Ford Mustang Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I keep on hearing a lot about cams so I just want to voice my opinion. Yes I have long tubes catted xpipe delete plates so if this helps the cams so be it. My gains were 49 rwhp from the cams and the long tube headers and catted xpipe. Those in my opinion are some pretty solid gains. I don't no how much rwhp you would gain just from the cams because I did not only get one mod done. The mods before the long tubes and catted xpipe and cams were cai, 410's, udp, delete plates and some suspension uca, lca, adj phbar, my rwhp was 301 with xcal 3 94 octane tune. As far as driving the car it took a bit to get it right. Thanks to Dasilva racing here in Toronto for taking about 9 hours of dyno tune to get my car to run really smooth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
about 9 hours to tune your car is just wrong. Call Pat at Steeda in Milton, he know's what he is doing and will get the car running however you like.

I keep on hearing a lot about cams so I just want to voice my opinion. Yes I have long tubes catted xpipe delete plates so if this helps the cams so be it. My gains were 49 rwhp from the cams and the long tube headers and catted xpipe. Those in my opinion are some pretty solid gains. I don't no how much rwhp you would gain just from the cams because I did not only get one mod done. The mods before the long tubes and catted xpipe and cams were cai, 410's, udp, delete plates and some suspension uca, lca, adj phbar, my rwhp was 301 with xcal 3 94 octane tune. As far as driving the car it took a bit to get it right. Thanks to Dasilva racing here in Toronto for taking about 9 hours of dyno tune to get my car to run really smooth.
 

·
Shelby Gt 350 member
Joined
·
9,239 Posts
about 9 hours to tune your car is just wrong. Call Pat at Steeda in Milton, he know's what he is doing and will get the car running however you like.
Who cares if it took them 100 hours to dyno tune it. What matters is what they charged him for it. If he paid $350 great, but if he got charged for the whole 9 hours he got hosed.:happyhapp

As far as the gains, let me see if I have this straight. I’m guessing a bit on some of these prices.

Cams: $650
Headers: $900
X-pipe: $450
Delete plates: $250
Cam and header labor (I’ll bet this is low): $800
Dyno Time (should be): $350
Total: $3400
HP gain (no graph provided so losses can not be gauged): 49
$/hp: $69.38

Going with a blower is about $48/hp if you have a shop do all the work and $40/hp if you do the install and have it tuned.

I guess if you never want to go with a blower or don’t ever see having the money to do it (if you have the money for this combo I can’t imagine not having the money for a blower though) it’s not the end of the world but the $/hp aint so hot. It costs about 30%+ more/hp to go non FI in this case.

The kicker is that the money already spent represents about half of getting a blower and this combo didn’t get anywhere near half the HP of dropping a blower on.:headscratch:

…..and I’m guessing I am a bit low on some of my cost estimates for the NA work done.
 

·
Shelby Gt 350 member
Joined
·
9,239 Posts
Way low! My first cam install alone was $1500 (P&L). Labor for a header & midpipe install is at least $600.
Well go correct my math then Mr. Total access:hihi:

That makes the hp/$ ratio even worse for the NA mods then. I know the FI estimates I made are real close, that's what my local guys charge and they are not cheap at all.

It's hard to argue with FI as being the best bang for the buck. Coming up with that kind of money all at once I can understand is a big move but considering it's advantages waiting till you can afford it and doing nothing to then sounds like a great idea......even though saving and not modding would be incredibly hard.

Man, I am so glad I can do my own work. Shops are "gettin' all the money" that's for sure. I guessed at those rates based on what I thought I would probably charge to do it (and I don't consider myself cheap). I say good for the shops, if they do a great job they should get paid for it. Work like that is not Grease Monkey work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
710 Posts
That's why I'm cheap...I went with Nitrous. Hard to beat the price.
 

·
Shelby Gt 350 member
Joined
·
9,239 Posts
That's why I'm cheap...I went with Nitrous. Hard to beat the price.
Only in the short term though. Time over money is a consideration. And as much as I am a big fan of Nitrous:happydance: it's hard to get by the fact that it is not instantly "there" like a NA and FI car is. The $/hp equasion is blurred when dealing with nitrous because it’s not a stomp of the right foot away and you have to have a full bottle. Like I said, I love the stuff. But 99% of the quick little races that I seem to get into every time I drive my car (thank god) I would not have the ability to hose the car. There just isn’t the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
Way low! My first cam install alone was $1500 (P&L). Labor for a header & midpipe install is at least $600.
Brenspeed charged me around $500 for installing the stage 2 thumprs and phaser limiters.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I got charged 200 for all the dyno time because Dasilva racing did all work to my car. Bbk long tubes catted xpipe purchase price 1100 in Canada thumpers and phasers 1000 install 1100 plus 200 for dyno tune. Total 3400 Canadian for a gain of 49 rwhp. The rest of the work was previously done everything fir about uca, lca,adj phbar, delete plates ,410 , xcal 3 that's was all about 1800. Nothing wrong with staying n/a going to get into the 11's with stock internals and almost there.
 

·
Shelby Gt 350 member
Joined
·
9,239 Posts
Nothing wrong with staying n/a going to get into the 11's with stock internals and almost there.
Nothing wrong at all. Just a comparison. The ultimate goal is not to see who can get HP the cheapest, at least for me its not.

