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Discussion Starter #1
Those of you with either Roush Stangs or just the suspension kits, how would you rate the handling and the ride?

Thanks in advance. :thumbsup
 

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Discussion Starter #2
no Roush folks here? :confused:
 

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Roush suspension in outstanding. Very controlled ride and handling, not lean whatsoever. Very forgiving on rough roads and bumps.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I am assuming that means you have it on your car, or is this just something you heard from someone who doea?

Just to trying to qualify your answer.

Thanks much! :thumbsup


nikfeedme said:
Roush suspension in outstanding. Very controlled ride and handling, not lean whatsoever. Very forgiving on rough roads and bumps.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well - I for one would not bounce you!!!

Oh man - that was exactly the information I was looking for. I am waiting for my dealer to call back to confirm my appointment next week and then it goes on. WAY COOL!!! :eyepoppin

Thanks for the help. :happyhapp


nonsensez9 said:
Hope I don't get bounced for directing to another forum... but anyways, here's a couple links to peruse at your leisure.

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=41844

http://www.fnsweet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25276
 

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jiobao said:
Well - I for one would not bounce you!!!

Oh man - that was exactly the information I was looking for. I am waiting for my dealer to call back to confirm my appointment next week and then it goes on. WAY COOL!!! :eyepoppin

Thanks for the help. :happyhapp
glad to be of service. can't wait to hear your review :laughlitt
 

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jiobao said:
I am assuming that means you have it on your car, or is this just something you heard from someone who doea?

Just to trying to qualify your answer.

Thanks much! :thumbsup
Actually I have in on my car, along with the roushcharger. 2005 vert.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
coolness...:cool:

Thanks. That seems to be consistent with what everyone else is saying about the kit.


nikfeedme said:
Actually I have in on my car, along with the roushcharger. 2005 vert.
 

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HeiMa said:
Oh man - that was exactly the information I was looking for. I am waiting for my dealer to call back to confirm my appointment next week and then it goes on.
get this mod done?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

It was supposed to be done yesterday. The dealer is saying that Fed Ex has not delivered it yet - I don't know if it really is Fed Ex or if the dealer is turning out to me like most of the rest - full of crap! :so

Perhaps Monday now - that's their last chance as I am leaving town on Weds.

But thanks for asking - once I get it done, I'll post a review.


nonsensez9 said:
get this mod done?
 

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Hi HeiMa,

This is my first new American car, my previous cars were all German performance cars (that I modified, often extensively to improve performance), from VW, BMW and Porsche. I've restored a few classic Mustangs including a '66 2+2 (that I loved but was scared of) and a '70 Boss 302 (a REAL screamer), but these were terrible handling and braking cars compared to my 16V motored early Rabbit/GTI or blown Corrado or 911 Carrera (G body), and 914-6 (amazingly balanced). So please understand where I'm comming from, these cars were all excellent sports cars with sophisticated ride and handling and excellent brakes.

I've driven the '05 Saleen S281 (20"'s), '05 Stage 2 Roush Mustang (18"'s), and a very stealthy '05 GT with the FULL (and I mean the WHOLE suspension catalog including 18" Steeda wheels), Steeda suspension. All of the cars were N/A with minor bolt-ons, CAI w/tuner, axle backs and one had short tube headers. Of the three '05 GTs I had th pleasure to drive the Steeda was the most well setup and most natural handling. It felt the most dynamic and most responsive but it also had Tokico D-Spec struts and rear shocks adjusted to the "kill" setting so it rode the most firmly of the three. The Saleen was the also a lot of fun and rode well which surprised me actualy considering the huge 20" wheel and tires it had but you could feel the weight of the big wheels and tires on rough pavement. The Roush car was disapointing to drive, this was a Roush Stage 2 level car but the suspension felt not fully developed and in need of some tunning work on the shock valving. I also felt that the bars were not sized right on this car, it pushed too much even at slow speeds.

After driving the Saleen S281 and Roush Stage 2 Mustang I bought a nice basic 5-speed GT. I knew that I could build a lighter, better handling and performing car than these factory offerings for much less money. I'm also a student of Colin Chapman whose first rule of race car design was "simplify then add lightness." The cars with body kits and the like are simply not for me because they break the first rule and IMO mess up the relatively clean lines of the '05 GTs. YMMV.

