I'm thinking it's the electric water pump that feeds the intercooler
I don't know how the HE system is run on the Roush setup, but HE/IC loops are very simple.I've also thought about this. Do you know if that HE will bolt right into the existing M90 setup on an 05-09 style mustang? I'm also thinking about doing the FR500S radiator and fan upgrade as well FR500S Radiator and Fan Upgrade: Daily Driven S197 Mustang. Which "pump" are you referring to?
Yeah, I generally stick to the Facebook forums now simply because traffic on these has plummeted, and the software is over a decade outdated.No wonder this website is slowing down , trying to add pics to a post is impossible. 15 minutes of trying to upload and no luck....
Monitor your IAT2s via the OBDII port. Your IAT connections should be unpinned from your MAF and wired to a temperature sensor in the intake manifold after the compressed intake air leaves the intercooler. Anything over ~128 degrees Fahrenheit is pulling timing on most 93 octane tunes, even sooner on lower octanes.
Your IATs will go up significantly when idle vs at speed and in boost/out of boost. With the 2011 GT500 HE and pump, I was seeing 90-105 degree IAT2s while cruising and up to 140 degrees at WOT and 13psi with a Department of Boost kit. Yours are likely much higher than that.
The factory Roush tune is SOFT. Email Lito and get a real tune. You'll need an SCT handheld, laptop, and wideband with an analog output. He charges $300 for an FI tune and it is well worth it over the canned Roush tune. His email is [email protected]
I am sure. IAT2s are of focus. On most 93 tunes, timing starts being pulled at around 128 degrees, but some tuners push it slightly higher depending on compression, pounds of boost, etc. It can generally go into the 150s before pulling on E85.You sure you don't mean IAT1? Seeing over 128 on a true IAT2 is pretty common, especially at idle when there is not much air moving through the intake. With my Kenne Bell, I can sit and let my car idle for 30 mins and see 130 degrees IAT2 on a 50 degree day. I was told by two different tuners and Kenne Bell that this was normal, and I have seen no evidence that the computer has ever pulled timing on my setup.
With an IAT1 measured closer to the air filter, I can see where 128+ is getting hot. But, a true IAT2 reading down closer to the intercooler will show much hotter, and I don't think most tunes pull timing that early. I realize that my IAT2s will come down when I goose the throttle and create air flow, but I have a hard time believing that I can reach 130 by letting the car idle and timing gets pulled as low as 128 when moving.
Right on. Charge air temperature is raised by 12.8-14.1 degrees Fahrenheit per pound of compression (boost). So take that IAT1, and say it's 100 degrees. At 10psi, you're compressing that IAT1 to an additional ~135 degrees, so your charge air hitting your IC is now around 230 degrees. Your IC has the responsibility of dropping this charge air to a safe temperature.I believe it is the air temperature entering the cylinders that is important, and this should be measured downstream of the intercooler. The incoming air gets hot when the supercharger compresses it, and the intercooler is supposed to cool it back down before it enters the cylinders. To work correctly the system should be pulling timing based on the temperature that is coming in to the cylinders, not some other temperature somewhere else in the system.
Kenne Belle has a reputation for running hot and not achieving their advertised HP numbers in the real world, so I'm not too surprised that they told you that. Or maybe when the car is moving the temps drop right down and that's why you don't feel it pulling timing.
135 is normal at idle, as I already stated due to under hood temperatures. IAT2 in closed loop is the concern.Lots of anti-Kenne Belle homerism going on here, and lots of "look how good my car is."
Regardless, I just got an Aeroforce gauge, and I only had it hooked up long enough to read IAT2 at idle before I disconnected it -- I'm in the process of installing multiple gauges at once to a center pod, so its still a work in process.
Just for my learning, that's when I called my tuner, another tuner I might end up using in the future, and Kenne Belle. Amongst other things, we talked about the IAT2 temps, and each told me 135 reading after idling for 40 minutes is normal partly because of where Kenne Belle places it's sensor, but mostly because the air is being heat soaked by the hot engine with no cool air being sucked in by the intake because the throttle plate is closed. As soon as you crack the throttle and cool air comes rushing in, the temp drops. Think about it ---- you could have the largest intercooler, HE, and pump in the world, but if there is no air flow going over the intercooler, it's not going to help much. Kenne Bell also noted that temps will be higher at steady cruise because of the relatively closed throttle plate.
I originally piped in because I had a hard time believing 135 was normal at idle (as I had just been told), but then the computer would pull timing at 128+ (as posted here). Perhaps both are accurate . . . timing would be pulled at 128+ if at open throttle, but the temp drops quickly and significantly as soon as you give it gas so you don't actually see that temp when moving.
I am confident that my SC and cooling are operating as designed -- again, it was just dyno tuned less than 500 miles ago with no evidence of timing being pulled and with the #s coming in where I expected to see them. Soon as I get the entire gauge pod hooked up, I'll do some wide open runs and let you know what the "Crazy over the top Kenne Bell" temps are
Roush tends to make some fantastic stuff. I'm sure that was a fun ride. I apologize if I rubbed you wrong, and I hope you enjoy the car. Just know that you're likely never running full timing. At 450whp (stock bottom end capabilities), you may be able to see full timing with an adequate HE and pump. I'd also jump to an 8 rib belt if you haven't already, as KBs chew belts for some reason. If you need help with an 8 rib conversion, let me know, as I've done one on mine.Sorry about your past experience with KB. To be honest, I bought this car with the KB on it, and this is my first from them. I am still learning all the pros and cons. Have had a Roush SC in the past (on a 5.0), and I liked it a lot.
I was just trying to clarify the intent of "IAT" relative to pulling timing, intercooler, etc. in case the OP was getting confused; and it seemed like maybe KB was throwing up a smoke screen that was confusing things.
Okay, to finish hijacking this thread, I figured I'd report back as promised now that I have the gauges complete. Bottom line, I do believe you are probably right that the KBs run a little hot. Whether it is material or unusual during "real world" driving is debatable.Roush tends to make some fantastic stuff. I'm sure that was a fun ride. I apologize if I rubbed you wrong, and I hope you enjoy the car. Just know that you're likely never running full timing. At 450whp (stock bottom end capabilities), you may be able to see full timing with an adequate HE and pump. I'd also jump to an 8 rib belt if you haven't already, as KBs chew belts for some reason. If you need help with an 8 rib conversion, let me know, as I've done one on mine.
No, I do not like KB due to my experiences with them and their design, as an engineer. But I do hope yours serves you well and that you enjoy your car