as a bottle neck already. There's enough airflow through the stock head, with the right camshaft, to produce over 150 HP, when coupled with an 11:1 CR, which can be achieved by milling the stock head.

The stock head will take up to .450" of valve lift before the guide bosses need to be machined. A few companies make cams in that lift range and springs which will support 140-150 HP.

We can talk about the exhaust which would be needed, but I think that would probably be a topic of it's own.

Hopefully I answered some of your questions.

OHC.

 

[145566]

Historically, I've been reluctant to produce a resume' for any forum, as I think it can detract from and influence forum topics; perhaps even dissuade other members from giving inputs and I really enjoy listening to and learning from others experiences. I guess what I'm trying to convey here, is that I try my best to give useful advice based on experience.

With that said, I will say that I have invested quite a few years in the automotive sciences and a fair amount of time as an engine builder, so my advice is based on actual experiences building, machining and tuning engines for people.

I really hate to truncate my posts in lieu of more thorough explanations, but I always seem to run short on time. Rather than offer long winded explanations, I find it more useful to develop conversations in shorter strings as I find that most people will seek out more information on their own and in some cases, educate the rest of us.

To answer your questions; the stock camshaft will inhibit power, not the necessarily the head. I mentioned the fuel system as a bottle neck already. There's enough airflow through the stock head, with the right camshaft, to produce over 150 HP, when coupled with an 11:1 CR, which can be achieved by milling the stock head.

The stock head will take up to .450" of valve lift before the guide bosses need to be machined. A few companies make cams in that lift range and springs which will support 140-150 HP.

We can talk about the exhaust which would be needed, but I think that would probably be a topic of it's own.

Hopefully I answered some of your questions.

OHC.

You did mostly... So the stock head can take .450 lift? With the stock compression ratio and stock head, how much hp he making w a .450 lift cam and at what rpm? You said a .450 cam will support 140-150 hp, but supporting and making hp are two different things. For example, say X mass air meter will "support" up to 300 hp but adding the same X mass air meter isn't going to make any power, it just won't be a restriction as long as the motor isn't making over 300 hp. How much power will a .450 lift cam makes if all else remains the same?
Try not to muddy the waters with a "built engine" vs just a cam upgrade. In order to spin this motor up high enough to gain the mentioned 50 hp what all is needed? Head work, or no head work? Could you give a typical ballpark price figure for the avg 2.3 motor making 150-160 n/a hp? I'm mean if one has to pay someone to pull the engine, pay a machine shop for head work, install the cam and valve train, and then put the motor back in, and then all of the added fuel components and tune. Don't forget the cost of disposables too like gaskets and bolts. Just so no one gets confused and thinks that a $200 cam (or whatever they run) is all it will cost to get him into the 160 hp range if that's not the case.

 

[Stustu07]

Lol he's looking at a lot of dollars... I've been looking into these things... He would need and hope all internals are good, but he's need new hla's, new springs, cam, bigger fuel injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, most probably a new exhaust manifold and matching exhaust system as 2"-2.25" won't cut it (even though they say that's enough for 300 hp), high flow cat, perforated muffler, tubing, all new gaskets everywhere, need someone to reinforce the fuel rail or purchase an aftermarket one.. Most probably new motor mounts and trans mount. And yes he will need some head work compression will need to be changed... And then if he does need work in the motor, he would need to get it machined, new rods and pins, new forged pistons, the list goes on.. an unopened 25+ year old motor holds a lot of secrets and surprises it like opening a can of worms lol you just need to be prepared but maybe you'll get lucky and can avoid the machine shop for the bottom end... (I'm not including something to tune the ecu because I've heard stock ecu can handle under 200 hp, tuning would need to be done using idle screw and adjustable fpr)

He's looking at a lot of money if things go south when working on the block... Then after all this for an extra "X" amount of cash he can turbo or super charge the car lol... This game is all about the money you're willing to invest in it.. These motors aren't cheap to build I'd give a rough estimate of 1000$-2000$ with labour and parts if you aren't going to do anything yourself.. (The amount I said depends if you're going with used parts you buy on forums/ebay/craigslist/amazon/swap meet/ect, or new parts and how good you are at shopping around and doing research on parts, just the work alone will be around 300$-800$ depending the place maybe more if they want to take advantage)

OR you can go on a forum like TurboFord and get necessary parts and build a turbo motor for cheap... I got quoted 600$ to build a stock turbo motor with around 225 hp then you'd need to find a ecu and VAM maybe 250$ more lol (that's not because I know the guy and he was including a bunch of little odds and ends in the build...) so I'd say 1000$ if you shop around.. Anyways there's a lot of options...

