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does your 2011 - 2014 mustang make this sound?

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Well I also have had that noise on extremely cold morning starts only, and not very often. I understand it is abnormal to most, but I would consider it normal (occasionally) for my 2014 GT. It's obvious the tech has no clue what the problem is therefore if you are determined to have it fixed, go to another dealer. I definitely am not about to have the dealer tech start tearing things apart for what I consider a minor issue (believe me something else will be wrong / worse when they are done screwing with it). If it becomes a major issue or finally tears something up, Ford will fix it under warranty then. Weather will be warming up soon and the problem will go away. My .02 cents..leave well enough alone.
 

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Also - does your clutch engage really close to the floor as you let up on the peddal ?
Mine also engages very close to the floor, which was a bit odd getting used to, as my 89 5.0 (completely different I know) engages halfway up.

I'm hoping the noise is as simple as a minor adjustment.
Really? Mine begins to release 1/2 up (maybe a little more than that) and then fully engages very sharply. Not near the floor at all.
 

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Hello UMDSmith,

Welcome to the forum! My name is Deysha with Ford Service and I’d like to get this escalated to the customer service manager for your area. Please, PM me with your VIN, dealer, mileage, full name, and best daytime number so I can help.

Deysha


Sent the PM Deysha, and thank you for the welcome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Thanks for all the new input on this. I will start by answering the question of had it done this when new and how long:
For me, it was doing this when it was brand new within the first 100 miles, but I thought it was a squeaky belt so I dismissed it hoping it would run-in and stop. but it did not and has progressively gotten worse until I could reproduce it on demand any cold day under 40 degrees, and sometimes it would do it as warm as 60 degrees. The fact it is worsening is why I am concerned, and the fact I have had manual transmissions in my vehicles for at least 20 years of driving and kept them until they reached hundreds of thousands of cumulative miles and never heard one of them make a noise like this. my pickup has a manual that I bought brand new, and it has 170000 miles on it and it still sounds better than this clutch.

as far as how high the clutch engages, mine also takes up almost all the way down to the floor and it was also hard to get used to that as my pickup takes up almost at the top, needless to say it is interesting when i get out of one and in the other, as i will drive a bit jumpy until i figure it out again, lol. I didnt think this is a problem though, I just figured it was designed to operate at the floor.

car is still in the shop, I will try to find out this week what they are going to do. So far I think all the cars doing this were from the same time period (14) or at least most. I am an engineer by trade, and I deal with bearings, and in particular I do environmental testing also by putting mechanical systems in a very cold freezer on occasion to test how it performs, and I have seen this problem... and this has all the signs of the wrong grease being put in the sealed bearing. the grease in my opinion may not be the correct thermal grade, specifically the grease may solidify at cold temperatures, causing the bearing to stop spinning and force it to spin on a surface that is not intended to slide on (lock up), making the screech, until the friction warms it up sufficiently to thin the grease and allow it to turn again and stop sliding on the outer surface....just my opinion for what it is worth, which is not much without any analysis to back it up...Of course, if there are clearance issues with some sort of adjustment for free play or pre-load of the bearing, it may be that as well.


I don't think the mechanic at the dealer is the issue, from my conversation, he understood what bearings could be causing this sound. goodluck.gif

mark
 

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I don't think the mechanic at the dealer is the issue, from my conversation, he understood what bearings could be causing this sound. goodluck.gif

mark
I still feel that they are giving you the runaround pretty early into this.. I'm with Strangemud and moonraker.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Yes, I have had enough issues with this dealer, that if they don't get this right this time, I will go to another dealer. It is not so much the results of the work being done, but the way the people at the dealer service department have treated me is less than welcoming. They were all about service when I bought the car...but they were all about silence when I had a problem. I am glad there are other places to go for help.
Mark
 
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Well I also have had that noise on extremely cold morning starts only, and not very often. I understand it is abnormal to most, but I would consider it normal (occasionally) for my 2014 GT. It's obvious the tech has no clue what the problem is therefore if you are determined to have it fixed, go to another dealer. I definitely am not about to have the dealer tech start tearing things apart for what I consider a minor issue (believe me something else will be wrong / worse when they are done screwing with it). If it becomes a major issue or finally tears something up, Ford will fix it under warranty then. Weather will be warming up soon and the problem will go away. My .02 cents..leave well enough alone.
Let me know if you decide to bring it in, elkk. I’ll get it escalated.

