Oil separator incompatible with supercharger?

13748 Views 20 Replies 5 Participants Last post by drpaul, Jul 2, 2011

drpaul

Discussion Starter · Jun 30, 2011

I installed a passenger-side JLT oil separator (in my 2011 Mustang 5.0) about 6,000 miles ago and there isn't a single drop of oil in the catch can. The technician at the shop that installed my Procharger P1SC supercharger said that this is because the PCV line connecting the Procharger intake tube to the driver-side vacuum port sucks the oil out. The technician then asked if the separator had a check valve. He said that if it doesn't have a check valve it would increase (?) the pressure on the passenger side (of the intake manifold?) and bad things would happen -- something (?) would crack. I checked with JLT and they said that the separator has no check valve but it is perfectly safe even with the blower.

Who should I believe: 1) the technician that said that the combination of a blower, line connecting the intake tube to the driver-side vacuum port, and an oil separator without a check valve is dangerous or 2) JLT who says that the oil separator is perfectly safe? Does it matter?

I have no idea who I should believe because I am a mechanical moron :dunce: and both people obviously know way more than I do.

I am tempted to remove the oil separator because it doesn't seem to be doing anything. Unfortunately, I can't remember if I removed anything when I installed it. Can I simply remove the oil separator? Do I need to replace it with something? If so, what?

Sorry for asking so many stupid questions. Sometimes I just can't help it...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

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1 - 20 of 21 Posts

2011GrabberGT

· #2 · Jun 30, 2011

Are both PCV lines hooked up? They probably didnt hook up the other one, that is why it isnt working. As for a check valve on the PCV side, that is stupid since the PCV valve is a check valve. The other side must be plumbed after the MAF, but on the supercharger inlet (not boosted side), but I don't think that is possible with that kit. In this scenario, a check valve should be used on the driver side to prevent boosting your crankcase when under accel. Otherwise you will blow oil seals out of the engine. Some people will simply install breathers, but I prefer a PCV system intact as it helps prevent acid and moisture build up in the oil.

2011GrabberGT

· #3 · Jun 30, 2011

It should also be noted that some PCV valves will leak under boost on engines not designed for that, I don't know about this engine. In that case you can add a check valve inline with the PCV valve, or switch to a boost rated PCV valve (if available).

hotshot

· #4 · Jun 30, 2011

My eforce equipped engine has a UPR separator on the driver's side PVC and it collects tons of oil

Entrenched

· #5 · Jun 30, 2011

My procharger caps the passenger side and use an elbow and hose on the driver's side. It's done this way to maintain vacuum in the engine. The hose is routed to the suction side of the supercharger. You could add a catch can to keep oil from being sucked into the supercharger (sounds like this is how you have it) but a check valve is not needed. Your tech is not to bright and Tucker @ JLT is correct. Snap a pic for me if you could, I'd like to see how the JLT looks with your set up.

drpaul

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jun 30, 2011

Dear 2011GT,

Thanks for your reply. I didn't really understand your answer because I really am a mechanical moron. Please bear with me.

You ask if both PCV lines are hooked up. I assume that when you say "both PCV lines" you mean the two lines from the separator. The first picture shows the oil separator and the two lines. They are hooked up. I assume that I've hooked them to the right spots.

I have to admit that I really don't understand the rest of your reply. I included another picture (with two red arrows) so that everybody can see what I've got (in case I've done a bad job explaining the situation). The red arrow on the left is pointing to the end of the line that connects to what I believe is the driver-side PCV vacuum port and the red arrow on the left is pointing to the other end of the line that is connected to what I believe is the Procharger intake tube.

It is a little embarrassing writing these notes because it is clear that I am out of my league. Everything I read made it sound like installing an oil separator was foolproof. I sure hope I didn't screw anything up.

Thanks for your help.

drpaul

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jun 30, 2011 (Edited)

Dear Entrenched,

Please let me know if the pics that I posted above don't help. I can take more pics and post them.

You say that your Procharger caps the passenger side. I think that I remember removing a cap from the passenger side vacuum port when I installed the oil separator. I think that it was just a cap. I don't think that it was connected to the Procharger.

