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Where have you been the past 5 months? This has already been "unofficially" confirmed for 2011 by Bill Ford himself.
 

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In all fairness, it's only been a couple months :)

But yeah, those "new" spy photos are the ones that were posted late last year or early this year.

Heres a link to the article posted January 21st with the same engine bay photos from Brenda Priddy

Ford’s 5.0L coyote V8 spied!
 

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The story Tripleblack linked to was dated January 24th so even that isn't new... but these days with the web anything older than 12 hours is old news.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Sooooo...

Where were they posted on AFM? Or in this thread?

For old news, there's a dearth of pics of this engine in a Mustang engine bay around here, but hey, maybe it WILL happen.

But don't take anything Bill Ford tells you to the bank. Ever. Otherwise, we would have been driving Probes badged as Mustangs for a long time now... For instance, was that verification (talking about old news) before or AFTER President Obama changed all the rules and bumped up the dates?

UPDATE: AFTER. Tracked down the video, below. Better than if it had come before...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
New

Yes, the world goes so fast when you are busting your butt keeping a Mustang site between the lines (as a volunteer) while working 60 hour weeks scrambling around the Southeast making a living...

I could easily have identified some older photos as "new", but hey, looking back, I just identified the engine as new, so its all good. Sorry they aren't more new - or that the news weren't better.

UPDATE May 18: Slightly more news, this time from Australia (and they should know). http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=62920

May 19: Another blog, maybe some worthwhile details http://www.ask.com/bar?q=ford+coyote+engine+last%3Amonth&page=1&qsrc=196&ab=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmustangs.about.com%2Fb%2F2009%2F05%2F19%2Fwork-continues-on-fords-400-hp-coyote-50l-engine.htm

Jun 15: The famous interview with Bill Ford, and mention of "...the Mustang with 400hp". Given that the EcoBoost TT V6 could do this as well, if not a supercharged version of a mod motor, its not a sure thing that he was talking about the Coyote... But it is a good sign, I would think.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1152831239&play=1
 

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Yeah with all the rumors circling, I have to imagine there is SOMETHING new coming for the 2011. There's got to be either the TT EB or the 5.0L Coyote or maybe even both. Only time will tell, but I for one am salivating at the mouth waiting to find out. I'm sure I'm not the only one :)
 

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Don't sweat it, but yeah, the pictures have been in several threads here. It's been months, though. They're probably buried in the 2005+ forum by now. The only finger pointing should be at AFM as a whole, since we didn't really get a 2010 sub-forum until fairly recently, and we're months behind other forums on the Ecoboost and Coyote discussions.

Both engines are Ford official. The 5.0L is official for the Mustang, with the Ecoboost a strong option (if it's going in Lincolns, the Flex, and the Taurus, why wouldn't it make it to the 'Stang?)

The only real debate now is whether the Coyote will have 400 HP or more like 375 HP. We could start the discussion there. No use in spinning our wheels on an engine that IS coming in 2011 :shiny:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Coyote

I'm still questioning the CAFE numbers for the 400+hp Coyote, which are the real jokers in the deck. Perhaps you are right, they may have to detune it to squeeze out some more gas mileage, which would be a shame. I am confident that some version of the Coyote will end up in the F150 line (trucks get some extra room to maneuver with CAFE), and of course the Aussies will put it in their Falcons, but there is still doubt about the Mustang application.

The news that GM has closed down their performance center does not bode well for them of course, but even without that resource if they continue with the Camaro (and they must if they expect to recover the billions they sank into its research, development and tooling), Ford should compete, though they will control how many of the Coyotes they sell in Mustangs via model assignments and price.

My background is as an industrial engineer (ergo, I know a little something about how to build cars, but a LOT about how to build the factories that build cars). I am going to poke around and see what the AIA plant's owners (Mazda) are doing with their half of the factory. If it were my project, I would already be setting up the Mazda line for any new drivetrains coming down the pike - their concerns with CAFE are a lot less than Ford's, of course. If the Eco-Boost is as good as we all hope it is, Mazda might be planning to use them in their cars.



Don't sweat it, but yeah, the pictures have been in several threads here. It's been months, though. They're probably buried in the 2005+ forum by now. The only finger pointing should be at AFM as a whole, since we didn't really get a 2010 sub-forum until fairly recently, and we're months behind other forums on the Ecoboost and Coyote discussions.

Both engines are Ford official. The 5.0L is official for the Mustang, with the Ecoboost a strong option (if it's going in Lincolns, the Flex, and the Taurus, why wouldn't it make it to the 'Stang?)

The only real debate now is whether the Coyote will have 400 HP or more like 375 HP. We could start the discussion there. No use in spinning our wheels on an engine that IS coming in 2011 :shiny:
 

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I'm still questioning the CAFE numbers for the 400+hp Coyote, which are the real jokers in the deck. Perhaps you are right, they may have to detune it to squeeze out some more gas mileage, which would be a shame. I am confident that some version of the Coyote will end up in the F150 line (trucks get some extra room to maneuver with CAFE), and of course the Aussies will put it in their Falcons, but there is still doubt about the Mustang application.

