Let's look at this logically. You have what is probably the simplest engine there is to work on, and you can't get it fixed. You want to put a more complicated high mileage engine and electrical system in an old car that you still won't be able repair on your own. Hmmmm, what are we going to accomplish here?
Need direction on engine swap
Hello everyone, I am very new to mustang life. I recently picked up an automatic 1966 mustang and I am running into some issues as you might imagine. I am not mechanically inclined at all so doing things myself is not exactly easy. The current inline-six I have in the mustang is dying on me while driving and at times won't start. I have had to have it towed four times now and to different shops. I have had them replace the starter and for a while, that worked. Each of these shops either can't reproduce the issue or find what the issue is. Also, my transmission won't change out of first while I am driving. I'm thinking that at this point instead of spending a ton of money on towing and diagnostic fees that find nothing I am just going to swap out the transmission and engine. Obviously, I'll have the shop do it for me, but I need some direction on what I can and can't put in there. I read online that I can take a lot of different engines and put them in there since there is a lot of room in the bay. As a stop-gap, until I can afford a more luxurious engine, I have a 1997 Ford Taurus laying around with 170K miles on it. Please forgive my ignorance, but would I be able to use the Taurus as a donor car for my mustang? I would love to be able to afford a Coyote 5.0L but that is not happening at the moment or in the near future. it has been a very frustrating experience, which I expected some of it with an older car, but like I said I would rather pay to do the swap instead of dropping money on diagnostics that don't work. I may be able to use an 07 Mustang but that'll add about 3k to the price of the project due to the 07s price so I would want to avoid that cost if possible.
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Yeah, you're not wrong but I am at a loss at this point. I know that the Taurus is good to go because I've been driving that and never had an issue. My biggest issue is the 66 dying on me and causing an accident. Thats the last thing I want or need happening. So I am not sure where to go from here. I know there is an issue, but I can't find it or fix it, and neither can the mechanics I've taken it to.
07redstang makes a good point.
If your mechanic can't understand what's wrong with your '66 engine and transmission, it's not likely the mechanic will successfully perform an engine/transmission transplant.
Ask around, or check local car clubs for who they recommend as a competent mechanic.
E-10 (ethanol gasoline) is what we have to live with (due to dear intervention from politicians), and unfortunately it doesn't play well with older style fuel systems and carburetors. you probably need a carb rebuild as a start.
Transmission might just need an adjustment or maybe a vacuum line somewhere is split / cracked / missing.
oh, and Taurus (front wheel drive) engine/transmission would be a poor choice for obvious reasons.
If your 6 cylinder engine is shot, you could get it rebuilt or you could probably find someone with a good running one in a mustang who is swapping it out to trade up to a V8.
If your mechanic can't understand what's wrong with your '66 engine and transmission, it's not likely the mechanic will successfully perform an engine/transmission transplant.
Ask around, or check local car clubs for who they recommend as a competent mechanic.
E-10 (ethanol gasoline) is what we have to live with (due to dear intervention from politicians), and unfortunately it doesn't play well with older style fuel systems and carburetors. you probably need a carb rebuild as a start.
Transmission might just need an adjustment or maybe a vacuum line somewhere is split / cracked / missing.
oh, and Taurus (front wheel drive) engine/transmission would be a poor choice for obvious reasons.
If your 6 cylinder engine is shot, you could get it rebuilt or you could probably find someone with a good running one in a mustang who is swapping it out to trade up to a V8.
There is no problem with running E10 if the rubber fuel lines have been replaced and the carb had been rebuilt in the last 20 years. You need a mechanic that can troubleshoot instead of throwing parts at it. Again, you have one of the simplest engines to maintain.
Your 170k mile Taurus is at the point in which it will start to need maintenance. You're not gaining any reliability.
Your 170k mile Taurus is at the point in which it will start to need maintenance. You're not gaining any reliability.
