[Dana's 65]

My daughter's '65 Mustang has most of the original wiring, which is in serviceable but very sad shape. I have completely wired a '55 Chevy and a '66 SS Chevelle, and i would like to undertake a Spring project to do her car back to front. A couple of questions for those experienced: can the Mustang dash be removed rfom the interior so it can be laid on a bench and renovated/rewired? the reason I ask is the Chevys both unbolted and came out easily, enabling a complete rewire before installation with new switches, etc.
Is one wiring kit for the Mustang better than others/ I have used both Ron Francis and American Autowire, and prefer RF, but yield to those with Mustang experience! Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Driveway]

The dash is welded in place. If you were doing a complete gut job of the entire car for blasting it is possible to remove it by grinding out the welds, but in your case that is way overkill.

There are a few things you can do to make it easier. Remove the following items:
- front seats
- Steering wheel
- gear shift
- instrument cluster
- radio and speaker
- glove box insert
- console

I would also suggest you put the fuse box in a better place so you can check fuses easily.

 

[sp66stang]

if you are going stock I would just get stock replacement. its a plug and play, take a afternoon to do the whole car.

 

[Veronica]

Hello. The dash is welded in, as has already been stated, but, rewiring a 65 Mustang isn't a big deal at all. You remove the instrument cluster and glove box, driver's side scuff plate and kick panel, back seat and driver's side rear interior trim panel, then snatch all of that old stuff out of there. Someone that has any experience at all with wiring an old car can easily accomplish the entire job at a leisurely pace on a Saturday. The best wiring harnesses available, other than NOS Ford ( prohibitively expensive ) are the ones made by a company called Alloy Metal Products. There are only five harnesses in the entire car. The main underdash harness, taillight, headlight, engine gauge feed, and alternator harnesses, which will cost less than 800 bucks for the entire bundle, with the main underdash harness making up more than half of the bottom line total.

 

[Dana's 65]

Hello. The dash is welded in, as has already been stated, but, rewiring a 65 Mustang isn't a big deal at all. You remove the instrument cluster and glove box, driver's side scuff plate and kick panel, back seat and driver's side rear interior trim panel, then snatch all of that old stuff out of there. Someone that has any experience at all with wiring an old car can easily accomplish the entire job at a leisurely pace on a Saturday. The best wiring harnesses available, other than NOS Ford ( prohibitively expensive ) are the ones made by a company called Alloy Metal Products. There are only five harnesses in the entire car. The main underdash harness, taillight, headlight, engine gauge feed, and alternator harnesses, which will cost less than 800 bucks for the entire bundle, with the main underdash harness making up more than half of the bottom line total.

Hi, Veronica, and thanks for the advice. Does this kit change from the present power supply design to one where the alternator is powering all circuits through the fuse panel? I am so used to that design with Chevys that it makes a lot more sense than what was installed from the factory....or, am i better off to just unplug and replace and not go through any more agony than I really need to?

Thanks so much for answering!

David

 

[rex1965]

I'm confused by the last question, as the battery +, the alternator +, and the main + wire for the harness to the car all connect to the battery side of the starter solonoid, so it is like most cars, when the engine is not running the battery is supplying power, when the engine is running the alternator is supplying more voltage than the battery so everything runs off the alternator and the battery gets charging voltage.

 

[Veronica]

Hi, Veronica, and thanks for the advice. Does this kit change from the present power supply design to one where the alternator is powering all circuits through the fuse panel? I am so used to that design with Chevys that it makes a lot more sense than what was installed from the factory....or, am i better off to just unplug and replace and not go through any more agony than I really need to?

Thanks so much for answering!