I drove the Steeda car later after I had done my own Eibach/Tokico D-Spec modifications. I had been adding engine bits until the pieces to build a real suspension for the car came out to minimize the fabrication I would need to get the GT to work right. The main issues were the lack of good third party adjustable struts and shocks and the bits to correct the suspension geometry and recenter the rear axle after the lowering springs went in. When the Tokico D-Specs were rumored I got busy pounding everyone I could and eventually through my connections at JBA Racing got an early set of D-Specs marked "sample" back in late July early August and have been very happy with my suspension setup as listed in my sig.

One thing to realize is that what and how you use a car for is very important as is your choice of tires. One of my 911's started out as a great street car but I went over the edge and it became an autocross monster, I basically hated to drive the car on the street once I had replaced all the suspension with solid heim joints and solid engine mounts. I had to sell it and buy another 911 to get back to the happy place that I started out at.

My '05 GT is my daily driver and with this in mind I'm on the stock 17" wheels and Pirelli Nero tires, which IMO are very good tires with reliable grip (not the most grip but you can use ALL of it all of the time very easily), and very predicable breakaway characteristics. These good characteristics allow me to play the steering with throttle in the corners which I find very entetaining. This would go away with the largest, grippiest tires out there and I am loath to give up this much fun for just a little bit more ultimate grip SOME of the time.

My car has some key suspension location enhancments, Steeda G-Trac brace, Steeda adjustable panhard bar and HD panhard bar brace along with the Eibach Pro Kit springs and Tokico D-Spec dampers. I don't see the need to install larger anti-roll bars because the Eibach Pro Kit springs in conjunction with Steeda's front lower control arm relocation kit precludes the need for them on a street car. The car has a very supple ride, corners dead flat and is very well balanced in high speed turns (many of the large fast connector ramps here in SoCal have exit speeds of 90-100MPH and you can hit 130MPH on one before having to slow down to 70 to merge), with almost no push in low speed corners. The front is setup with 2 degress negative camber this shortens tire wear but who cares? These tires are $100 each not $250 each! If I had 275 low profile "R" spec tires larger anti-roll bars might be needed but I doubt there are any real world street tires (you know tires that you can drive in the rain), that would make me feel the need for anti-roll bars on the car. My car rides very well and is very tossable and fun as it is and with a few other minor bits should be just about right. Ultimately slightly larger (255s), sticky 18" tires may find their way on to my car but at the moment I'm having too much fun with it to change it much unless I add a blower to compensate.

All I'm saying is to consider how you are going to use the car and modify appropriately, don't go too far and be unhappy with your results.

HTH


HeiMa said:
Those of you with either Roush Stangs or just the suspension kits, how would you rate the handling and the ride?


Thanks in advance. :thumbsup
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
SportsPix

Well, that is certainly the most thorough write-up I have seen so far. I had actually been considering the exact setup of Eibach Pro springs and the Tokikos and then ran across the Roush kit and heard plenty of good things about it.

I had alread planned on quite a few of the other Steeda items you mentioned as well after installing the kit, adjustable panhard bar, etc.

I see you're in South Pasadena - about an hour away from me depending on traffic. Where did you get your work done or did you do it yourself?

I am mainly looking for a some improvement in the handling but more for traction and figure I am going to give up a bit on the ride but I am not in that much need of such great handling that my teeth rattle out. Getting the car's butt out of the air is the first step but I know there is still more to do (LCAs etc.) Am I expecting to go at it with an M3 on a mountain road and win? - uh, no. :winks

I'll give it some thought and really appreciate your information.

:thumbsup
SportsPix said:
Hi HeiMa,

This is my first new American car, my previous cars were all German performance cars (that I modified, often extensively to improve performance), from VW, BMW and Porsche. I've restored a few classic Mustangs including a '66 2+2 (that I loved but was scared of) and a '70 Boss 302 (a REAL screamer), but these were terrible handling and braking cars compared to my 16V motored early Rabbit/GTI or blown Corrado or 911 Carrera (G body), and 914-6 (amazingly balanced). So please understand where I'm comming from, these cars were all excellent sports cars with sophisticated ride and handling and excellent brakes.