My suggestions for your consideration:
1) As far as your Mustang repeatedly dying, do not give up hope on finding a shop that can diagnose your problem(s). The art of troubleshooting older cars and fundamental skills like "Fuel-Spark-Air" and "Suck-Squeeze-Bang-Blow" is sadly being lost by a generation of technicians who cannot function without a scan tool to read diagnostic trouble codes and then look online how to swap the related sensor that is throwing the check engine light. But I digress.
That diatribe aside, I'm concerned you have basic mechanical and electrical issues with your engine that can be resolved. CHECK AROUND FOR YOUR LOCAL AUTOMOTIVE TRADE SCHOOLS AND CONTACT THEM.
They salivate at getting vehicles like yours for teaching their students. It is a golden opportunity for them to teach basic fundamentals like wet-dry engine compression tests, checking timing, checking the electrical charging system and more. You may still have to pay - but you can certainly negotiate temporarily "donating" your car for teaching purposes in exchange for favorable labor rates. Obviously, this is not your daily driver - and I sense you have more time than $$$ - so let them have at it!
2) Disregard the idea of using a 170k mile engine (and transmission) from your Taurus. The wiring harness swap alone will defeat electrical engineers. You would also in all likelihood be facing frame and body modifications (engine mounts, transmission support brackets, exhaust system, and more) that would require custom fabrication & welding. There are shops that restore Mustangs like yours - but none are going to want to take on an engine swap like this.
3) Last suggestion is to consider a 289 or 302 V-8 engine swap for your inline 6. And a conversion to a T-4 (4 speed) or T-5. This has been done countless times and there are terrific blogs by people who have done this themselves. Note I only suggest this if the Mustang is in otherwise good condition, and you have a budget of $15-20K. Do not consider any other types of swaps. And by "good condition" I mean the underside isn't rusted out. The suspension is "there" and works. The brakes work and stop the car. The interior is "there" and complete. Lights, dash, doors, windows, trunk, fuel tank, and other items like this have integrity.
There are shops who will do a V8 conversion like this (you may have to trailer it a long way to a GOOD one) - but most will reject this type of work for what I call "basket cases to start with".
HTH!
Addendum:
OP:
Regarding my third suggestion above, while this may hurt your wallet in the near term, you would likely recoup your investment in the long term. Just look online at correctly done, well thought out, solid 1964-1966 restomods and what they are selling for. They are commanding $40-50K.
On a related note, it is never too late to learn how to do this yourself. Right now you have a non-running Mustang 6 cylinder auto that basically doesn't run. I don't know what you spent on it (and won't ask) - but I'm guessing you are upside down with respect to nt present value. That is however an option. Re-sell it now and cut your losses
If that is not what you want to do, why not take this on as a learning & once-in-a-lifetime project yourself? YOU LITERALLY HAVE ONE OF THE MOST ICONIC CARS ON THE PLANET and if you can restore it tastefully and properly yourself, you will be incredibly rewarded - both from a sense of satisfaction POV and value proposition. Take all the time you want. Study, learn, budget and spend wisely, you will make mistakes, but learn as you go.
There are dozens, if not hundreds, if not thousands, of owners who have done this and subsequently reflected it was one of their best accomplishments when they finally took their wife, best friend, child, whatever on that ride when it was all done.
Food for your thought.
1) As far as your Mustang repeatedly dying, do not give up hope on finding a shop that can diagnose your problem(s). The art of troubleshooting older cars and fundamental skills like "Fuel-Spark-Air" and "Suck-Squeeze-Bang-Blow" is sadly being lost by a generation of technicians who cannot function without a scan tool to read diagnostic trouble codes and then look online how to swap the related sensor that is throwing the check engine light. But I digress.
That diatribe aside, I'm concerned you have basic mechanical and electrical issues with your engine that can be resolved. CHECK AROUND FOR YOUR LOCAL AUTOMOTIVE TRADE SCHOOLS AND CONTACT THEM.
They salivate at getting vehicles like yours for teaching their students. It is a golden opportunity for them to teach basic fundamentals like wet-dry engine compression tests, checking timing, checking the electrical charging system and more. You may still have to pay - but you can certainly negotiate temporarily "donating" your car for teaching purposes in exchange for favorable labor rates. Obviously, this is not your daily driver - and I sense you have more time than $$$ - so let them have at it!