David

Hi again. This kit is exactly like the original, except it isn't all hacked up, corroded and brittle like your original stuff is now. :gringreen The advantages to using as-original are that the original wiring diagrams can still be used to trouble-shoot problems down the road and, if you ask a somebody a question, they already know how the wiring is. The only thing that isn't on a fuse or circuit breaker is the ignition switch. How the power gets into the car is that one wire comes off of the hot side of the starter solenoid. It goes back behind the dash and splits into three wires. One goes to the fuse box for the emergency flashers, cigarette lighter and courtesy lights, one goes to the headlight switch, which has an internal circuit breaker, and the other goes straight to the ignition switch. It would not be a big deal to put an inline fuse on the wire feeding the ignition switch, or to add an auxiliary fuse box for all of the stuff that the ignition switch powers. There are all sorts of good ways to upgrade the wiring of these cars, but, it is a whole lot easier, and, for the reasons I mentioned earlier, better to start with all brand new as-original wiring. From there, one can go buck wild adding accessories and modernizing components, and still not be strictly on their own if problems arise.

 

[MPallock]

Wiring

Alloy Metals definitely the way to go. Just purchased the set for the engine bay of my 64 1/2. Literally plug ang play.

Mark

 

[Fstbkpieces]

Dana do you have a two or three speed heater blower? Bill

 

[Ivy66GT]

I would also recommend the original type wiring harnesses made by Alloy Metal Products for all the reasons given above.

If you have a convertible with the power top option then there is a big wire that runs directly from the battery to the top motor by way of the switch mounted on the bottom of the dash. That wire has either its own breaker ('65) or what would today be called a fusible link ('66, just 6" of not-so-large wire). Otherwise everything electrical in the car except the starter is powered through a single 12 ga wire that runs from the alternator/battery to the fuse panel/ignition switch. Several of the circuits may not run through the ignition switch but there are usually fuses and/or breakers involved.

I have never owned or worked on a Chevy but I don't think they did it much differently.

 

[silver69]

I use EZ Wiring universal kits as they have the mini blade fuses and up to twenty one circuits for new options(if desired)
It willl mean you have to cut and use the old plugs off the headlight and wiper switch but that is really easier than it may seem at first.
The kits use very high quality wire thatis labled every 6 inches or so.
The primary reason I like these harnesses are
1) they do not route all of the main power THROUGH the ignition witch but rather through relays.
2) Headlights are run through relays
3) Can be used with one wire/high amp alternators
4) Costs about $250-300.00
5) every single thing has its own clearly labled fuse, not one fuse for 3-4 things.
6) replaces ALL and I mean ALL the wiring in your classic.
When you take the ignition switch pigtail off you will understnad why I put item #1 as I did.
I know not all will agree but that is ok....this gives you feedback on an alternative product if you are still undecided/interested.

 

[mccance]

this is a common subject and both sides have there proponents. if you do a search you will find basically the same answers by the same people in multiple places lol.

I would just say that a bit more information is needed before you can really decide what you want. for ease of installation I am in total agreement the stock wiring harness is simple and no fuss for "stock components" if on the other hand you have or intend to have a lot of aftermarket equipment, such as a gauge cluster, aftermarket ac, steering column, power windows, 3rd brake light, engine, fan, efi, etc. and if you want to run the wires in a less conspicuous or just different way than stock, an aftermarket system like the one from american autowire is better. much more work, but better.

I have done both. currently I have my 65 and my daughters 67 both done with aaw harness for the reasons I mentioned.


here is my 65 thread.
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/classic-tech/679705-new-wiring-harness-etc-pics.html

and my daughters 67

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/classic-talk/304260-progress-1967-mustang-project.html

 

[Dana's 65]

Dana do you have a two or three speed heater blower? Bill

Neither at present. I removed the entire heater system, because a Vintage Air kit is going in soon.

 

[mccance]

I used the vintage air with the electronic control system in my daughters 67. it is a very easy install, the electronics only have basically 2 connections outside of the included wiring harness, the hot wire from the harness and the ground.