 

[145566]

Lol he's looking at a lot of dollars... I've been looking into these things... He would need and hope all internals are good, but he's need new hla's, new springs, cam, bigger fuel injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, most probably a new exhaust manifold and matching exhaust system as 2"-2.25" won't cut it (even though they say that's enough for 300 hp), high flow cat, perforated muffler, tubing, all new gaskets everywhere, need someone to reinforce the fuel rail or purchase an aftermarket one.. Most probably new motor mounts and trans mount. And yes he will need some head work compression will need to be changed... And then if he does need work in the motor, he would need to get it machined, new rods and pins, new forged pistons, the list goes on.. an unopened 25+ year old motor holds a lot of secrets and surprises it like opening a can of worms lol you just need to be prepared but maybe you'll get lucky and can avoid the machine shop for the bottom end... (I'm not including something to tune the ecu because I've heard stock ecu can handle under 200 hp, tuning would need to be done using idle screw and adjustable fpr)

He's looking at a lot of money if things go south when working on the block... Then after all this for an extra "X" amount of cash he can turbo or super charge the car lol... This game is all about the money you're willing to invest in it.. These motors aren't cheap to build I'd give a rough estimate of 1000$-2000$ with labour and parts if you aren't going to do anything yourself.. (The amount I said depends if you're going with used parts you buy on forums/ebay/craigslist/amazon/swap meet/ect, or new parts and how good you are at shopping around and doing research on parts, just the work alone will be around 300$-800$ depending the place maybe more if they want to take advantage)

OR you can go on a forum like TurboFord and get necessary parts and build a turbo motor for cheap... I got quoted 600$ to build a stock turbo motor with around 225 hp then you'd need to find a ecu and VAM maybe 250$ more lol (that's not because I know the guy and he was including a bunch of little odds and ends in the build...) so I'd say 1000$ if you shop around.. Anyways there's a lot of options...

Yeah I hear ya. Ohc230 seems very knowledgeable in the 2.3 game (which I am not) but it seems like he's leaving a lot out when he says it's easy to make power with them. It's easy to make power in anything as long as money is no object but that's seldom the case when one is starting with a car like the car in question. I just didn't want the op to be thinking that a cam swap is easy and the answer to him to not being slow. It seems like it'd take a major motor build just to gain say 40-60 hp and at the end of the he still will run a 14 second 14 mile. I imagine a low boost turbo kit would probably be cheaper than an n/a motor build that would make comparable power.

 

[Stustu07]

With what I said he'd be closer to 200hp lol but yeah it is cheaper to build turbo depending how you shop and look at it.. You're basically doing everything you'd do with a turbo build except without the turbo lol

Also ohc is very knowledgeable, he's built 2.3 turbo, NA, and super charged.. I think he might have not said a price because it varies on you and your builder... And by saying a price like I did someone can build it and be like "no it cost more" or "no it cost less"... No one likes having fingers pointed at them and the best way to avoid it is to not put a price lol

 

[145566]

With what I said he'd be closer to 200hp lol but yeah it is cheaper to build turbo depending how you shop and look at it.. You're basically doing everything you'd do with a turbo build except without the turbo lol

Also ohc is very knowledgeable, he's built 2.3 turbo, NA, and super charged.. I think he might have not said a price because it varies on you and your builder... And by saying a price like I did someone can build it and be like "no it cost more" or "no it cost less"... No one likes having fingers pointed at them and the best way to avoid it is to not put a price lol

I know, I wasn't trying to get anyone in trouble or cause conflict. Nor was I looking for an exact figure. I just didn't want the op thinking that he'd be spending any less than what he's seen the turbo kits advertised for. I also wanted him to know that there's a lot more involved than just putting in a cam in and making much of a difference if he didn't change anything else like upgraded heads etc.