2) Disregard the idea of using a 170k mile engine (and transmission) from your Taurus. The wiring harness swap alone will defeat electrical engineers. You would also in all likelihood be facing frame and body modifications (engine mounts, transmission support brackets, exhaust system, and more) that would require custom fabrication & welding. There are shops that restore Mustangs like yours - but none are going to want to take on an engine swap like this.
3) Last suggestion is to consider a 289 or 302 V-8 engine swap for your inline 6. And a conversion to a T-4 (4 speed) or T-5. This has been done countless times and there are terrific blogs by people who have done this themselves. Note I only suggest this if the Mustang is in otherwise good condition, and you have a budget of $15-20K. Do not consider any other types of swaps. And by "good condition" I mean the underside isn't rusted out. The suspension is "there" and works. The brakes work and stop the car. The interior is "there" and complete. Lights, dash, doors, windows, trunk, fuel tank, and other items like this have integrity.
There are shops who will do a V8 conversion like this (you may have to trailer it a long way to a GOOD one) - but most will reject this type of work for what I call "basket cases to start with".
HTH!
Addendum:
OP:
Regarding my third suggestion above, while this may hurt your wallet in the near term, you would likely recoup your investment in the long term. Just look online at correctly done, well thought out, solid 1964-1966 restomods and what they are selling for. They are commanding $40-50K.
On a related note, it is never too late to learn how to do this yourself. Right now you have a non-running Mustang 6 cylinder auto that basically doesn't run. I don't know what you spent on it (and won't ask) - but I'm guessing you are upside down with respect to nt present value. That is however an option. Re-sell it now and cut your losses
If that is not what you want to do, why not take this on as a learning & once-in-a-lifetime project yourself? YOU LITERALLY HAVE ONE OF THE MOST ICONIC CARS ON THE PLANET and if you can restore it tastefully and properly yourself, you will be incredibly rewarded - both from a sense of satisfaction POV and value proposition. Take all the time you want. Study, learn, budget and spend wisely, you will make mistakes, but learn as you go.
There are dozens, if not hundreds, if not thousands, of owners who have done this and subsequently reflected it was one of their best accomplishments when they finally took their wife, best friend, child, whatever on that ride when it was all done.
Food for your thought.
Your little i6 is a very simple system. Even if you are not a mechanical genius, if you get the shop manual for your car, and read along, it has some really good troubleshooting guides that will let you fix your own problems!
In contrast, putting in any modern EFI engine is going to be quite a project, even for a pro that knows what they're doing. It would likely require some fabrication for motor and transmission mounts, and a lot of wiring and cutting holes in your car. Neither of the engines you mention are especially wonderful, and all of the suspension and drivetrain work you would have to do to make your car reasonably safe to drive would cost a fortune in time and money.
If you want more power, redoing your front suspension, rear axle, and dropping in an inexpensive salvage yard 5.0 is probably the way to go. But don't give up on your six! They are not fast, but they are a genuine pleasure to drive, when they work right!
In contrast, putting in any modern EFI engine is going to be quite a project, even for a pro that knows what they're doing. It would likely require some fabrication for motor and transmission mounts, and a lot of wiring and cutting holes in your car. Neither of the engines you mention are especially wonderful, and all of the suspension and drivetrain work you would have to do to make your car reasonably safe to drive would cost a fortune in time and money.
If you want more power, redoing your front suspension, rear axle, and dropping in an inexpensive salvage yard 5.0 is probably the way to go. But don't give up on your six! They are not fast, but they are a genuine pleasure to drive, when they work right!
^ this ^ is also an EXCELLENT reply
As a 200 i6 owner I can hand off this advice
the cylinder head had one major problem when built, integral intake manifold. Which causes some heat problems. Being that your statements have been very vague on the actual problem (stumbling ,sputtering , acceleration dieing) heres some ideas to start with-
REBUILD THE CARB- the easiest thing to start with is a carb rebuild ,advance has a rebuild kit for the autolite 1100 for some 25-35$ it doesn’t take much mechanical knowledge to rebuild and you have youtube.