My background is as an industrial engineer (ergo, I know a little something about how to build cars, but a LOT about how to build the factories that build cars). I am going to poke around and see what the AIA plant's owners (Mazda) are doing with their half of the factory. If it were my project, I would already be setting up the Mazda line for any new drivetrains coming down the pike - their concerns with CAFE are a lot less than Ford's, of course. If the Eco-Boost is as good as we all hope it is, Mazda might be planning to use them in their cars.
We must've summoned something, because a Ford rep at another forum posted this up last night:

"As Per Ford Parts Division Info.

Listed as Specific 2011 Mustang Powertrains. I have Part Numbers and All Specific Engine Component part Numbers. Most are Mustang Specific Part Numbers. They are Different Components than Listed for Milan Zepher Etc.

3.7 Litre V6 4v Auto & Standard Trans Listings

5.0 L 4V Standard & Auto Trans Listings.

5.4L 4V Supercharged Listing."

 

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Yeah, looking ahead & CAFE certainly makes things interesting. There's no question that the Camaro has driven this huge horsepower leap. To a certain extent, their minds must be on besting the Camaro (even though the 2010 does that in 75% of the tests already). The Mustang has the engine tech and overall curb weight going for it, so hopefully it's not a huge hit to the fleet. Several questions have come up over and over again:

1. You mentioned model assignments. Will the base GT get the Coyote? From last night's info (above) it appears yes, but this could still be a question. A special edition with a hi-po 5.0L has been mentioned, which has spawned the base 375HP/400HP speculation.

2. Will the Ecoboost be a GT option or a special edition like SVO? I tend to think TT 3.5 in an SE for Mustang. Either way, it's a great engine that the company feels comfortable enough about to drop into many different models.

3. Will the Coyote be direct injection? Everyone now says no, possibly a year after initial release. That would only help the fuel economy.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The Scoop

2011 is now "ahead" for Cafe - Obama announced pulling the 2015 standard goals up by 4 years weeks ago. That means that the normal 5 year cycle gets to be 1 year. REALLY hard to make back the investment on a new engine in that brief sales period, particularly when the sales are looking bad at best.

GM is already hung, producing the SS Camaro, but they have a 2010 model allready on the market - and its drivetrain is nothing new, just re-warmed stuff whose tooling and development was paid for long ago. Besides, Government Motors is not spending their own money anymore, are they?

Ford will HAVE to go in with what they have ready, its too late for them to change their plans for 2010, but 2011 could see something strange happen with the engine choices. I would not think that ANY of the plan laid months ago will survive contact with the enemy, er, Obama's time-travel CAFE plan.

If we're lucky the initial numbers for all the new small cars coming on stream from Ford over the next 2 years will look great - and their hybrids will jump off the shelves - so there will be some breathing space to allow the GT to come standard with a 400+hp V8, and leave the V6's as the 300hp na versions (tough on the current GT crop, though, to see new V6 Mustangs running around with the same hp as they have, but they will sell like hotcakes). I would bet money that the TT version will be a Special Edition in that scenario, while a supercharged 5.0 will be another for the V8 crowd.

I did some asking around about the plans for the Mazda 6 half of AIA, and got some jumbled responses. For one thing, they ARE planning a new MazdaSpeed 6, one with a turbocharged V6, but not sure yet if it will be a TT or not (or whether it will use the same engine as the EcoBoost). Mazda is very focused on bringing in DIESELS instead of Hybrids - and this will include some turbocharged engines as well. Both Ford and Mazda have pursued a diesel strategy in Europe with success, so this may be their way of hedging their Hybrid bets. Mazda's information states clearly that they see a marketing advantage because they can build diesel cars with superior performance to comparable Hybrids, which sell for a lot less than the Hybrids, but equal the Hybrids fuel economy.

So...

The idea that the AIA plant might one day feature Mustangs AND Mazdas rolling down a combined line is probably still just a pipedream, at least for the next 5 or 6 years.

Has anyone tried out one of the Lincolns?

Yeah, looking ahead & CAFE certainly makes things interesting. There's no question that the Camaro has driven this huge horsepower leap. To a certain extent, their minds must be on besting the Camaro (even though the 2010 does that in 75% of the tests already). The Mustang has the engine tech and overall curb weight going for it, so hopefully it's not a huge hit to the fleet. Several questions have come up over and over again:

1. You mentioned model assignments. Will the base GT get the Coyote? From last night's info (above) it appears yes, but this could still be a question. A special edition with a hi-po 5.0L has been mentioned, which has spawned the base 375HP/400HP speculation.

2. Will the Ecoboost be a GT option or a special edition like SVO? I tend to think TT 3.5 in an SE for Mustang. Either way, it's a great engine that the company feels comfortable enough about to drop into many different models.

3. Will the Coyote be direct injection? Everyone now says no, possibly a year after initial release. That would only help the fuel economy.
 

