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Discussion Starter #1
ok i've heard all the arguments x pipe vs h pipe

what is a MAC prochamber considered? and currently i have MAC mufflers prochamber and stock headers what is the best exhaust improvements i could do? and i really don't care what it sounds like fart can to super beast doesn't matter just the power increase
 

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Discussion Starter #2
no one knows what the prochamber is considered?
 

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I consider group it with the H pipe only because it gives a deep bassy tone like an H, and not a raspy brrrraaapp like an X.
 

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ItsaV6iswear! said:
ok i've heard all the arguments x pipe vs h pipe

what is a MAC prochamber considered? and currently i have MAC mufflers prochamber and stock headers what is the best exhaust improvements i could do? and i really don't care what it sounds like fart can to super beast doesn't matter just the power increase
Doesn't sound like you need to change a thing! At least until you pull the heads, change the cams, then you can throw on a set of headers.:laughlitt Personally, I'm aiming for a o/r pro chamber w/magnaflow catback 2 1/2" tubes.
 

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"I could have had..."

If you already have the prochamber and mufflers, the logical way to extract more power from the exhaust would be with long-tube headers. This will net you about 10 more hp - and be advised, they are a beast to install. Prepare to drop the K-member as step 1, no lie...

If it were me, I'd keep the exhaust you've got and look elsewhere for power or performance. More gear will always help your et's, and a blower will usually get you 100hp or more.

If you want to stay na, you'll spend about the same amount for 60hp with ported heads, cams, etc.

tripleblack

ItsaV6iswear! said:
ok i've heard all the arguments x pipe vs h pipe

what is a MAC prochamber considered? and currently i have MAC mufflers prochamber and stock headers what is the best exhaust improvements i could do? and i really don't care what it sounds like fart can to super beast doesn't matter just the power increase
 

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And don't forget if you changer over to long tube headers, you'll have to buy a different mid pipe also. Mac does make a Pro Chamber for long tubes, they even make one with cats now so us guys with emissions testing can have the sound too.
 

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I have read/heard that the Pro chamber adds the most HP than any midpipe by a ton, nothing even close, 32whp with the mufflers and headers of ourse. Does this sound right? Considering headers are good for 10whp and a catback 3-5whp the Pro chamber must be the best with the potential for adding 15+ whp, can anyone confirm this? I am looking at changing my SHM #2730's for a set of Hitech stage 2's with the pro chamber but may stay wit the stock catback that I just had replced the PYPES catback I had with the optional Race Pro mufflers(a $40. option for quieter sound than the Violators, yeah right!) THe drone at 2k was enough to rattle fillings and became untolerable. I still hae the PYPES catted X-pipe, 2.5" and just have the stock mufflers and tail pipes at 2.25" but the way I see it the gasses have cooled by the time they are through the mufflers and 2.25" is enough and actually likely keeps the gas velocity up as the smaller pipe would even if and especially since the volume of the exhaust gasses has condensed. Thoughts?
 

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MAC LT's, Prochamber and Flowmaster 40's



John
 

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Marathon

Wow, what a paragraph!

OK, my opinions...

I've heard of amazing rwhp gains from midpipes on stock 99-04 Mustang GTs - but never seen them, nor seen them proved in any shootout. 32rwhp would be nearly a 40HP gain at the flywhell... Sorry, I just don't believe it. I don't have ANYTHING against the MAC ProChamber, but no way will you net 32 hp at the rear wheels from it - more like 8, MAYBE 10 on a perfect day and a kind dyno.

Top quality after cats WITH a full exhaust might contribute another 2, maybe 3.

LT's add 10 or 12, pretty reliably. 20-25 (and I think 20 in real life) is the more likely result.

Just some background: Manufacturers of these kinds of bolt on parts ALWAYS test them on the strongest supercharged Cobra they can find (and we all know its not hard to get one of them to put out 500 rwhp), and then advertise: "Our stuff gained 32 rwhp in a Mustang".

Cars with highly modified motors CAN see big increases from these exhaust changes, mainly because they are resricted by the stock exhausts. Our more mundane stock or mildly modified cars are NOT restricted nearly so much, so the gains are modest.

Earlier Mustangs (particularly the 5.0's, but also the early 4.6's with 6 cats) see bigger gains because their stock exhaust is garbage.