Sent the PM Deysha, and thank you for the welcome.
Thanks, UMDSmith! I’ll get back to you as soon as possible.

Deysha
 

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Thanks for all the new input on this. I will start by answering the question of had it done this when new and how long:
For me, it was doing this when it was brand new within the first 100 miles, but I thought it was a squeaky belt so I dismissed it hoping it would run-in and stop. but it did not and has progressively gotten worse until I could reproduce it on demand any cold day under 40 degrees, and sometimes it would do it as warm as 60 degrees. The fact it is worsening is why I am concerned, and the fact I have had manual transmissions in my vehicles for at least 20 years of driving and kept them until they reached hundreds of thousands of cumulative miles and never heard one of them make a noise like this. my pickup has a manual that I bought brand new, and it has 170000 miles on it and it still sounds better than this clutch.

as far as how high the clutch engages, mine also takes up almost all the way down to the floor and it was also hard to get used to that as my pickup takes up almost at the top, needless to say it is interesting when i get out of one and in the other, as i will drive a bit jumpy until i figure it out again, lol. I didnt think this is a problem though, I just figured it was designed to operate at the floor.

car is still in the shop, I will try to find out this week what they are going to do. So far I think all the cars doing this were from the same time period (14) or at least most. I am an engineer by trade, and I deal with bearings, and in particular I do environmental testing also by putting mechanical systems in a very cold freezer on occasion to test how it performs, and I have seen this problem... and this has all the signs of the wrong grease being put in the sealed bearing. the grease in my opinion may not be the correct thermal grade, specifically the grease may solidify at cold temperatures, causing the bearing to stop spinning and force it to spin on a surface that is not intended to slide on (lock up), making the screech, until the friction warms it up sufficiently to thin the grease and allow it to turn again and stop sliding on the outer surface....just my opinion for what it is worth, which is not much without any analysis to back it up...Of course, if there are clearance issues with some sort of adjustment for free play or pre-load of the bearing, it may be that as well.


I don't think the mechanic at the dealer is the issue, from my conversation, he understood what bearings could be causing this sound. goodluck.gif

mark
Speaking as an engineer myself, I doubt this is an incorrect grease problem. With the clutch pedal completely released, the throw-out bearing should not be spinning at all, therefore the grease type shouldn't even enter into the equation. Rather, this seems to be tolerance stack (or subtract if you will) that is resulting in zero clearance between the pressure plate and the T-O bearing when the pedal is released.

Your description that the noise stops when the pedal is depressed indicates the grease is OK, because the bearing will be rotating at crankshaft speed then. With the pressure and RPM involved any cold-solidified grease would rapidly warm and flow, probably in less than a second.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
So, today, I picked up the car from the dealer. They were nice, helpful and described the work done and gave me the paperwork. (hmmm. I thought i was at a different place?? but that was a nice thing.) the papers show replacement of the throw out bearing and the pilot bearing. I am leaving it outside in the cold tonight and praying that it will be nice to me in the morning and not yell at me when i wake it up any more. sharkattak.gif

I hope this has resolved the issue. so far it looks good, but it is too warm out today to tell. it was quieter than usual inside the car on the way home and the gearshift was not singing to me slightly when the revs go up like it did before. Maybe this is a good sign. I cant tell the car had been worked on other than wrench marks on the bolts. I dont know what is done to pull the tranny but the center console does not look moved as the dust is not disturbed. Maybe they can do all of that from under the car? well so far no complaints on the quality of the work.

I will post the results of the morning test start as it should be 30 degrees out according to the weather forecast.

Thanks for the help getting this repair moving forward.

mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Speaking as an engineer myself, I doubt this is an incorrect grease problem. With the clutch pedal completely released, the throw-out bearing should not be spinning at all, therefore the grease type shouldn't even enter into the equation. Rather, this seems to be tolerance stack (or subtract if you will) that is resulting in zero clearance between the pressure plate and the T-O bearing when the pedal is released.