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Check out these articles for a take on the Ecoboost in the Lincolns and the Flex, particularly the first one:

Jalopnik - EcoBoost Goes Drag: Ford Flex, Lincoln MKS Hit The Strip - Lincoln MKS EcoBoost

Jalopnik - 2010 Lincoln MKT EcoBoost: First Drive - Lincoln MKT

A 4,500 lb. Lincoln can turn a 13.9 at the hands of an amateur. In the Mustang this will be killer. I'm not even sure the Coyote would keep up. Certainly not once the tuners get their hands on the TT 3.5.

You're right, the small cars will help out a great deal with fuel economy and profitability if they're as fun to drive as the Euro versions. The Ecoboost line should add a turbo 4 cylinder in the future if the rumors prove true.

The Fusion hybrid is pretty amazing for what it allows a person to get in that segment. If someone was forcing me into a hybrid, I'd have a real alternative to a Prius driving appliance. Interesting, I hadn't heard about the Mazda diesel plans, but it's worth a try - if people can get it through their heads to try one. At least the price of diesel is finally back to reasonable levels.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
4500#

Cool!

Of course, I believe that was the 4500# Flex and it ran 14.5, but still cool.

The 13.9 in a Lincoln was something to see.

355hp from the V6 is with a pretty sedate tune, too.

Check out these articles for a take on the Ecoboost in the Lincolns and the Flex, particularly the first one:

Jalopnik - EcoBoost Goes Drag: Ford Flex, Lincoln MKS Hit The Strip - Lincoln MKS EcoBoost

Jalopnik - 2010 Lincoln MKT EcoBoost: First Drive - Lincoln MKT

A 4,500 lb. Lincoln can turn a 13.9 at the hands of an amateur. In the Mustang this will be killer. I'm not even sure the Coyote would keep up. Certainly not once the tuners get their hands on the TT 3.5.

You're right, the small cars will help out a great deal with fuel economy and profitability if they're as fun to drive as the Euro versions. The Ecoboost line should add a turbo 4 cylinder in the future if the rumors prove true.

The Fusion hybrid is pretty amazing for what it allows a person to get in that segment. If someone was forcing me into a hybrid, I'd have a real alternative to a Prius driving appliance. Interesting, I hadn't heard about the Mazda diesel plans, but it's worth a try - if people can get it through their heads to try one. At least the price of diesel is finally back to reasonable levels.
 

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We must've summoned something, because a Ford rep at another forum posted this up last night:

"As Per Ford Parts Division Info.

Listed as Specific 2011 Mustang Powertrains. I have Part Numbers and All Specific Engine Component part Numbers. Most are Mustang Specific Part Numbers. They are Different Components than Listed for Milan Zepher Etc.

3.7 Litre V6 4v Auto & Standard Trans Listings

5.0 L 4V Standard & Auto Trans Listings.

5.4L 4V Supercharged Listing."

Ford is currently trying to do some damage control regarding this info. I guess it could have a detrimental effect on the 2010 sales :shigrin.

About the Ecoboost, I guess I got caught up looking at the Flex numbers. The MKS is around 4,100.
 

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That EB is going to be one of hell of an engine. I bet with tweaking it could be more powerful than the 5.0L. However, if you were going for max power, wouldn't you rather buy the 5.0L and add your own TT later? I don't see the EB keeping up with a TT Coyote...

For people not willing to put that kind of work or mod their car to that extent though, I'm guessing the EB will be more popular.
 

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The EB may be more popular with tuners, and have great potential, but most of the musclecar guys are gonna want a V8. I would think the coyote with a mild supercharger would be in the 550 hp range. Once you start talking that much HP, most won't be able to control it, and start looking at traction, regardless of which engine you're using.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
A lot will depend on how the tax penalties coming at us work out. If the government decides to slap V8s in cars with more carbon taxes than V6s, money starts to drive folks in a given direction.

There's a reason why 60% of all cars in Europe are diesels...

Fuel costs were jacked up and up and up with ever more taxes, until folks were driven (like cattle with a cattle prod) in the direction the government wanted them to go.

CAFE is our own really lame methodology that we have used here, instead of taxes, but I am seeing that process changing to one much more like the one used in Europe.

BUT I hope it doesn't go that route - we might get lucky.

Just curious, how many of you would consider a quick trade-in if Ford does offer the Coyote in the GT at something close to a reasonable price (I would think there would HAVE to be a price increase of some size for that new tech with the DOHC)?

If they can do that, I would probably buy one myself. To my way of thinking it is likely to be the "last V8 Mustang", and hopefully the most powerful and the best GT ever.
 

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I'm seriously considering it. I have put off buying any mods for my car until I know for sure what is coming out in 2011. I like the new styling to begin with and the track pack sounds pretty sweet. If they put the 5.0L with 400hp in it for close to the same price as it is now, I will certainly look into buying one.

The only thing that makes me sad is no more screaming yellow :(
 
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