Ford Mustang Forum banner

1 - 2 of 2 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Anyone know of a good quality Mustang II front suspension that i can install into my 69 Cougar. Any shops in Calgary that can do it? Also is it true that I need to change out my front oil pan to a rear oil pan because of the cross member? Photos will help. Please contact me. I need someones help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,874 Posts
Having road-raced the pony cars (mustang specific) in the late 70's in SoCal, I can suggest this.......IMHO I preferred the oem style suspension to the Mustang II conversions....much more stable, responsive & consistant. there is a slight different in the alignment specs for a street use versus track use car, but the street specs (which for the 60's cars are is the same as for the 70's mustangs- which had radial tires- otherwise the spec's are for bias ply and I guarantee you that if the alignment specs were for 1965, that will cause a handling issue with radials).....will work on the track (not excellent but good). The suspension & steering boxes/assemblies are the same ones that powered even the Cobra's in their racing prime....nearly to 180 mph & well documented 150 mph in the corners........and these same assemblies were used in just about every series production vehicle including trucks...lasting for 200k/40+ years....there is not another R&P system that has ever even come close to this in a daily use vehicle.....and the Mustang II suspension (including most every aftermarket similar type I have seen) REDUCES THE TURNING RADIUS!!!! IMHO, whether you look at this from a performance, ride or reliability aspect, the basic oem suspension & steering system is excellent.....and good quality rebuild with conventional performance mods (listed below) is all you need.


Now just another IMHO....these cars because of their basic core design are better muscled through a corner than driven.......let me explain a little better- hopefully.....with my uncles porsche, he had to drive the car through the corner because of the light front end....he could very/more easily slide if he throttled it through where with the mustang, the lighter rear end was the issue.....as long as we/I kept the rear aligned within 6" of the front through the corner, while the tires & rear end was "barking" a tad, when exiting the turn, just past the apex of the corner, full throttle (rolled on), traction/stablity was never a issue....and 300+ hp & 350+ lbs torque at 70+ mph in a corner can make for a lot of tire/chassis "barking"!

With todays tire/suspension technology, you can definitely make the stangs drive more like a porsche...but, just need to remember the basics......and controlling weight transfer & getting the best traction within the tires (road) contact patch is always what is the goal in road racing (and general handling). I would keep the suspension.

This is an excellent assessment of oem vs aftermarket suspension for the mustang…
01-20-2013, 03:19 PM by dav65mus
Expecting Too Much From Suspension?? - Page 2 - Vintage Mustang Forums
I had a MII kit in a 65 fastback I built. Unless you are doing a big block/mod motor/ls swap and need the shock towers removed any MII kit is a mistake. I have been experimenting with different suspension setups along with frame connectors during the last 15 years on 3 different 65 mustangs. The MII in a fastback, ron morris complete coilover conversion in another and stock suspension in another. After driving all 3 my conclusion is stock suspension with poly bushings, roller perches, progressive rate coil springs, and good shocks will handle as well as any other aftermarket system at a fraction of the cost. As far as steering, the borgenson conversion feels very "rack & pinion" like without the high cost, turning radius issues, and exhaust clearance problems that rack & pinion retrofit kits suffer from. You can improve the handling of your classic but you will never get the feeling of a modern car like your focus without building an entire streetrod type rolling chassis and fitting your body to it. I have been there and tried that and kept my bank account emptied trying to get modern car handing and feel.... wish I would have spent less money trying.

Dave
Poste by 22GT
There is no inherent handling advantage to the Mustang II front suspension. It's main advantage in 64-73 Mustangs is it allows the use of really large engines, such as the 4.6 DOHC. A properly set-up stock suspension can easily out-handle the MII setup. Simply doing these items from TXMAG's list would be superior to typical MII.
Arning/Shelby Drop
Roller Idler arms
Good rebuild or new steering box
Performance alignment
Roller UCA/LCA
Front sway bar around 1" in size
Monte Carlo Bar
Export Brace
Eliminating the shock towers also often eliminates a lot of triangulation bracing. Haven't seen your car, but I've seen a lot of MII conversion cars at shows that had less front end rigidity than a stock six-cylinder coupe. Sometimes people use fancy-looking cross-bracing with Heim joints to make up for it. Excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but a Heim joint is a pivot, designed to flex. Kinda the opposite of what you'd want in a chassis brace.


http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/655080-expecting-too-much-suspension-2.html





I had a MII kit in a 65 fastback I built. Unless you are doing a bigblock/mod motor/ls swap and need the shock towers removed any MII kit is a mistake. I have been experimenting with different suspension setups along with frame connectors during the last 15 years on 3 different 65 mustangs. The MII in a fastback, ron morris complete coilover conversion in another and stock suspension in another. After driving all 3 my conclusion is stock suspension with poly bushings, roller perches, progressive rate coil springs, and good shocks will handle as well as any other aftermarket system at a fraction of the cost. As far as steering, the borgenson conversion feels very "rack & pinion" like without the high cost, turning radius issues, and exhaust clearance problems that rack & pinion retrofit kits suffer from.

You can improve the handling of your classic but you will never get the feeling of a modern car like your focus without building an entire streetrod type rolling chassis and fitting your body to it. I have been there and tried that and kept my bank account emptied trying to get modern car handing and feel.... wish I would have spent less money trying.


Dave





The MII suspension has pluses and minuses. The wrong camber curve (gain) as the suspension is compressed is one of the minuses. Not much that could be done to that car at this point to fundamentally help. Sorry.


There is no inherent handling advantage to the Mustang II front suspension. It's main advantage in 64-73 Mustangs is it allows the use of really large engines, such as the 4.6 DOHC. A properly set-up stock suspension can easily outhandle the MII setup.

Simply doing these items from TXMAG's list would be superior to typical MII.

Arning/Shelby Drop
Roller Idler arms
Good rebuild or new steering box
Performance alignment
Roller UCA/LCA
Front sway bar around 1" in size
Monte Carlo Bar
Export Brace

Eliminating the shock towers also often eliminates a lot of triangulation bracing. Haven't seen your car, but I've seen a lot of MII conversion cars at shows that had less front end rigidity than a stock six-cylinder coupe. Sometimes people use fancy-looking cross-bracing with Heim joints to make up for it. Excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but a Heim joint is a pivot, designed to flex. Kinda the opposite of what you'd want in a chassis brace.


Well, having driven both quite a few miles and sometime on the same day, I can honestly say that my '66 drives ALMOST as well as my '05 Magnum, which has ESP (Electronic Stability Program). Of course, the Magnum is also a good 1,200 lbs heavier.... All I did was what Shelby did. The Arning drop, higher spring rates, competition alignment, Quick-Steer, 16:1 box, and more rubber hitting the road. Just enough understeer remains to keep it from getting "twitchy".


This is also a more recent discussion started as a rant by a suspension engineer.
The amazing power of marketing !, and gullibilty - Vintage Mustang Forums
I hope this helps.......
 
1 - 2 of 2 Posts
Top