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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Some have asked so I'll fill ya'll in... :winks

Since I'm building a shortblock and will add a blower soon I'll call it complete... if I was staying NA I'd finish my CMDP's and add some cams... maybe remove the VT...

I got the Fox Lake P&P heads on and was very happy with the power increase and even more so with the delivery. I wish I had some cams but that will have to wait. You can expext +50 RWHP gains with P&P heads when some cams come available! Some racers have decided to build a 3V motor after they saw how ell mine worked! 4V performance but even more rev willing! Not to mention the 100 lb rules benefits over a 4V in NMRA racing!

I still have to port my CMDP's as they now are more restrictive than my intake ports on the heads! Huge, smooth and a beautiful design! See the build write up in MMFF Feb 06. Those heads are the same as mine (mine were used to finetune their CNC program), me too opted for the stronger Ferrea inconel internals, pricey but nice! Keep in mind you'll raise your compression some, about a point due to the larger valves.

Most of you know I added a Tunable Inductions CAI and Kooks headers, both are in my opinion as good as any out there, prolly best! LOL :rolleyes:

The intake and headers made the car sound awesome, with some help from the heads she revs like a mad race machine! I can't even begin to tell how much fun she was to drive! Kinda wish I wasn't a wienie and get rid of the cats for 5 or so more HP's and some more tunes!

The last parts installed was a RPS clutch and light weight flywheel. Making revving even more fun! The clutch is quite a bit stiffer than I expected and it took some getting used to... one will also have to learn where to keep the revs for slow driving to avoid embarrasing bogging and the following kangaroo jerking... was easy enough though... one get a feel for it, or one can just rev like a mad man! :tongue I'll see Ken tomorrow and will ask that he ups the 'in gear idle' which should help oposing the lighter flywheel... there is also other tuning adjustments that can be done he told me...

After getting used to the clutch and flywheel I must say I have NEVER driven a more fun car! I almost (ALMOST) sold my Vortech! :eyebulge:

I can at will do a throttle only burn out in second on asfalt! Just step on it while driving down the road, if you want you can continue it into third!! :drool:

There are of course tons of dyno numbers which I can't post... :sosad: My car seems to have some VT probs when it's getting warm! This with only 9,000 miles! It seems the actuators are a bit worn and make the timing 'slip' at the 3d or 4th dyno run! POS! This happends in the high register, around 4,500 RPM and we guess she never really recovers for a good max power dyno pull... it seems on the graph though that she does, just that one little drop and then she's back at it... The last pulls were no good due to the new clutch... dyno showed slippage compaird to the stock clutch, it still showed the same power as before the flywheel so tomorrow with some time on the new clutch I'm hoping to be even closer to the mid point of the 300's (PC, LOL)!

Besides dyno proven power I must say the way she drives now is just unbelievable! I wish you all could take her out for a spin and feel it, no words!

Looking at my numbers I think that with some hardcore cams, no cats, VT delete, electric assessories, etc... +400 RWHP is possible. With some weight removal and a dragg set up low 10's are right there! I think a S197 will hold the NA WR by this time next year, maybe a sub 10! Sorry Brandon... I guess your 4V have a chance too... :winks

Edit, got two PM's on what all I have for power adders...

Tunable Inductions CAI
Steeda CMDP's
Fox Lake P&P Heads
Steeda UD Pulleys
Kooks Headers w/ catted X-Pipe
JBA Axlebacks
RPS LW Flywheel
SCT X-Cal
Modular Depot (Ken) Custom Tune

(RPS Clutch, Steeda Tri-Ax, König Wheels w/ Michelins 275/19/35, MT ET's 275/17/45 for the track, M3 35% tint, Eibach Pro Springs + Anti-Roll kit, Steeda Bump-steers, Escort 8500 X-50 Laser/Lidar/Radar Detector with ZR-3 Laser/Lidar Shifter, Check Corp Heated Seats, Shroty Antenna, Painted Calipers, FRPP Seat Belt Shoulder Cushions, Graco Car Seat Base (mostly usead as G-Force Helmet Holder), K&N Oil Filter, Mobile1 5W-20, GG Baily Floor Mats, Sunco 94 Octane, Nitrogen Tire Inflation, License Plate Tinted Cover... uhh... hmm... think that's it...??)
 
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pop the hood and take pictures....want to see inside and outside..really wish i could see under too to see how everything comes together
 

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kj_cinci said:
Some have asked so I'll fill ya'll in... :winks

I got the Fox Lake P&P heads on and was very happy with the power increase and even more so with the delivery. I wish I had some cams but that will have to wait. You can expext +50 RWHP gains with P&P heads when some cams come available! Some racers have decided to build a 3V motor after they saw how ell mine worked! 4V performance but even more rev willing! Not to mention the 100 lb rules benefits over a 4V in NMRA racing!