 

[Dana's 65]

Hi again. This kit is exactly like the original, except it isn't all hacked up, corroded and brittle like your original stuff is now. :gringreen The advantages to using as-original are that the original wiring diagrams can still be used to trouble-shoot problems down the road and, if you ask a somebody a question, they already know how the wiring is. The only thing that isn't on a fuse or circuit breaker is the ignition switch. How the power gets into the car is that one wire comes off of the hot side of the starter solenoid. It goes back behind the dash and splits into three wires. One goes to the fuse box for the emergency flashers, cigarette lighter and courtesy lights, one goes to the headlight switch, which has an internal circuit breaker, and the other goes straight to the ignition switch. It would not be a big deal to put an inline fuse on the wire feeding the ignition switch, or to add an auxiliary fuse box for all of the stuff that the ignition switch powers. There are all sorts of good ways to upgrade the wiring of these cars, but, it is a whole lot easier, and, for the reasons I mentioned earlier, better to start with all brand new as-original wiring. From there, one can go buck wild adding accessories and modernizing components, and still not be strictly on their own if problems arise.

Veronica, I replaced the red/blue wire all the way to the firewall connector, thinking a broken or frayed wire was my problem with the car not starting, but this didn't resolve the issue. The starter is new, I have purchased three new starter relays, my daughter has been driving the car and enjoying it, but went to a friend's house two weeks ago, and when she was leaving, the car would not start... no power to the starter, no dash lights ( idiot lights). Since then I have replaced the starter, replaced the starter relay, checked all the wiring, replaced the red/blue wire...no luck! When you turn the key to 'start', the starter relay on the fender makes a grinding noise, and it does this with all three relays. The battery is a new Optima Yellow Top so there is plenty of juice. I can't seem to get power to the starter to crank the engine, and I am at a loss as to what to try next. All battery cables are also new. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, David

 

[Veronica]

Hi again. Is this car an automatic or manual transmission? I seem to remember it being an automatic, but, that wouldn't be the first time I was remembering funny. If this is indeed an automatic, I would check at the firewall where the neutral safety switch wires go down to the transmission. It isn't strange to have those wires experience some kind of hardship and have one of them start shorting itself out on something, killing the power to the starter solenoid. The first thing I would do is take a length of wire that is stripped on each end and touch one end to the positive battery post and the other to the post on the starter solenoid marked 'S'. ( The poor girl's remote starter switch. ) If everything cranks like it's supposed to, I would unplug that red/blue wire from the solenoid, have somebody hold the key in the start position and check the end of that wire with a volt meter to see how much power was reaching the end of that wire. If that shows significantly less than you would expect, I would unplug the neutral safety switch wiring at the firewall and repeat the test with key in the start position. One of those red/blue wires should be showing power. If that looks like it's supposed to, that means that everything is ok from the switch to the firewall. If that is not ok, the problem is between the switch and the firewall. If that is where the problem seems to be, I would disconnect the plug from the back of the ignition switch and run a jumper with spade connectors on the ends from the slot in that plug where the yellow wire is to the slot where the red/blue wire is. If that starts cranking like crazy, you need a new ignition switch. If that does not crank like it's supposed the problem is between that connector and the firewall along that wire somewhere.

 

[Dana's 65]

Hi again. Is this car an automatic or manual transmission? I seem to remember it being an automatic, but, that wouldn't be the first time I was remembering funny. If this is indeed an automatic, I would check at the firewall where the neutral safety switch wires go down to the transmission. It isn't strange to have those wires experience some kind of hardship and have one of them start shorting itself out on something, killing the power to the starter solenoid. The first thing I would do is take a length of wire that is stripped on each end and touch one end to the positive battery post and the other to the post on the starter solenoid marked 'S'. ( The poor girl's remote starter switch. ) If everything cranks like it's supposed to, I would unplug that red/blue wire from the solenoid, have somebody hold the key in the start position and check the end of that wire with a volt meter to see how much power was reaching the end of that wire. If that shows significantly less than you would expect, I would unplug the neutral safety switch wiring at the firewall and repeat the test with key in the start position. One of those red/blue wires should be showing power. If that looks like it's supposed to, that means that everything is ok from the switch to the firewall. If that is not ok, the problem is between the switch and the firewall. If that is where the problem seems to be, I would disconnect the plug from the back of the ignition switch and run a jumper with spade connectors on the ends from the slot in that plug where the yellow wire is to the slot where the red/blue wire is. If that starts cranking like crazy, you need a new ignition switch. If that does not crank like it's supposed the problem is between that connector and the firewall along that wire somewhere.

