Please help with dyno result

1802 Views 19 Replies 8 Participants Last post by 1990LX50, Jul 23, 2009

abud_1999

Discussion Starter · Jul 8, 2009

2

I just returned from dyno, I was accepting between 260 to 270, but I got 223 in the first run, the guy said your car run too rich so he advised me to disconnect the fuel management Unit and adjust the fuel regulator from 40 to 50 so I did, second run I got 241 and again he said it's too lean.
Now his asking for $500 for chip to solve the problem, I was thinking to get tweecer RT since I have carputer in my car.

5.0 stock sn95 engine, vortech v1 6 psi, shorty headers, flowmaster catback, AODE with improver kit, 3.55 gear, 19 LBS injector.

Please help.

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2oo5GT

· #2 · Jul 8, 2009

Your 5.0 minus the SC would probably put down 170-180 since it's an auto, so a 60-70rwhp jump with the SC on 6psi is good. If you can can rid of the restrictive intake and heads, you should be over 300rwhp. Also i would get 24lb injectors, 255 intank pump and mass air for 24lb injectors.
Also i know the 94-95 EEC IV's don't like alot of mods. They tend to stay inside the boundries that it knows. The chip will help out alot.

abud_1999

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jul 8, 2009

thanks for you fast replay:bigthumbsup

for the time being, should i remove the FMU or like the guy said it will run too lean :headscratch:

Diego

· #4 · Jul 8, 2009

you dont want to be running lean with boost, you could blow a hole through a piston. Take it slow for now, upgrade injectors, MAF, and try contacting motorvation for a custom chip. SPM for pricing on some of this. LRS just put up a thread about hacing some 24lbs injectors at $100...can't beat that. your dyno result even though is not as good as you thought will only get better with the rest of the mods. Save up and put a top end kit from trick flow on it and you'll be set somewhere around 400hp. :bigthumbsup

EagleAutosports

· #5 · Jul 8, 2009

$500 for a chip is actually cheap, considering the work involved to make one.

2oo5GT

· #6 · Jul 8, 2009

i would plug the FMU back in. you had less rwhp but you were running rich (but looking at the dyno sheet and your mods and boost) it's a good AF ratio
When you unplugged it, you did get more rwhp but the AF went higher which means your running leaner and that's not good at all.
If you can not get the heads or intake, i would alteast invest in the bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump and a mass air to match the injectors. The chip will work out great to but don't let him lean it out just to make some power. I'd rather have 223rwhp and can beat on it all day long than to make 241rwhp and beat on it a fewtimes and the motor pops due to detonation.
Goodluck with it:bigthumbsup

Diego

· #7 · Jul 8, 2009

with the $500 price tag on that chip they're making a profit, call motorvation directly and I bet you its cheaper then that.

samotrx7

· #8 · Jul 8, 2009

Get rid of those 19 lbs. injectors! On boost those things have to be near max duty cycle which can be dangerous. If he's offering 500 for the chip and dynotune that that's an awesome price, but to really get optimal results you're going to have to run bigger injectors.

G

· #9 · Jul 9, 2009

EagleAutosports said:
$500 for a chip is actually cheap, considering the work involved to make one.

+1.........:bigthumbsup

******* said:
with the $500 price tag on that chip they're making a profit, call motorvation directly and I bet you its cheaper then that.

Avoid mail-order chips

Have the tuner burn one for your car.......

Old man

· #10 · Jul 9, 2009

I just went through all this in an expensive learning curve.

You can get the car to run fine with the FMU but you need a smaller disc. I assume you have the 9:1 in it now. You probably need a 6:1 or smaller. I used the smallest disk they make for my FMU and mixture was pretty good.

If you upgrade injectors or pressure without the FMU you will need to reprogram the computer.

I used a Tweecer RT with a wideband oxygen sensor, and eventually learned how to do my own adjustments. People on MOST tune forums (not everyone, but definitely most) are not very helpful to new people. One exception is the Tweecer mail list.

I can now hit very close first try. You MUST have a known calibration MAF meter. If you want to save time and money, don't buy an aftermarket odd brand unless it has calibration curves. I use a supercharged Lightning truck MAF, but you can use something much smaller at 5-7 pounds boost with a stock engine. You probably need around a 24-30 lb injector. 30 would leave you room to grow a bit.

With a little extra fuel pressure I was able to get good mixture with about 400-425 HP using a 30 lb Summit injector and a MAF meter from Summit calibrated for those injectors. I had to learn the curve for the Summit MAF meter though!

Personally, I think you could do alright with a Tweecer and a known calibration MAF meter but you would invest about $700 in the tune equipment. The nice thing is once you do that, you don't ever need a dyno.

If you don't plan on changing the car much from what you initially tune, it is cheaper just to pay for a tune.