I still have to port my CMDP's as they now are more restrictive than my intake ports on the heads! Huge, smooth and a beautiful design! See the build write up in MMFF Feb 06.

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kj, that is awesome. My next step is the heads and cams along with a 3000 converter (I have an auto). Its great to see that the 3V has alot of potential. What cams are you thinking of going with? I can't find to many available as yet. Oh, and did you notice any improvement from the charge motion delete plates? Are they really worth 10rwhp?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
nghtrnnr said:
pop the hood and take pictures....want to see inside and outside..really wish i could see under too to see how everything comes together
Whatcha wanna see? The motor looks like any other 3V with the Tunable Inductions intake sticking out, not like a sore thumb though! :rolleyes:

You can see the Steeda pulleys but they look stock unless you compair them to the stock ones... The CMDP's are shinier than the stock runners and if you really look you can see the front headers...

Here is a couple of amature pics of the intake (the PCV line is now moved and go under the intake as it should)... I think you can see some of the headers and CMDP's in the pic from the side... there will probably be a bunch of professional pics in 5.0 and Racing Pages in a few months... :winks Also look in the latest MMFF for head and valve/spring pics... Oh and the headers/X in this pic are mine! Now on the car... http://www.modulardepot.com/product_info.php?products_id=229
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
psfracer said:
kj, that is awesome. My next step is the heads and cams along with a 3000 converter (I have an auto). Its great to see that the 3V has alot of potential. What cams are you thinking of going with? I can't find to many available as yet. Oh, and did you notice any improvement from the charge motion delete plates? Are they really worth 10rwhp?
There are no cams available yet. All the big manufacturers have prototypes but can't make them work. There is/was(?) a lubrication issue that I think has been taken care of but it seems there is no good way around the VT issues they're having. I think we'll have to delete the VT for the larger cams and gains...!?! No biggie unless you live in Cali I guess...

With stock heads I'd say there is not much of a peak power gain from the CMDP's. But there is a pretty significant gain in the full register from about 3,000 RPM and all the way to red line. For a dyno racer with stock heads it's not worth it (looking only at peak gains), for anyone who want a nice, quick, delivery or is meassuring the gains on the track they're deffinately worth it! Oh, and to answer your question, there is probably a 10 HP gain somewhere in the register but not at the top...
 

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I have spoken with an engineer from Ricardo, which does extensive R&D for the Big 2 and makes Roush look small, the problem with the VVT cams being developed in the aftermarket is that due to the VVT design it self, the cams have to be pretty big in duration before you start seeing any real benefits.

As the VVT is from the factory, you have about 20* of variable timing. The cams are installed at their full advance and then retarded by the PCM. While I know Crower is hard at work developing some grinds and I'm sure Comp is as well, they are going to have to work a little harder than they used to, to qualify any real HP gains Vs cost.

BTW, Blow-By Racing has cams http://www.blowbyracing.com/mustang/05_06/engine/3v_cams.htm
 
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what i wanted to see was around the motor wise one...how everything fit in the well...the new headers...the motor itself..you know
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
redbullet said:
I have spoken with an engineer from Ricardo, which does extensive R&D for the Big 2 and makes Roush look small, the problem with the VVT cams being developed in the aftermarket is that due to the VVT design it self, the cams have to be pretty big in duration before you start seeing any real benefits.

As the VVT is from the factory, you have about 20* of variable timing. The cams are installed at their full advance and then retarded by the PCM. While I know Crower is hard at work developing some grinds and I'm sure Comp is as well, they are going to have to work a little harder than they used to, to qualify any real HP gains Vs cost.

BTW, Blow-By Racing has cams http://www.blowbyracing.com/mustang/05_06/engine/3v_cams.htm
Yup, that's one of the issues... That's why the guesses seems to be to get rid of the VT but then you need an extreme cam (.600 lift?) for 'worthy' power gains which will bring on the drivability issues... no wonder they take their time...

The BBR 'home ground' cams supposedly ruin (wear down) your VT system and internals in a stock head, a 'forged' internals head might stand a chance but not for ever! Also the cams themselfs wear noticably! Not the way to go as I understand it... (Unless you only use it for 11 secs and a 1/4 mile a few times a month...?!?)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
nghtrnnr said:
what i wanted to see was around the motor wise one...how everything fit in the well...the new headers...the motor itself..you know
As I tried to explian it looks like most other S197 V8's... all fit well, inkluding the headers... not the easiest install but is doable...
 
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