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Discussion Starter #1
I will be going to the dealership on Saturday. I am an X-Plan member but would like to get a better price so is invoice a fair offer for a Base 2011 GT? Also do you think its possible to purchase this at under invoice and if so how much under?

On the final costs I have calculated invoice at $27,385 - $2000 bonus cash - $500 student discount - $750 private cash. So this is $24135 before taxes. Is this right or could it be better/worse?

Also when leaving I know Taxes, Titles, and Registration is added, what other dealer fees should I expect and can I haggle these?

Thanks
 

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oh on paper it may look that way, but once you see all the games the dealer will play you won't get out the door anywhere near that price, I'd never buy a car from a dealer, I'd rather pay cash for a preowned one off a private individual.
 

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If you can get it for 24K + tax then I'd say you won't get a much better deal than that. I'd find out the stipulations on all those discounts though, sometimes they'll require you to finance thru them to get them and bump up your interest rate a point or two to make up the difference or require a certain amount of years financed. Then sometimes if you don't finance thru them then they will only honor certain discounts/rebates. Either way they will always have little tricks and will alter the numbers to make as much money as they can. At least that's what I ran in to when buying mine. I ended up paying 31.4K for mine before tax using the x-plan which I think is pretty good from what the sticker price was.
 

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what other dealer fees should I expect and can I haggle these
Don't haggle over the individual items that make up the total. That just makes for more haggling and more chances for them to prevail.

There will be at least one fee for document processing. You probably know that X-plan sales cap that at a reasonable amount ($75? too lazy to look up). Some states/cities also have a cap. Your target should be to pay $75 or less BUT as I said, don't bring it up or negotiate the fee by itself.

FYI, doc fees are a way for dealers to reduce the commissions they pay (if the salespeople get commissions based on sale prices). They set high doc fees and refuse to negotiate them but reduce the lowest price they will take for the car by a like amount. So basically if they have a $500 fee and it costs them $75 to do the doc, they don't have to pay commission on $425.

But if you do decide to negotiate fees, I recommend demanding to pay $5,000 for fees because the sales manager will probably be willing to knock more than $5000 of the purchase price LoL.
 

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I don't believe your dealer will let you use the brochure offer AND student offer. At least mine wouldn't.
 

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Don't haggle over the individual items that make up the total. That just makes for more haggling and more chances for them to prevail.

There will be at least one fee for document processing. You probably know that X-plan sales cap that at a reasonable amount ($75? too lazy to look up). Some states/cities also have a cap. Your target should be to pay $75 or less BUT as I said, don't bring it up or negotiate the fee by itself.

FYI, doc fees are a way for dealers to reduce the commissions they pay (if the salespeople get commissions based on sale prices). They set high doc fees and refuse to negotiate them but reduce the lowest price they will take for the car by a like amount. So basically if they have a $500 fee and it costs them $75 to do the doc, they don't have to pay commission on $425.

But if you do decide to negotiate fees, I recommend demanding to pay $5,000 for fees because the sales manager will probably be willing to knock more than $5000 of the purchase price LoL.
I learned something new today, thanks. I didn't know dealers do not pay commission on the doc fees. Makes since, now I know why they are so over inflated, this use to really piss me off. It would not have made my deal any sweater though because I negotiated the total cost of the car. Plus I got 0% financing for 60 months. Sounds like the salesmen get screwed out of some money.
 

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I don't believe your dealer will let you use the brochure offer AND student offer. At least mine wouldn't.
They won't take it. It's like another thread where the dealer told someone they could use the $750 coupon on an A plan. In the end, they rejected the coupon. Fortunately, the buyer was expecting that.

The sales people may be just clueless but I suspect some know it won't fly but say they will do it to give them a competitive advantage over any other dealer that doesn't say they will take both. Then they act all apologetic when the computer rejects it at time of sale and blame Ford for having such a complicated system.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks Hoosier I'm also expecting to get the student declined. But was wondering if everything else in my calculations were ok.
 