I've driven the '05 Saleen S281 (20"'s), '05 Stage 2 Roush Mustang (18"'s), and a very stealthy '05 GT with the FULL (and I mean the WHOLE suspension catalog including 18" Steeda wheels), Steeda suspension. All of the cars were N/A with minor bolt-ons, CAI w/tuner, axle backs and one had short tube headers. Of the three '05 GTs I had th pleasure to drive the Steeda was the most well setup and most natural handling. It felt the most dynamic and most responsive but it also had Tokico D-Spec struts and rear shocks adjusted to the "kill" setting so it rode the most firmly of the three. The Saleen was the also a lot of fun and rode well which surprised me actualy considering the huge 20" wheel and tires it had but you could feel the weight of the big wheels and tires on rough pavement. The Roush car was disapointing to drive, this was a Roush Stage 2 level car but the suspension felt not fully developed and in need of some tunning work on the shock valving. I also felt that the bars were not sized right on this car, it pushed too much even at slow speeds.

After driving the Saleen S281 and Roush Stage 2 Mustang I bought a nice basic 5-speed GT. I knew that I could build a lighter, better handling and performing car than these factory offerings for much less money. I'm also a student of Colin Chapman whose first rule of race car design was "simplify then add lightness." The cars with body kits and the like are simply not for me because they break the first rule and IMO mess up the relatively clean lines of the '05 GTs. YMMV.

I drove the Steeda car later after I had done my own Eibach/Tokico D-Spec modifications. I had been adding engine bits until the pieces to build a real suspension for the car came out to minimize the fabrication I would need to get the GT to work right. The main issues were the lack of good third party adjustable struts and shocks and the bits to correct the suspension geometry and recenter the rear axle after the lowering springs went in. When the Tokico D-Specs were rumored I got busy pounding everyone I could and eventually through my connections at JBA Racing got an early set of D-Specs marked "sample" back in late July early August and have been very happy with my suspension setup as listed in my sig.

One thing to realize is that what and how you use a car for is very important as is your choice of tires. One of my 911's started out as a great street car but I went over the edge and it became an autocross monster, I basically hated to drive the car on the street once I had replaced all the suspension with solid heim joints and solid engine mounts. I had to sell it and buy another 911 to get back to the happy place that I started out at.

My '05 GT is my daily driver and with this in mind I'm on the stock 17" wheels and Pirelli Nero tires, which IMO are very good tires with reliable grip (not the most grip but you can use ALL of it all of the time very easily), and very predicable breakaway characteristics. These good characteristics allow me to play the steering with throttle in the corners which I find very entetaining. This would go away with the largest, grippiest tires out there and I am loath to give up this much fun for just a little bit more ultimate grip SOME of the time.

My car has some key suspension location enhancments, Steeda G-Trac brace, Steeda adjustable panhard bar and HD panhard bar brace along with the Eibach Pro Kit springs and Tokico D-Spec dampers. I don't see the need to install larger anti-roll bars because the Eibach Pro Kit springs in conjunction with Steeda's front lower control arm relocation kit precludes the need for them on a street car. The car has a very supple ride, corners dead flat and is very well balanced in high speed turns (many of the large fast connector ramps here in SoCal have exit speeds of 90-100MPH and you can hit 130MPH on one before having to slow down to 70 to merge), with almost no push in low speed corners. The front is setup with 2 degress negative camber this shortens tire wear but who cares? These tires are $100 each not $250 each! If I had 275 low profile "R" spec tires larger anti-roll bars might be needed but I doubt there are any real world street tires (you know tires that you can drive in the rain), that would make me feel the need for anti-roll bars on the car. My car rides very well and is very tossable and fun as it is and with a few other minor bits should be just about right. Ultimately slightly larger (255s), sticky 18" tires may find their way on to my car but at the moment I'm having too much fun with it to change it much unless I add a blower to compensate.

All I'm saying is to consider how you are going to use the car and modify appropriately, don't go too far and be unhappy with your results.

HTH
 

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Hi HiMa,

If you are not going to get crazy but still want great handling IMO this is all you need for the basic setup.