Also, you mention adding a separator to prevent oil from being sucked into the supercharger. I don't think that it is what I've done. In fact, while discussing this with the tech this afternoon he said something about the line (with the two red arrows in my pics) sucking the oil into the supercharger. I remember when he said this and thinking that it didn't sound like a good idea to suck oil into the blower. It sounds like I should put an oil separator between the driver-side vacuum port and the Procharger intake tube.

Thanks for your response.

drpaul

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jun 30, 2011

Hotshot,

I was hoping that mine would collect a bunch of oil, too. It is disappointing that mine isn't doing anything....

Entrenched

· #9 · Jun 30, 2011

From page 22 of Procharger HO install instructions:

Locate the PCV bag. There are (2) 5/8”
rubber caps, slide one on each open
bung located on the intake manifold and
the passenger side valve cover. Secure
the cap on the intake manifold with the
provided #10 hose clamp.

Here's a pic of mine, ignore the boss intake it's the same for your car. I'd call procharger and ask them if the way you have it is OK. Let me know what they say. I think adding one to the supercharger side would be ok to prevent oil from going into the supercharger.

3XPASS

· #10 · Jun 30, 2011

I have the same parts installed in my engine about 300 mile ago, i have a Moroso oil air separator. I haven't checked mine for oil yet but i will tomorrow. I have mine lines a little different than you. i blocked off the driver's side and ran the passenger side tube to the oil separator, i then ran the tube from the separator to the intake tube after the inlet filter.
I only got 633 rwhp & 449 lb tq. i have the stock headers and 3" X-pipe with 3" cat back magnaflow. who is your tuner? Mine was BBR (blow by racing). i will let you know once i check my separator if i have any oil in it.

Entrenched

· #11 · Jun 30, 2011

3XPASS said:
I have the same parts installed in my engine about 300 mile ago, i have a Moroso oil air separator. I haven't checked mine for oil yet but i will tomorrow. I have mine lines a little different than you. i blocked off the driver's side and ran the passenger side tube to the oil separator, i then ran the tube from the separator to the intake tube after the inlet filter.
I only got 633 rwhp & 449 lb tq. i have the stock headers and 3" X-pipe with 3" cat back magnaflow. who is your tuner? Mine was BBR (blow by racing). i will let you know once i check my separator if i have any oil in it.

What kind of dyno? Mustang dyno's read lower. Are your numbers SAE with smoothing set @ 5. Mine's a D1 @ 9-10psi with stock 4.63" pulley. Rick @ amazon did my tuning, give him a call and let him know Mike sent you. I've got over 40 dyno pulls to get my consistently over 700 rhwp.

My car made 32 rwhp NA more with longtubes. At this level it has to be worth even more. I don't know anyone else with a D1 kit on a 6M to compare my stuff to.

Chris @ BBR told me there car made 770+ at the tire with 80lb injectors, D1, and a 4.25" pulley (I think). I am in the process of adding a wastegate to the system so I can regulate boost and have it come on earlier. I may fill it up with MS109 and up the boost to see what happens at that point. JPC made 800+ with MS109 (race gas) and a Novi 2200. Ultimately with the wastegate, I'd like to see 8-10 psi @ 3000 rpms and see it hold it to redline. It should be interesting.

Sorry to the OP for the threadjack!

drpaul

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jun 30, 2011 (Edited)

Entrenched said:
From page 22 of Procharger HO install instructions:

Locate the PCV bag. There are (2) 5/8”
rubber caps, slide one on each open
bung located on the intake manifold and
the passenger side valve cover. Secure
the cap on the intake manifold with the
provided #10 hose clamp.

Here's a pic of mine, ignore the boss intake it's the same for your car. I'd call procharger and ask them if the way you have it is OK. Let me know what they say. I think adding one to the supercharger side would be ok to prevent oil from going into the supercharger.

Now that you mention it, I remember pulling off the rubber caps when I installed the oil separator. If I can find the caps that I removed (or if I get some more from Procharger) I could restore my car to the way it was before I installed the separator.

Like you said, I could also call Procharger and ask if my current setup is ok. While I have them on the phone, I could ask about adding the separator to prevent oil from going into the supercharger.