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oh on paper it may look that way, but once you see all the games the dealer will play you won't get out the door anywhere near that price, I'd never buy a car from a dealer, I'd rather pay cash for a preowned one off a private individual.
^^^^^^ This +1

I bought my '11 GT with 11,500 miles and saved 25% off what the original purchaser paid for it. And it still smells new.
 

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Thanks Hoosier I'm also expecting to get the student declined. But was wondering if everything else in my calculations were ok.
I think so. FWIW some (most?) dealers will sell 2011s for below invoice but it might take some work. If you don't have a lot of experience (and don't want to earn some the hard way) go with the X-plan, especially if the dealer has a substantially higher doc fee for non plan sales. You will almost certainly pay more for the car itself, but will make all or most of it up on the doc fees.

And if you do want experience haggling and learning what a dealer will throw at you, there is a way to get that experience without risking your wallet. I might piss off some salespeople for saying/doing this, but in my youth, I would go thru the entire process many times at many dealers with no intention of buying anything, just to learn their tricks. You learn a lot more when you have no emotions or car lust clouding your mind. What got me over the ethical hump that would keep me from wasting someone's time was when a co-worker got absolutely screwed on her first new car deal. I'm talking paying double the advertised price before the deal was over. After that my conscience didn't bother me if I wasted a little of some sales person's time.
 

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Thanks again Hoosier... any idea how much the fees will be? ball park figure?
Ummm.... Ask the dealer? They're really not your 'enemy'. If you ask them to estimate the assorted state fees, they should be able and willing to do that.
As for price, have a figure (out-the-door) in your head, go to the dealer, look at the sticker(s) on the car(s) you're interested in and compare. With my base '11 GT (6-spd, 3.73), the sticker was $30,800. Sales tax here is 9.75%, so would have been just short of $3000. There was also a 'mandatory' $850 'delivery fee' from Ford, plus (estimated) $500 in DMV fees. I did have the $750 brochure coupon, and ended up getting the car OTD for $30,150. I was happy to save over $4000, they made a reasonable profit- win/win.
In my experience, as long as you don't insist on a ridiculously low price, they will be willing to meet you and sell the car. The entire 'haggling' time with mine was about 3 minutes.
YMMV.
 

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On the final costs I have calculated invoice at $27,385 - $2000 bonus cash - $500 student discount - $750 private cash. So this is $24135 before taxes. Is this right or could it be better/worse

Thanks
Between the Ford rebates and the dealer's need to move out the 2011s I would think you should be able to get it below invoice but maybe not by as much as you have calculated. This is little more than an educated guess on my part. However, using the eBay new car configurator shown here:

New car pictures, price, reviews - eBay Motors

the "pre-agreed" selling price on a base GT comes in at $26,035. For my neck of the woods, that is.

If the stats are accurate (they may not be, because the eBay invoice is listed at $28,835) the dealer cost is $25,946. If you can nail them down to a number below that then you have gotten a fantastic deal (click on the dealer cost graphic and it explains how they calculate it from the invoice price).

Since the dealer is surely aware of the factory rebates from Ford wouldn't they include those in the initial offer that a customer makes? Or at the very least, in their counter-offer (assuming that one would be made)? FYI: these are not rhetorical questions but real ones that I am now wondering about after you have explained your calculations.

They would not know about your qualifying for the student discount and your private cash via Ford until later in the negotiations process. But, like another poster mentioned it would be doubtful if they would accept both of those.

If you can somehow find out that the car has been on the lot for more than 2-3 months then be sure to know about dealer holdback. If they have had it at least that long then they should be bleeding a couple hundred bucks a month (or so) in interest rates for the loan that they took out on the car. Consequently, they are more motivated to make deals on those cars.

Don't expect to cut into the dealer holdback but just keep it in mind as you go through the process. If they claim poverty on the deal that you propose then you can call them on it, if you wanted to.

Be sure to let us know what happens. I am especially curious to see how you do because I am in the same boat as you are. I just can't decide between the base and premium models. I am not sure if it's worth the jump in price, for me.

Best of luck amigo :)
--Ryan
 
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