It is an automatic. I will follow your check-out recommendations and let you know what I find...many thanks! So the grinding noise in the starter relaly doesn't really mean anything?

 

[Dana's 65]

Hi again. Is this car an automatic or manual transmission? I seem to remember it being an automatic, but, that wouldn't be the first time I was remembering funny. If this is indeed an automatic, I would check at the firewall where the neutral safety switch wires go down to the transmission. It isn't strange to have those wires experience some kind of hardship and have one of them start shorting itself out on something, killing the power to the starter solenoid. The first thing I would do is take a length of wire that is stripped on each end and touch one end to the positive battery post and the other to the post on the starter solenoid marked 'S'. ( The poor girl's remote starter switch. ) If everything cranks like it's supposed to, I would unplug that red/blue wire from the solenoid, have somebody hold the key in the start position and check the end of that wire with a volt meter to see how much power was reaching the end of that wire. If that shows significantly less than you would expect, I would unplug the neutral safety switch wiring at the firewall and repeat the test with key in the start position. One of those red/blue wires should be showing power. If that looks like it's supposed to, that means that everything is ok from the switch to the firewall. If that is not ok, the problem is between the switch and the firewall. If that is where the problem seems to be, I would disconnect the plug from the back of the ignition switch and run a jumper with spade connectors on the ends from the slot in that plug where the yellow wire is to the slot where the red/blue wire is. If that starts cranking like crazy, you need a new ignition switch. If that does not crank like it's supposed the problem is between that connector and the firewall along that wire somewhere.

I was looking through a couple of receipts where my daughter had some work done by shops, and I found that the electric fan ( 22 amp draw) was wired to run with ignition on, and they took the power source from the neutral safety switch without running through a HD relay...SO, that could well be the source of the issue. As I understand the wiring diagrams I have, the neutral safety switch power runs through the ignition switch also. Is there a better source for power to a relay than the ignition switch?

 

[Veronica]

Hi again. How that neutral safety switch works is power leaves the ignition switch through that red/blue, which goes through the firewall, down through the neutral safety switch, back up through the firewall again to the area behind the dash, where it then goes back through the firewall yet again, and then out to the starter solenoid. hen you look at those two red/blue wires that go to the neutral safety switch, that is actually two different sections of the same wire.

I would definitely get everything that is tapped into the neutral safety switch off of there, clean up whatever damage that has been done to the poor wires, and have those wires powering nothing but the neutral safety switch. Assuming that the power from the relay that is actually running the fan is coming straight from the battery when the relay is tripped, there isn't any reason why you couldn't run the wire that trips the relay straight from the back of the ignition switch.

 

[Dana's 65]

Hi again. How that neutral safety switch works is power leaves the ignition switch through that red/blue, which goes through the firewall, down through the neutral safety switch, back up through the firewall again to the area behind the dash, where it then goes back through the firewall yet again, and then out to the starter solenoid. hen you look at those two red/blue wires that go to the neutral safety switch, that is actually two different sections of the same wire.

I would definitely get everything that is tapped into the neutral safety switch off of there, clean up whatever damage that has been done to the poor wires, and have those wires powering nothing but the neutral safety switch. Assuming that the power from the relay that is actually running the fan is coming straight from the battery when the relay is tripped, there isn't any reason why you couldn't run the wire that trips the relay straight from the back of the ignition switch.

GREAT!! That's what I was thinking, but I sincerely appreciate your input before I jump into this thing again. I will let you know results. I also have some photos, but don't have a clue how to post them on this site. if you would like to see the car, send me an e-mail address...I do know how to attach them to e-mail, but that's about the limit of my internet abilities! Again, dear lady, I owe you for your advice and friendship...and perseverance in helping me once again... God Bless You!!!

David