TIMING - make sure you have your timing set correctly and make sure your distributor vacuum advance does not have a whole in it! That can cause 1,000,000 problems!
CHANGE CARBS- if you want fuel economy and reliably go with a Holley 1904(manual choke) they are practically a bolt in item . New ones can be bought and that’s what I recommend if your not mechanically inclined. The old 1904s are often warped from over tightening .
FORD DOSNT ALWAYS SWAP FORD- The likely hood of the Taurus fitting in the mustang is about 10% chance of success, there a lot more money to be had with this swap
6=8- thisis an Hudson thing but you can make a 6 just as reliable and powerful, to have a new completely rebuilt 200i6 will cost 4-7k and modifications are cheap as well for these motors so you can make them have the power of a 289 if you have the shop help you through it .
I’m an advocate for i6s due to there reliability and originality appeal, these motors can go for very very many miles without a rebuild or any adjustments. I have a 65 Ford falcon with 233,000 miles on it it is never been rebuilt and there is a very very little play in the crank the only thing I need to replace right as of this moment is the timing chain and some seals.
Best of luck
Blake
the cylinder head had one major problem when built, integral intake manifold. Which causes some heat problems. Being that your statements have been very vague on the actual problem (stumbling ,sputtering , acceleration dieing) heres some ideas to start with-
REBUILD THE CARB- the easiest thing to start with is a carb rebuild ,advance has a rebuild kit for the autolite 1100 for some 25-35$ it doesn’t take much mechanical knowledge to rebuild and you have youtube.
TIMING - make sure you have your timing set correctly and make sure your distributor vacuum advance does not have a whole in it! That can cause 1,000,000 problems!
CHANGE CARBS- if you want fuel economy and reliably go with a Holley 1904(manual choke) they are practically a bolt in item . New ones can be bought and that’s what I recommend if your not mechanically inclined. The old 1904s are often warped from over tightening .
FORD DOSNT ALWAYS SWAP FORD- The likely hood of the Taurus fitting in the mustang is about 10% chance of success, there a lot more money to be had with this swap
6=8- thisis an Hudson thing but you can make a 6 just as reliable and powerful, to have a new completely rebuilt 200i6 will cost 4-7k and modifications are cheap as well for these motors so you can make them have the power of a 289 if you have the shop help you through it .
I’m an advocate for i6s due to there reliability and originality appeal, these motors can go for very very many miles without a rebuild or any adjustments. I have a 65 Ford falcon with 233,000 miles on it it is never been rebuilt and there is a very very little play in the crank the only thing I need to replace right as of this moment is the timing chain and some seals.
Best of luck
Blake
The problems being experienced are not engine related, but the systems that allow the engine to operate. Intermittent, not able to reproduce problems are almost always electrical. The electrical system on a 66 is extremely simple. So start there.
There are only three circuits associated with the engine to deal with: ignition, starting, and charging. Even resorting to complete rebuilding of all three would cost very little in money and time.
Compare that with an engine from a Taurus: EFI, computer controlled ignition, OBD2....
There are only three circuits associated with the engine to deal with: ignition, starting, and charging. Even resorting to complete rebuilding of all three would cost very little in money and time.
Compare that with an engine from a Taurus: EFI, computer controlled ignition, OBD2....
Sorry to jump in this late.. but to the OP, I understand your dilemma and it’s much where I started many years ago when I took my first Mustang project. I had very little mechanical experience and jumped into it with the intent of learning as much as I could. I’ve since become kind of a swap guy for the 65/66’s.. I’ve owned 2 66 inline 6, 1 of which I did a complete 6-to-8 cyl conversion with a 302 and 5 speed T5, I’ve done 2 complete engine builds, helped my buddies do some swaps and conversions, and now trying to finish up a coyote build in a 65.