Thanks. That was very helpful.

drpaul

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jun 30, 2011

The tech at Procharger didn't have much to say about the oil separator. He didn't understand why I would want a separator on the passenger side. When I asked about putting a separator between the Procharger intake tube and the driver side vacuum port he couldn't understand that, either. He agreed that the tube between the Procharger intake tube and the driver side vacuum port would suck vapors into the Procharger intake tube but he denied that a separator would catch any oil.

Since the separator isn't doing anything, I am going to remove the oil separator, get the two 5/8" plugs from Procharger, and put the car back the way it was immediately after the blower was installed.

Now the only question is if there is a simple fool-proof way to stop the oil from being sucked into the intake tube?

Entrenched

· #14 · Jun 30, 2011

drpaul said:
The tech at Procharger didn't have much to say about the oil separator. He didn't understand why I would want a separator on the passenger side. When I asked about putting a separator between the Procharger intake tube and the driver side vacuum port he couldn't understand that, either. He agreed that the tube between the Procharger intake tube and the driver side vacuum port would suck vapors into the Procharger intake tube but he denied that a separator would catch any oil.

Since the separator isn't doing anything, I am going to remove the oil separator, get the two 5/8" plugs from Procharger, and put the car back the way it was immediately after the blower was installed.

Now the only question is if there is a simple fool-proof way to stop the oil from being sucked into the intake tube?

If it makes you feel better, I've had my air intake off dozens of times and never found any oil in the tube.

2011GrabberGT

· #15 · Jul 1, 2011

Yeah, in order for your setup to work properly, that passenger side needs to be capped off. That setup uses the driver side as the suction side by generating a venturi effect being located so close to the charger inlet. The driver side is now essentially venting and putting a vacuum on the crankcase. A separator would be more useful on the driver side as it stands. The passenger side will not do much since the PCV valve will slam shut under boost, preventing any crankcase ventilation when you need it most. It should just be capped. If you want a separator, put it on the driver side with that configuration.

2011GrabberGT

· #16 · Jul 1, 2011

Also, the other issue with running it like you have it is that you are essentially creating a vacuum leak at times that will allow unmetered air into the engine without being picked up by the MAF sensor (via the driver side breather). That could be a potentially dangerous situation if you were to go lean under boost. Definitely correct that ASAP to prevent bottom end engine carnage!

drpaul

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jul 1, 2011

2011GrabberGT said:
Also, the other issue with running it like you have it is that you are essentially creating a vacuum leak at times that will allow unmetered air into the engine without being picked up by the MAF sensor (via the driver side breather). That could be a potentially dangerous situation if you were to go lean under boost. Definitely correct that ASAP to prevent bottom end engine carnage!

2011GrabberGT,

Thanks. I think that you are saying the same thing that the tech at the shop that installed my blower said. I'm definitely going to remove the passenger side separator.

I don't have the caps (but will get them). Would it be better to: 1) remove the separator without immediately replacing the caps or 2) wait until I get the caps to remove the separator?

2011GrabberGT

· #18 · Jul 1, 2011

The separator by itself isn't the issue, it is the uncapped throttle body port that the one end connects to that is. That is a vacuum port, so with the other valve cover acting as a breather, it will allow the engine to suck in unmetered air via that breather port. You can get caps for that at any parts store, usually in the HELP section.

If you still want to run a separator, get one or modify the existing one for the driver side instead. That'll ventilate the crankcase and prevent oil from coating the intake tract and intercooler.

drpaul

Discussion Starter · #19 · Jul 1, 2011

Entrenched said:
If it makes you feel better, I've had my air intake off dozens of times and never found any oil in the tube.

Thanks. Where does the blow by oil go? Doesn't it go into the blower (via the intake)?

drpaul

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jul 1, 2011

2011GrabberGT said:
The separator by itself isn't the issue, it is the uncapped throttle body port that the one end connects to that is. That is a vacuum port, so with the other valve cover acting as a breather, it will allow the engine to suck in unmetered air via that breather port. You can get caps for that at any parts store, usually in the HELP section.

If you still want to run a separator, get one or modify the existing one for the driver side instead. That'll ventilate the crankcase and prevent oil from coating the intake tract and intercooler.

Thanks. You've been very helpful. I'll get caps and install them tomorrow. I'd do it right now if the parts store was still open.

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

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