If I had enough money I would have another S197 sitting right next to the one I have now with a 4V that spun to 9,000rpm's and was lightened up to the tune of 2900#. They would be the same cars but completely different and both liked a lot.:bigthumbsup
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
longtubes just seem like more bang for the buck to me. i witnessed a auto car last weekend gain over 30whp with adding mid length headers and matching midpipe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,650 Posts
My blower and gauges were cost effective. $35 for every flywheel horse. Well worth every penny.

But I really like the JLT/tuner package. $550 for 30hp = $18 for every hp. Anyone can install it too.

Longtubes are just so hard to install. Great power and sound but such a hassle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Do you subscribe to the theory that when you know what you are doing it should not take as long, or that when you know what you are doing it takes a little longer?

Who cares if it took them 100 hours to dyno tune it. What matters is what they charged him for it. If he paid $350 great, but if he got charged for the whole 9 hours he got hosed.:happyhapp
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
710 Posts
Yes...the refilling the bottle does stink...but I only use the N20 at the track. When I was younger i used to "street" race...but now I try to avoid it like the plague. If I was to ever hit someone...or god forbid injure I child I would never be able to forgive myself. I would have to check myself into a loony bin.

With that...there is nothing that I enjoy more than going to the track and running against my boosted buddies. I'm 2-0 against forced induction at the track. Both guys spent well over 5k each. My little bottle keeps me in front of them :) 600 for the N20 and 25 bucks to fill that tank. I go to the track 2-3 times a year. The car will be sold before I go thru 5k worth of Nitrous ;)


Only in the short term though. Time over money is a consideration. And as much as I am a big fan of Nitrous:happydance: it's hard to get by the fact that it is not instantly "there" like a NA and FI car is. The $/hp equasion is blurred when dealing with nitrous because it’s not a stomp of the right foot away and you have to have a full bottle. Like I said, I love the stuff. But 99% of the quick little races that I seem to get into every time I drive my car (thank god) I would not have the ability to hose the car. There just isn’t the time.
 

·
Shelby Gt 350 member
Joined
·
9,239 Posts
Do you subscribe to the theory that when you know what you are doing it should not take as long, or that when you know what you are doing it takes a little longer?
Both.

If you know what you are doing and you have worked on that car a whole bunch of times it should go super fast. The tuner will have a tone of files already made up, pick the closest one, tweak it a bit and ship it. In this case the tuner would be spending less time working than they billed but that is because they did the R&D a long time ago ad being able to whip right through it is the payoff. Basically they made an investment in them self. This guy will end up doing tunes i half the time they are billing.

On the other hand if they are working on a car they have never worked on before they will need to figure out all the little idiosyncrasies of that car and it will take them longer than normal. In this case they are investing in there future. But a tuner can't charge the customer for the hours the spend learing.

If they are a crap operator and don’t care about letting a half point slip here or a half point slip there they will never invest in their future by taking the time to learn so they will end up always doing sub-par work fairly quick.
 

·
Shelby Gt 350 member
Joined
·
9,239 Posts
Yes...the refilling the bottle does stink...but I only use the N20 at the track. When I was younger i used to "street" race...but now I try to avoid it like the plague. If I was to ever hit someone...or god forbid injure I child I would never be able to forgive myself. I would have to check myself into a loony bin.

With that...there is nothing that I enjoy more than going to the track and running against my boosted buddies. I'm 2-0 against forced induction at the track. Both guys spent well over 5k each. My little bottle keeps me in front of them :) 600 for the N20 and 25 bucks to fill that tank. I go to the track 2-3 times a year. The car will be sold before I go thru 5k worth of Nitrous ;)

A perfect example of having the right tool for the job.

I never understood why people have debates (arguments) about NA vs FI vs N2O. They are all great mods as long as they are used for what they offer. N2O does't work out real well with what I want to do and FI does't work that well with what you want to do. No problem, we are both right.:bigthumbsup
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,877 Posts
Both.

If you know what you are doing and you have worked on that car a whole bunch of times it should go super fast. The tuner will have a tone of files already made up, pick the closest one, tweak it a bit and ship it. In this case the tuner would be spending less time working than they billed but that is because they did the R&D a long time ago ad being able to whip right through it is the payoff. Basically they made an investment in them self. This guy will end up doing tunes i half the time they are billing.

On the other hand if they are working on a car they have never worked on before they will need to figure out all the little idiosyncrasies of that car and it will take them longer than normal. In this case they are investing in there future. But a tuner can't charge the customer for the hours the spend learing.

If they are a crap operator and don’t care about letting a half point slip here or a half point slip there they will never invest in their future by taking the time to learn so they will end up always doing sub-par work fairly quick.
That is exactly true. I have watched Chris tune a vast verity of cars. I have watch over his shoulder some of the email tunes and that is exactly how its done. :bigthumbsup And yes some times you have to tweek a email tune.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Way low! My first cam install alone was $1500 (P&L). Labor for a header & midpipe install is at least $600.

I got a quote for $400 on a long tube install. Should I be wondering about the quality of the work or anything?
 

·
Shelby Gt 350 member
Joined
·
9,239 Posts
do you have a bog below 2000 rpms .I was told with thoughs cams they have a bog below 2000rpm:scratchchin
If those cams bog it's not because of the cams. They're super mild. It would either be a crap tune or the cams were not degreed correctly/evenly.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top