That being said.. I’m still learning every day, but I can attest that once you gain the knowledge it tends to be much easier. These cars are very simple and I’m not that smart, so it really doesn’t take much to do all these things. If your mechanic can’t figure out how to diagnose your car I definitely wouldn’t trust them to do a swap. If there’s one thing I’ve learned through the years it’s that I don’t trust any shop or single mechanic to work on my cars. They tend to gauge your lack of knowledge and bill accordingly, things like a brake adjustment for $300.. vacuum leak for $200.. if you don’t know what you’re getting taken for they will take you for a ride every time. It’s always better to gain the knowledge just in general, for all cars, if you intend to be involved more than dropping them off at shop with a blank check.
On that note, I will say a fidgety 56 year old car is probably not the most practical daily driver for many reasons, mostly for the reason that modern young mechanics aren’t trained in them. Sure you can find some crotchety old guy at a shop who knows about them, but if he’s still working on them he’s probably not making much money. These cars are really only practical (financially at least) if you work on them yourself.
everything you’ve discussed is possible, swaps can be done, but if you don’t plan on doing them or gaining the knowledge I will say that you will very likely be dumping a ton of money that will not be worth it. Hell even with doing the work yourself it’s not all that financially practical.. it’s mainly done out of hobby and enthusiasm. If you need help with any of it tho, we’d be happy to help.
That being said.. I’m still learning every day, but I can attest that once you gain the knowledge it tends to be much easier. These cars are very simple and I’m not that smart, so it really doesn’t take much to do all these things. If your mechanic can’t figure out how to diagnose your car I definitely wouldn’t trust them to do a swap. If there’s one thing I’ve learned through the years it’s that I don’t trust any shop or single mechanic to work on my cars. They tend to gauge your lack of knowledge and bill accordingly, things like a brake adjustment for $300.. vacuum leak for $200.. if you don’t know what you’re getting taken for they will take you for a ride every time. It’s always better to gain the knowledge just in general, for all cars, if you intend to be involved more than dropping them off at shop with a blank check.
On that note, I will say a fidgety 56 year old car is probably not the most practical daily driver for many reasons, mostly for the reason that modern young mechanics aren’t trained in them. Sure you can find some crotchety old guy at a shop who knows about them, but if he’s still working on them he’s probably not making much money. These cars are really only practical (financially at least) if you work on them yourself.
everything you’ve discussed is possible, swaps can be done, but if you don’t plan on doing them or gaining the knowledge I will say that you will very likely be dumping a ton of money that will not be worth it. Hell even with doing the work yourself it’s not all that financially practical.. it’s mainly done out of hobby and enthusiasm. If you need help with any of it tho, we’d be happy to help.
I'll wholeheartedly agree with everyone encouraging you to keep the 200, or if you're that gung-ho on more power, a 289/302 swap. Some other things to ponder, based on your initial post.
The 1997 Taurus Engine Swap: You didn't mention if this was a 3.0 Vulcan, or a 3.0 Twin OHC Engine. Besides having to find a 3.0 Ranger trans (which had reliability issues) to convert a FWD engine to RWD, everything else would be custom made, and your "bang for the buck" wouldn't be there (aside from the fact the twin cam engine may be too wide to fit between the stock shock towers).
The 2007 Mustang Engine Swap: You didn't mention whether this was a V6 or V8 car, or what trans is behind it. This is also a custom made everything to make it fit situation, and the V8 also may be too wide for the shock towers.
The Coyote Swap: The price goes up like crazy on this one, and significant changes to the car will be needed to get this in and running. Also, the mods you would potentially do to get any of the previously mentioned engines in the car would likely not translate to getting the Coyote in, so you'd be cutting the car up yet again.
Just my $0.02, On your current engine, rebuild the carb, replace the fuel pump if it looks ancient, and insulate the fuel line between them. The replacement parts will have components that tolerate the ethanol that is used in today's fuels.
Keep us posted on what you do, and how it goes. There's plenty of people in the know here that are willing to help you along this journey of getting your car running right.
The 1997 Taurus Engine Swap: You didn't mention if this was a 3.0 Vulcan, or a 3.0 Twin OHC Engine. Besides having to find a 3.0 Ranger trans (which had reliability issues) to convert a FWD engine to RWD, everything else would be custom made, and your "bang for the buck" wouldn't be there (aside from the fact the twin cam engine may be too wide to fit between the stock shock towers).