Tom

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abud_1999

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jul 9, 2009

RLG34750 said:
Have the tuner burn one for your car.......

yes the guy said he will do burning in his shop.

Old man said:
I just went through all this in an expensive learning curve.

You can get the car to run fine with the FMU but you need a smaller disc. I assume you have the 9:1 in it now. You probably need a 6:1 or smaller. I used the smallest disk they make for my FMU and mixture was pretty good.

If you upgrade injectors or pressure without the FMU you will need to reprogram the computer.

I used a Tweecer RT with a wideband oxygen sensor, and eventually learned how to do my own adjustments. People on MOST tune forums (not everyone, but definitely most) are not very helpful to new people. One exception is the Tweecer mail list.

I can now hit very close first try. You MUST have a known calibration MAF meter. If you want to save time and money, don't buy an aftermarket odd brand unless it has calibration curves. I use a supercharged Lightning truck MAF, but you can use something much smaller at 5-7 pounds boost with a stock engine. You probably need around a 24-30 lb injector. 30 would leave you room to grow a bit.

With a little extra fuel pressure I was able to get good mixture with about 400-425 HP using a 30 lb Summit injector and a MAF meter from Summit calibrated for those injectors. I had to learn the curve for the Summit MAF meter though!

Personally, I think you could do alright with a Tweecer and a known calibration MAF meter but you would invest about $700 in the tune equipment. The nice thing is once you do that, you don't ever need a dyno.

If you don't plan on changing the car much from what you initially tune, it is cheaper just to pay for a tune.

Tom

I have already dedicated $3000 to spend it on my car; I was thinking to get a TKO 600 conversion kit, but with the current reading T-5 its okay I think.
Usually I work in my garage, I believe it’s a part of the enjoinment, so now it’s the time for learning something new, ill order Tweecer RT and a wide band oxygen sensor and save dyno money .
Now I need an advice which one first transmission or top end kit???? And can my stock engine handle top end kit like trickflow with 6 psi??

Old man

· #12 · Jul 9, 2009

abud_1999 said:
I have already dedicated $3000 to spend it on my car; I was thinking to get a TKO 600 conversion kit, but with the current reading T-5 its okay I think.

I'm planning on a TKO 600 also. When my T5 goes, which it will. :shigrin

Usually I work in my garage, I believe it’s a part of the enjoinment, so now it’s the time for learning something new, ill order Tweecer RT and a wide band oxygen sensor and save dyno money .

I decided the same thing. I was a little dismayed at the lack of help on some tuner forums, and a little dismayed by the poor or incomplete tuning instructions, but overall it has been fun. Plus now I can make any change I like and have a free fresh tune in a few minutes.

I use a laptop and a LM2 wide band recorder. I record engine functions with my laptop and RPM/mixture with the LM2. The LM2 has some firmware bugs and the manufacturer is in denial, so I won't recommend one of them but I do have mine working.

Now I need an advice which one first transmission or top end kit???? And can my stock engine handle top end kit like trickflow with 6 psi??

I started with TFS twisted wedge heads, TFS intake, and an F cam. I just bolted it all on my 100,000 mile 89 HO with the expectation that if or when it blows I'll get a good short block. Then I added the blower.

That block is handling 10 lbs boost now and going over 122 in the 1/4 mile in a 3200 lb car with slippery tires. My boost increased over 2 lbs just by getting rid of inlet restrictions by using a better MAF meter and bigger surface area air filter.

I still have the stock T-5 in the car. I'm not sure which will blow first, but the engine has no spark knock and has no problems at all handling the 10lbs of boost at 6000+ RPM (ouch, 7000 RPM through the lights with the hydraulic roller). If you don't power shift all the time the tranny will last a while.

I just figured it would be more fun to learn, plus now I can change anything I like and retune.

Tom

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abud_1999

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jul 9, 2009

I was looking for a good top end kit combination with a good price; I found at LRS with $1600 GT-40p with cobra intake and with $1900 patriot heads with typhoon intake, it's very cheap :scratchchin

Next month after return back from Europe I will order tweecer RT and connect it with my onboard computer, hope you will help me with that.:hihi:

What is the optimal ratio and what's the boundary where I go rich and lean, I still can't understand how to read my dyno result. :headscratch:

Old man

· #14 · Jul 9, 2009

abud_1999 said:
I was looking for a good top end kit combination with a good price; I found at LRS with $1600 GT-40p with cobra intake and with $1900 patriot heads with typhoon intake, it's very cheap :scratchchin

It all depends on what you want to do. The intake system after the booster isn't quite as critical as naturally asparated, but you still might want to look at something better. I had a GT40 intake system, but I looked at some dyno tests and settled on the TFS stuff. I eBayed my GT40 stuff for about $450.

The biggest mistake I always do is buying things too small.