1) Accurate tire gauge, this is a MUST have item. Expect to spend $50-$100 for a good one, digitals are good as are dampened conventional dial types.

2) Springs, I picked Eibach based on prior experience with them on the Porsches and VWs. I think that if you don't want to lower the car as much as the Eibach Pro Kit the Steeda or H&R sport springs are a good choice.

3) Performance struts and dampers, adjustable dampening is very important to getting good match to the springs. This means Tokico D-Spec as there are no other adjustable dampers at the moment from a reputable maker. Pass on adjustable ride height coilovers, they're a marketing gimick and offer no performance advantage.

4) Adjustable panhard bar to recenter the rear axle once you get the springs in. I also think that a good stiff HD panhard bar brace is imporant in the long term or the chassis will flex and then fail at the panhard bar pick-up point. Ford went too light here. This is important if you want your car to turn equally well left and right with minimal difference in feel. I like Steeda stuff but BMR and others make good stuff too.

All the basics are covered above, everything else being sold is used to improve location of the suspension components and optimize geometry lost when the car is lowered. Improved location improves grip, feel and handling. Improved location of the chassis side pick-up points improves reliability of the chassis and feel under cornering loads.

I had JBA install many of the parts but I've R&R'd most of them in the interest optimizing everything and confirming torque on the bolts. I installed the front struts, rear dampers and adjusted the rear panhard bar to center the rear axle. I've also installed the electric water pump and am going to install a LFP 62mm throttle body and Steeda CMCP. My garage is fully equiped, hand and air tools, no lift though I do have an all aluminium racing jack LOL. I did suspension and electronic fuel injection development on VW's for several years for a major manufacture of German auto performance parts so I'm happy working under the car. A lot of it's even metric!

Hope this helps you!



HeiMa said:
SportsPix

Well, that is certainly the most thorough write-up I have seen so far. I had actually been considering the exact setup of Eibach Pro springs and the Tokikos and then ran across the Roush kit and heard plenty of good things about it.

I had alread planned on the other items you mentioned as well after installing the kit, adjustable panhard bar, etc.

I see you're in South Pasadena - about an hour away from me depending on traffic. Where did you get your work done or did you do it yourself?

I am mainly looking for a some improvement in the handling but more for traction and figure I am going to give up a bit on the ride but I am not in that much need of such great handling that my teeth rattle out. Getting the car's butt out of the air is the first step but I know there is still more to do (LCAs etc.) Am I expecting to go at it with an M3 on a mountain road and win? - uh, no. :winks

I'll give it some thought and really appreciate your information.

:thumbsup
 

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Discussion Starter #15
SportsPix,

This sounds a lot like the ideas I was originally toying with but then went for the "convenience" of the package approach - knowing I would still need a few items afterward. However, since the dealer is already three days behind when the work was supposed to be done, and did not return my calls yesterday, I'll probably just cancel their sorry a$$s and take the approach you mention.

I enjoy wokring on it too, and so far I have done all of the the mods except for the supsenion myself. I just do not have the time for "big" items such as suspension. Heck - it took me nearly three months just to get the time to do the relatively minor things you see in my sig.

Thanks again!! :worship


SportsPix said:
Hi HiMa,

If you are not going to get crazy but still want great handling IMO this is all you need for the basic setup.

1) Accurate tire gauge, this is a MUST have item. Expect to spend $50-$100 for a good one, digitals are good as are dampened conventional dial types.

2) Springs, I picked Eibach based on prior experience with them on the Porsches and VWs. I think that if you don't want to lower the car as much as the Eibach Pro Kit the Steeda or H&R sport springs are a good choice.

3) Performance struts and dampers, adjustable dampening is very important to getting good match to the springs. This means Tokico D-Spec as there are no other adjustable dampers at the moment from a reputable maker. Pass on adjustable ride height coilovers, they're a marketing gimick and offer no performance advantage.

4) Adjustable panhard bar to recenter the rear axle once you get the springs in. I also think that a good stiff HD panhard bar brace is imporant in the long term or the chassis will flex and then fail at the panhard bar pick-up point. Ford went too light here. This is important if you want your car to turn equally well left and right with minimal difference in feel. I like Steeda stuff but BMR and others make good stuff too.