The 99-04 stock exhausts are decent and made of stainless steel. (I know, they look orangish and aren't pretty, so it's not show quality SS, but it IS stainless steel). The cats are more modern, low restriction types and work pretty darn well. Going to an xpipe with just 2 cats DOES gain some power, and that's where the 8 hp comes from. Eliminating cats altogether actually hurts the tone (imo - and "good sound" is one of those subjective things that means it all depends on what the OWNER likes to hear), makes the car illegal in all 50 states (although you're more likely to get caught in a state that does emission testing, of course), and gains about 1 - 2 rwhp (though cars with built motors and blowers gain MORE, every time, count on it).

If these cars could gain 50rwhp just from an exhaust, believe me, we'd know about it.

This is NOT directed just at MAC products - NONE of the expensive SS systems really does any better. They might live longer, that's all, or have some fractional hp advantage that hardly offsets their high price.

Oh, and the MAC ProChambers are sort of unique. They are similar to an X-pipe (look at their shape), and function essentially the same, with a small chamber (hence the name) located at the center of the X. They are NOT H pipes. I think of them as modified X-pipes.

I have read/heard that the Pro chamber adds the most HP than any midpipe by a ton, nothing even close, 32whp with the mufflers and headers of ourse. Does this sound right? Considering headers are good for 10whp and a catback 3-5whp the Pro chamber must be the best with the potential for adding 15+ whp, can anyone confirm this? I am looking at changing my SHM #2730's for a set of Hitech stage 2's with the pro chamber but may stay wit the stock catback that I just had replced the PYPES catback I had with the optional Race Pro mufflers(a $40. option for quieter sound than the Violators, yeah right!) THe drone at 2k was enough to rattle fillings and became untolerable. I still hae the PYPES catted X-pipe, 2.5" and just have the stock mufflers and tail pipes at 2.25" but the way I see it the gasses have cooled by the time they are through the mufflers and 2.25" is enough and actually likely keeps the gas velocity up as the smaller pipe would even if and especially since the volume of the exhaust gasses has condensed. Thoughts?
 

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I got the figure from Hitech who got it from their dyno. I'll find out what the car they had tested the system on had for mods. THX!
 

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Think we could get an un-biased pro's and con's of both the Off-road H and the off-road X?
 

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Bias or beauty-in-the-ear-of-the-beholder?

Think we could get an un-biased pro's and con's of both the Off-road H and the off-road X?
If the question is which yields more power, its the X (by a nose, which is to say there is a measurable difference, but not a big one).

If the question is which sounds better, THAT is where it all gets subjective.

My personal opinion is that the H sounds better and the tiny difference in power output is a reasonable trade-off.

Full disclosure: I still have the stock gear on my Mustang.
 

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i have a question about long tube instalation. if i do long tubes while im in the middle of the pi swap, will i have to drop the k member? or will the lack of heads make it much easier?
 

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I gained 18 HP from a Mac Prochamber on my Supercharged 03 GT. I went from a stock midpipe to that. We did it at my buddies dyno shop. Did a baseline run, put the lift up swapped out the midpipe and did another run with about an hour and put on 18hp. I have jba headers and magnaflow mufflers. I think its a good product and I like the tone it gave me as well. I dont think it will give you 18 HP on a mostly stock car but I do think you will be happy with it.
 

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i have a question about long tube instalation. if i do long tubes while im in the middle of the pi swap, will i have to drop the k member? or will the lack of heads make it much easier?
You may have enough room with the heads off, if not, you'll be able to disconnect the motor mounts and lift it a little to get whatever more room you need. It should be a lot easier with the heads off, but its still a pita.
 

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Pretty much everything, the headers are not shaped to be installed easily, they are shaped to work well, there just isn't a whiole lot of room in there, the block, the fender well, steering linkage, bellhousing, k member, firewall, everything but air gets in the way and makes it hard to manipulate them into place, but it can be done, and along the way you'll likely invent of few new swear words and need a few band-aids. Its not fun, but it is worth it. And just so you know, if you ever have to pull the tranny to replace the clutch, etc the headers have to be disconnected from the heads and that in itself is no picnic, the bolts are not easy to get to and the primaries get in the way, you have to be creative with the use of your tools, wrenches, sockets, extensions, u-joints... make sure you have a good set of tools and and assortment of the above. Other than that, just take your time and remember rule number 1... always start all your bolts a few turns by hand before tightening anything.
 

