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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking for some kind of handling in a box solution to my 88 vert acting like a stock 88 vert. Heard lots of praise for MM and Griggs but neither have replied to my inquiry in over a week, so I thought I'd ask here. Budget is up to $5K, but if I can get the 90% solution in $2K, I'll be happier! I've got the 88 T-Bird (8.8 rear end/disc brakes/3:73) swap.

1. Straight cornering...what's the best package out there? Not worried about launches. I also want maintenance free (no rewelding K-members!), hassle free, hence buying a kit vice trying to save a few bucks piecing together from 20 companies.

2. How much ride comfort is lost using derlin vice poly bushings? What % better handling to you get. If it's 5% better handling/90% worse ride or the other way around is what I'm trying to figure out.

3. I think this one's unique to MM. How much better handling to you get with the forward offset A-Arms? It's some extra work to get the tires to fit, so I want to know if it's worth it.

You laugh, but with the top down, I've got lower CG:smoke:
 

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If you go to the autocross portion of the forum it has guides for this already.
 

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I'm suprised they haven't gotten back to you. I can't answer any of yoru questions per say, but here's my situation.
I have an 88 lx coupe that had been lowered but I wanted a box type solution just like you. I contacted them via email and requestoed a quote for redoing my suspension. I began by redoing the rear first. I caught some heat for this as several poeple told me to do the front first. I didn't want to because i knew the rear was causing me more issues than the front. I went with a coilover kit, eliminated the upper control arms, went with the xd lowers,full length subframe connectors, full panhard bar, and torque arm setup. I was extremely impressed with quality of parts and customer service. I have about 2000 in parts just in the rear.
I'm very pleased with the improvements that rebuilding the rear suspension made. Now i have the confidence to accellerate out of corners, not just on striaghts. It eliminated wheel hops, and made it feel like i had some actual traction in the rear.
I haven't messed with the front yet, but my next project is to go tubular with coilovers in front. I plan to keep the oem wheel offest though. I've already got tire rubbing, and half the reason i'm donig this is to replace factory bushings/ball joints as well as improve performance. I'll have about 2000 in the front also, if not a little more. Coilovers, k member, a arms, stuts, strut brace, sway bars, and k member brace. I'm also going with a manual rack at the same time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Looked into the manual racks...great for racing (maintaining speed) but terrible DD. Unfortunately my car needs to be a reliable DD first and toy second. According to MM you only save 16 lbs going with the manual rack which isn't nearly as much as I would have thought.

My questions were asked after reading about 500 posts of handling, which answered all but a handful. I will of course keep digging as I'm sure they're out there somewhere, but sometimes I just take the easy way out and post a thread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
And what kind of grip can you get from a MM Max Grip or Sport Racing box? Is 1.0g out of the question?
 

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I think you would be very close to 1g. i found an article where they had outfitted a 90LX with one of the mm grip boxes, and it placed in the top 10 of all cars tested, in fact i think the 90 fox was third. It beat modified vettes, vipers, ferarri, and porsches in the slalom testing. http://www.maximummotorsports.com/content/articles/pdf/Slalom.pdf
I don't see any skidpad results though.
Its mentioned in the details of the road and track box.. and around your 2k range you would like.
 

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Looked into the manual racks...great for racing (maintaining speed) but terrible DD. Unfortunately my car needs to be a reliable DD first and toy second. According to MM you only save 16 lbs going with the manual rack which isn't nearly as much as I would have thought.

My questions were asked after reading about 500 posts of handling, which answered all but a handful. I will of course keep digging as I'm sure they're out there somewhere, but sometimes I just take the easy way out and post a thread.
From what I've read about flaming river manual racks, is that at speed there's no differnece compared to power steering. But, parallel parking is a pain, but really not that big of a deal. I'm not trying to change your mind.. but i read a few horror stories about people rehabbing thier power system units, and now i'm scared. I don't DD mine so i don't care much about parking the car.
 

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I'm surprised they didnt get back to you. I inquiered about peicing my suspension together, I cant afford to do it all at once and dont want any mods to clash with others and he pointed me in the right direction with what to do first.
One thing I would recommend is find the Mustang Performance Handbook 2. It is no longer being printed but, they are out there. Though they are a bit pricey but, if you plan on keeping the Fox, its worth it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Maybe they don't like money.