Your description that the noise stops when the pedal is depressed indicates the grease is OK, because the bearing will be rotating at crankshaft speed then. With the pressure and RPM involved any cold-solidified grease would rapidly warm and flow, probably in less than a second.
This makes perfect sense, I had read in another post somewhere regarding a similar issue on a ford that the throw out bearing was now supposed to spin all the time (stays in contact with the pressure plate)....if this is not true, then you are absolutely correct. does anyone have a service manual that can confirm or deny this?
 

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Can't think of any advantage to having the T-O bearing spinning all the time, it has no lubricant supply other than what it was originally packed with. Seems to me you'd just be wearing them out sooner - a headache for both the manufacturer and the owner.

Back when I was taught to drive a manual, the common practice was to place the car in neutral at a long stop rather than holding the clutch in as the T-O bearings were only designed for intermittent use. We were also instructed to remove our foot completely from the clutch pedal when not actually shifting as another way to preserve the T-O bearing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
VID 20140218 061029 904 - YouTube

this is the video of the test this morning. I wish I could say it was gone, but it is still there, However much reduced. it was 30 degrees when the video was taken.

I can tell what they did made a difference. Perhaps I will just wait until next year and see how it does in the winter unless there is a reason to continue at this point. (or until it does it in warm weather too, whichever comes first)

Mark
 

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VID 20140218 061029 904 - YouTube

this is the video of the test this morning. I wish I could say it was gone, but it is still there, However much reduced. it was 30 degrees when the video was taken.

I can tell what they did made a difference. Perhaps I will just wait until next year and see how it does in the winter unless there is a reason to continue at this point. (or until it does it in warm weather too, whichever comes first)

Mark
Well -- the techs are in the right area - problem does involve the bearing as the sound is now better - sounds like my car now. But replacing the bearing was not the answer - something else is into play here - it may be with the preload on the bearing is too much with the peddal all the way up - and it needs to be reduced - not sure just throwing out ideas - something will come of this - lots of people with this problem. And I need to do alot of looking into how the hydraulics on the clutch work - I'm quite sure a minor adjustment is all that would be needed to eliminate the squeal - would it be the right fix ?? maybe a different to bearing would fix things - not sure.

Better to spend alot of time thinking about the problem than to just throw random fixes at it - saves time & money.
 

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Mark - have you thought about taking your car to a few tranny places and just paying them 20.00 or so to give you an opinion (ie and not touch the car) - I will do this in the spring with mine if we have no further answers.

The best person to take care of the problem is you (or us) and sound advice from someone with experience behind it may yield a quick simple and easy solution.
 
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VID 20140218 061029 904 - YouTube

this is the video of the test this morning. I wish I could say it was gone, but it is still there, However much reduced. it was 30 degrees when the video was taken.

I can tell what they did made a difference. Perhaps I will just wait until next year and see how it does in the winter unless there is a reason to continue at this point. (or until it does it in warm weather too, whichever comes first)
Let me know if you’d like for me to escalate this for you again, mnewbill.

Deysha
 

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Here is another link to a forum discussing this issue - and interestingly enough it notes that not enough preload on the throw out bearing causes it to slip on the fingers giving the squeal - so it sounds like tightening the cable will increase the preload & remove the squeal - how to do this I'm not sure yet - but excellent info on the subject.

IMO

throwout bearing air gap? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 

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Unfortunately, you will be back for a clutch replacement. You have a bad clutch. What causes the squeek is some of the clutches diaphragm spring "fingers" sticking out and contacting the throw out bearing. They only need to stick out as little as .020 to create the noise you describe. probably a "bad" clutch from day 1.
 
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Hello Deysha

has there been any tsb's or ssm's on this issue yet?
Welcome to the forum, Mustang Mark GT! Your dealer will have the most up to date information regarding any recalls, customer satisfaction programs, TSBs, etc. I don’t get a list of those. Your vehicle must be fully diagnosed in order for them to search for any applicable ones.

I recommend you bring it in to your Ford Dealer and contact our FordServiceCA Rep on this forum if you have any questions.

Deysha
 
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