Next month after return back from Europe I will order tweecer RT and connect it with my onboard computer, hope you will help me with that.:hihi:

Be glad to. There is also the tweecer discussion reflector.

What is the optimal ratio and what's the boundary where I go rich and lean, I still can't understand how to read my dyno result. :headscratch:

Better too rich than too lean. I try for around 12.5 to 13:1 AFR as a target. My car pigs out at 9:1 or so, and I never run it leaner than 13.5 under WOT. I'm sure every system varies, but with the timing I run and premimum pump fuel I have no signs of pings or rattles and make good acceleration with around 12 to 13:1 AFR. My car is a little faster at 13.5:1 than at 13:1 for the same boost, but I stay richer to be safer on the motor.

Tom

abud_1999

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jul 9, 2009

Defiantly right TFS is one of the best specially for street racer, but $ 1000 difference I can get more staff mentioning that I need TB and elbow EGR plat 24 Air Mass Flow with injectors shipping cost will be very expensive too, do you have any idea about patriot heads with typhoon intake? :headscratch:

I was checking the staff from Innovate and it's very important to have Tweecer with wide band oxygen sensor, but does tweecer RT give any AIR/Fuel Reading?? :scratchchin

with 241 hp and 283 tourqe my AFR was 12.79 is that lean enough to lose my engine?:scratchchin and what about in cursing mode AFR what is the optimal ??

best regards TOM:bigthumbsup

Old man

· #16 · Jul 9, 2009

abud_1999 said:
Defiantly right TFS is one of the best specially for street racer, but $ 1000 difference I can get more staff mentioning that I need TB and elbow EGR plat 24 Air Mass Flow with injectors shipping cost will be very expensive too, do you have any idea about patriot heads with typhoon intake? :headscratch:

I have no experience with those heads or that intake. When you force air through the EGR and TB with boost, a much smaller TB and EGR will work than with natural airflow. I'm 10 lbs boost in the manifold with a 65 mm TB and EGR, and only just barely over 10 lbs between the SC and the TB. Clearly the 65 mm isn't holding things up.

I was checking the staff from Innovate and it's very important to have Tweecer with wide band oxygen sensor, but does tweecer RT give any AIR/Fuel Reading?? :scratchchin

Yes, the tweecer can record AF ratio but you have to interface a wideband O2 into it. Then it will record AF ratio. I have a separate LM2 wide band O2 .

with 241 hp and 283 tourqe my AFR was 12.79 is that lean enough to lose my engine?:scratchchin and what about in cursing mode AFR what is the optimal ??

I would not think so. 12:1 is what most people seem to like. The key is if it detonates or not. Mine is fine at 13:1 . Higher boost levels will require richer mixtures. You really do not have that much boost. I'm running 10 lbs and have no knock and the exhaust header temps are good at around 13:1 AFR.

Tom

1990LX50

· #17 · Jul 10, 2009

abud_1999 said:
I just returned from dyno, I was accepting between 260 to 270, but I got 223 in the first run, the guy said your car run too rich so he advised me to disconnect the fuel management Unit and adjust the fuel regulator from 40 to 50 so I did, second run I got 241 and again he said it's too lean.
Now his asking for $500 for chip to solve the problem, I was thinking to get tweecer RT since I have carputer in my car.

5.0 stock sn95 engine, vortech v1 6 psi, shorty headers, flowmaster catback, AODE with improver kit, 3.55 gear, 19 LBS injector.

Please help.

500 isn't bad for a chip and Dyno tune.

I paid 600 but mine was also done by Bob Kurgan who is the God of Mustang Tuning. Def get rid of the 19lbs injectors. I have a dss 306 with 24 lbs injectors, 255 lph pump, gt40p heads. e303, cobra intake and got 256hp and 311tq to the tires just a week ago.

abud_1999

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jul 10, 2009

1990LX50 said:
500 isn't bad for a chip and Dyno tune.

I paid 600 but mine was also done by Bob Kurgan who is the God of Mustang Tuning. Def get rid of the 19lbs injectors. I have a dss 306 with 24 lbs injectors, 255 lph pump, gt40p heads. e303, cobra intake and got 256hp and 311tq to the tires just a week ago.

Amaizing, what is your current AFR, and what heads you have now, GT-40p or GT-40X and what about your tranny.

Brutal Metal

· #19 · Jul 10, 2009

You FOR SURE want to keep your Fuel Management, don't disconnect that, it raises the fuel pressure under Boost which is NEEDED! And it's common for guys to expect Big numbers on the Dyno only to be a little disappointed, my friends Joes Stang Speed Shop see's it everyday, your pretty close to where you want to be and the chip will also help you reach the HP number goals!

1990LX50

· #20 · Jul 23, 2009

abud_1999 said:
Amaizing, what is your current AFR, and what heads you have now, GT-40p or GT-40X and what about your tranny.

AFR is 13....I have the GT-40P Heads.

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