So jimmy77, you think the road & track box would get me there? Is the added $ for the max grip box worth it if you're just interested in cornering?
 

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I have some of the MM components, and have experimented a bit, so here's my 2 cents.

I bought the starter box and have been getting other parts together over time. If I had to do it over again, here is what I would recommend:

Get adjustable rear lower control arms. My car leans back like crazy after I got the starter box and the "normal" lowers. Also, it will help you get corner weights evened. That said, if you go max grip box, that comes with coilovers all around, so no need for adjustable arms. But if you stay conventional springs, again, get the adjustables.

I did a poor mans 3 link (PHB with only passenger side upper), and while it's dreadfully poor at controlling pinion angle, it gives a taste for how a 3 link/torque arm setup feels. And it feels awesome. Corners great, gives good balance, and the ride is better too. If your going for grip, get the torque arm and PHB, don't do just PHB and uppers cause it plain sucks in comparison.

I have little done to the front of my car besides shocks, springs, all poly bushings (besides front control arms), solid steering shaft, and CC plates. I have poly bushings on my transmission too. My car is quite loud inside simply from the exhaust, so I probably cannot comment much on the noise factor, but from my POV the poly bushings did NOT add much noise or vibration, but DID increase responsiveness and kept the transmission and engine from moving around as much as they used to. Also, the solid steering shaft was a good investment, as steering feel is noticeably better and helped clean up some of the slop.

Basically, IMO if you got the time and money, max grip box alllll the way. Otherwise, Road and Track is fine, but get a torque arm.
 

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I agree with generalguy.. don't have much to add.
if you want to realize the full corning capability, you should go with the max grip package if you can. The price is steep, that's why i've only done the rear so far. The front, is my winter project.
I will tell you that if you go for the max grip you won't be disappointed. I've only done half of it and it nice! I haven't had the rear kick out on me since i did the rear. I drive the same it just hasn't done it... i haven't reeaaaly tried though.
Coilovers give you easy adjustability, something i wanted. Cause the only mod my coupe had when i got it was racecraft specific rate lowering springs complete with shot isolators and bushings.
I'm kinda curious about the derlin too. I was looking into that when i do the front, so i'd like to hear something abotu the performance gain vs harshenss of derlin to poly.
Other than that.. call and ask for chuck at MM. he quoted me my stuff, and i talked to him a few times abotu different options. Great customer service.. answered all my questions and told me pros and cons to differnt ways of doing things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
thanks for the gouge...the picture is starting to come into focus. So there's nothing in the MM MG box that is strictly launch oriented?
 

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I can think of nothing in the grip boxs which is "launch" orriented only. The torque arm will keep your pinion better in check and allows for proper axle articulation, which helps launch. The stronger, bind free, lower control arms will also help launch. Subframe connectors don't hurt either. So yeah, there are parts that help launch, but also help cornering. It's just that much better. The stock setup had a whole lot of compromises in the name of cheapness and isolation. Your removing a lot of those compromises.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Certainly don't mind dual purpose suspension upgrades, just don't want to shell out cash for MM components that won't help me reach my goal.

Any idea how much difference the MG package makes over the R&T?
 

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If you're wanting to put together a nice handling car for less money, you could use UPR Products rear control arms and front K-member kit, but use MM coilovers. If you wanted to save even more money, you could just use our coilovers on a set of Tokico dampeners and be done.

AFM members get a 10% discount on UPR Products on our web store. :)


as for the delrin/poly debate, do I think that if you went out for one HPDE session on poly bushings and then immediately went back out in the same car on delrin bushings that you would be able to tell the difference? Maybe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Been doing research...thinking of going with UPR front end (K-mbr, A-arms, coil-overs) and MM for the rear (convert to 3-link set-up). MM is great quality, and I think their rear set-up is unbeatable, but the added strength and engineering they put into the front just isn't going to be needed in my case. UPR can duplicate their front-end set-up for about half the price.

Sharad, why do you say to use the MM coil-overs? Are the UPR one's inferrior?
 

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I would get all your springs and dampers from the same place if you're in it for cornering.
 

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As for the derlin bushings I could not get a lot of information on them I did use them on my 92 vert. and I am waiting for the rest of my parts I am going with M/M strut tower brace Strange coilovers, 10 way struts and hypercoil springs I hope to have it all back together late next week I will post the results when I get it back on the ground
 
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