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OK, FINALLY GOT LT's! TOOK 3 YEARS OF FIGHTING THEM

After Logan motorsports told me that the Edelbrock Victors made more power than ANY header they EVER tested I strongly considered them, then when Keith Logan heard that the header was being discontinued he said he was calling his rep right away and I ordered a set right away. Iam about to install my 2V Teksid motor I had built. This motor will have an SVO intake port matched to the Nick McKinney PI heads(210/175CFM flow). The cams are from Comp, 230*/234* on a 110*LSA and a 106* centerline. Compression is a decent 11:1 with forged and balanced assembly. HO oil pump and 255lph fuel pump. 24lb. injectors. And the dreaded headers. These are a racing header, stepped and with a merge collector. I was told the easiest way to install them was to leave one side motor mount bolt off and have the other side on about half way. Jack up ther side with no bolt and gain enough room to get at the bolts, repeat the other side, sound feasible? What typer of bolt makes this easier? Allen head with washer? Then a socket or allen wrench could be used. 12 point? Suggestions? How big is the BOX these macs have? Logan's said to construct a box and I took that as about at least 8" across and 12" long. They said it increases torque a lot. Torque seems to be what the gain is from LT's and not so much HP even though both are related. Torque is that pushed back in the seat feeling that I enjoy! I could get the MAC mid-pipe or fab my own with an $80. Summit midpipe and make a box and have a friend weld and done. However the point of the box is to get the hot gasses together and cause more scavenging as they leave the box and thus draw more exhaust out and into the box and repeat the process, is that correct? THX, Mark
PS: I figured with the higher compression, cams and heads that LT's might be worth more than 10WHP, more like the 32 that hitech gets with theirs with a tune. Add btheir cams and theyn have many cars over 300whp with stock heads and intakes.
 

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Luck

I would definitely spend the extra and get the MAC rather than try to fab one - the rust-proofing of the MAC alone is worth the difference, and getting everything JUST right can be tough doing one-off pieces under the car.

We could argue all day on what mods will generate what end results at the rear wheels. The list of members who have submitted disappointing results far below the "estimated power gain" once they finally put the car on a dyno is quite long.

Cams are the voodoo of modding engines, and can make lots of power all by themselves... To a point. For anything beyond "stage 2" you are looking at futher engine mods - forged dish pistons for valve clearance, or flycuts machined to accomplish the same thing, stronger valve springs and retainers to prevent valve float, etc, etc.

Ported heads to match can help the na picture quite a bit.

After Logan motorsports told me that the Edelbrock Victors made more power than ANY header they EVER tested I strongly considered them, then when Keith Logan heard that the header was being discontinued he said he was calling his rep right away and I ordered a set right away. Iam about to install my 2V Teksid motor I had built. This motor will have an SVO intake port matched to the Nick McKinney PI heads(210/175CFM flow). The cams are from Comp, 230*/234* on a 110*LSA and a 106* centerline. Compression is a decent 11:1 with forged and balanced assembly. HO oil pump and 255lph fuel pump. 24lb. injectors. And the dreaded headers. These are a racing header, stepped and with a merge collector. I was told the easiest way to install them was to leave one side motor mount bolt off and have the other side on about half way. Jack up ther side with no bolt and gain enough room to get at the bolts, repeat the other side, sound feasible? What typer of bolt makes this easier? Allen head with washer? Then a socket or allen wrench could be used. 12 point? Suggestions? How big is the BOX these macs have? Logan's said to construct a box and I took that as about at least 8" across and 12" long. They said it increases torque a lot. Torque seems to be what the gain is from LT's and not so much HP even though both are related. Torque is that pushed back in the seat feeling that I enjoy! I could get the MAC mid-pipe or fab my own with an $80. Summit midpipe and make a box and have a friend weld and done. However the point of the box is to get the hot gasses together and cause more scavenging as they leave the box and thus draw more exhaust out and into the box and repeat the process, is that correct? THX, Mark
PS: I figured with the higher compression, cams and heads that LT's might be worth more than 10WHP, more like the 32 that hitech gets with theirs with a tune. Add btheir cams and theyn have many cars over 300whp with stock heads and intakes.
 
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