The 2007 Mustang Engine Swap: You didn't mention whether this was a V6 or V8 car, or what trans is behind it. This is also a custom made everything to make it fit situation, and the V8 also may be too wide for the shock towers.
The Coyote Swap: The price goes up like crazy on this one, and significant changes to the car will be needed to get this in and running. Also, the mods you would potentially do to get any of the previously mentioned engines in the car would likely not translate to getting the Coyote in, so you'd be cutting the car up yet again.
Just my $0.02, On your current engine, rebuild the carb, replace the fuel pump if it looks ancient, and insulate the fuel line between them. The replacement parts will have components that tolerate the ethanol that is used in today's fuels.
Keep us posted on what you do, and how it goes. There's plenty of people in the know here that are willing to help you along this journey of getting your car running right.
All good advice. Swapping the engine of your Taurus into your old Mustang only sounds like a good idea. First off, I doubt if it would fit. I can guarantee a Coyote will NOT fit. Yes it is possible but you think you have issues now. If you want to stay in the classic Mustang hobby (or addiction as my wife calls it) it is time you learned how these things work. Believe me when I tell you taking your old car to a mechanic and trusting him to know what you don't is not a good idea. You might get lucky but I doubt it. The more you know how these things work, the better off your Mustang will be. I just did an engine rebuild on my 68 302. I found a top engine guy. Let's just say he and I worked out a plan for what he was going to do with my engine. I could have just handed it to him and hoped for the best. That has not worked out well for me in the past. These are pretty basic machines. Get a manual on early Mustangs. Lots of books. Watch some of those Youtube videos on engine rebuilding to learn about the process and what all those parts do.
If you car is quitting on the highway there aren't that many things that could be causing it. You need fuel to the carb, the car has to mix air with the fuel properly and feed it into the engine. You need spark to fire the plugs to ignite the fuel in the cylinders at the right time. If it stops running while you are driving it, at least one of those things is not working at that time. Your car is a 50+ year old vehicle. No parts on that car were designed to last 50 years. These were disposable cars. Replace those old parts if you want this car to be dependable. Replace all the hoses and lines. Imagine springing a leak in a brake line. Install a dual master brake cylinder before you find out why that would have been a good idea. I'd strongly recommend front discs swap.
Carbs are great devices but they need to be tuned regularly and that means more often than every 20 years. I have a carb guy who tells me to let him tune it every couple three years. You don't have to be a mechanic but it sure helps to know the basics to keep a classic Mustang on the road. We all have been where you are. You can make your 'Stang dependable. Replacing the engine and drive train are NOT necessarily the best solution. Definitely not the cheapest. Swapping engines is something you do because you want more horsepower not because it dies on you while you are driving it.
If you car is quitting on the highway there aren't that many things that could be causing it. You need fuel to the carb, the car has to mix air with the fuel properly and feed it into the engine. You need spark to fire the plugs to ignite the fuel in the cylinders at the right time. If it stops running while you are driving it, at least one of those things is not working at that time. Your car is a 50+ year old vehicle. No parts on that car were designed to last 50 years. These were disposable cars. Replace those old parts if you want this car to be dependable. Replace all the hoses and lines. Imagine springing a leak in a brake line. Install a dual master brake cylinder before you find out why that would have been a good idea. I'd strongly recommend front discs swap.
Carbs are great devices but they need to be tuned regularly and that means more often than every 20 years. I have a carb guy who tells me to let him tune it every couple three years. You don't have to be a mechanic but it sure helps to know the basics to keep a classic Mustang on the road. We all have been where you are. You can make your 'Stang dependable. Replacing the engine and drive train are NOT necessarily the best solution. Definitely not the cheapest. Swapping engines is something you do because you want more horsepower not because it dies on you while you are driving it.
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Ford Mustang Forum
A forum community dedicated to Ford Mustang owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, builds, modifications, reviews, engine swaps, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Recommended Communities