All the basics are covered above, everything else being sold is used to improve location of the suspension components and optimize geometry lost when the car is lowered. Improved location improves grip, feel and handling. Improved location of the chassis side pick-up points improves reliability of the chassis and feel under cornering loads.

I had JBA install many of the parts but I've R&R'd most of them in the interest optimizing everything and confirming torque on the bolts. I installed the front struts, rear dampers and adjusted the rear panhard bar to center the rear axle. I've also installed the electric water pump and am going to install a LFP 62mm throttle body and Steeda CMCP. My garage is fully equiped, hand and air tools, no lift though I do have an all aluminium racing jack LOL. I did suspension and electronic fuel injection development on VW's for several years for a major manufacture of German auto performance parts so I'm happy working under the car. A lot of it's even metric!

Hope this helps you!
 

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I want do do what you did with the Eibach Pro Kit, I was told that since they only lower the car 1inch, that other that re-alignment, no other mods necessary.. Is that BS??
 

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Hi techiegt05,

Yes, it's B.S. even the Pro-Kit lowers the car 1.4" in front and 1.7" in the back measured at the wheel wells. The SportLine kit REALLY slams the car, over 2" in back!

I measured the car before and after from tape marks I made on the car to my perfetly flat garage floor. Bounced the car, measured and bounced and measured six times, averaged the measurements. I also measured the rear axle's lateral position and the static wheelbase before and after installing the Pro-Kit springs and again after I installed the Tokico D-Spec struts and dampers using the same surface and old school plumb line string method. My rear axle was shifted to the left .78" and the wheelbase shrank .2". The axle shift was not a small amount and it was obvious to the naked eye and made the car crab down the road. I had also installed an adjustable Steeda Panhard bar so I carefully recentered the axle and my car no longer crabs and feels the same turning left and right again.

Whoever told you that it doesn't matter does not know anything about Panhard bar located solid axles and simple geometry. Go to a shop that knows what you are talking about when you say "adjustable Panhard bar" and has the old school experience to recenter your axle if you cannot do it yourself. You could also try to find a local car club with someone who knows how to adjust a lowered car with a Panhard bar.

Hope This Helps!


techiegt05 said:
I want do do what you did with the Eibach Pro Kit, I was told that since they only lower the car 1inch, that other that re-alignment, no other mods necessary.. Is that BS??
 

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lowering springs

Awesome,

Thanks man! I figured as much. So if I want to just get the Eibach pro kit springs, what else do I "REALLY" need; other than an adjustable Panhard bar??

BTW, thanks for the info.
 

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Hi techiegt05,

Well really need is a very gray area. To just lower your car, get the car to go straight, feel the same when turning right or left, not wear out the tires wierd and gain some measurable handling improvements all you really need are the springs and adjustable Panhard bar. This is what most people who like the lowered look do but don't drive hard enough to notice how much they are leaving on the table in terms of driving pleasure and actual cornering grip and handling (cough, rice).

BUT, to really take advantage of the increased spring rate, lower CG and effectively control your new stiffer springs for maximum body and wheel control you will need a set of adjustable struts and rear dampers. Past that like I said the rest is about adding chassis reliability, handling finesse grip and driver confidance that the car is going to do what he needs it to do.

Cheers


techiegt05 said:
Awesome,

Thanks man! I figured as much. So if I want to just get the Eibach pro kit springs, what else do I "REALLY" need; other than an adjustable Panhard bar??

BTW, thanks for the info.
 

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Roush suspension no good

I wish I would have seen this post before you bought the roush suspension kit. Don't take my word for it, here's an easy way to see how crappy it is -

Go to your local dealer who has a couple stage 2 roush's on the lot. Look underneath the car and check out the so-called 'suspension package'. Then go look underneath a regular GT? Look familiar??? It's just painted blue isn't it? It's the same darn crappy control arms and springs just painted blue? WTF is roush thinking?? About as performance enhancing as their crappy s/c. BTW - Roush ran 13.40's with their crappy roots blower on their own car last month in R&T - how could they even let those numbers get printed? The only think that looks any better is the shocks and no way as good as the tokico's.

If your looking for street/road use, you can't beat the steeda set-up. If your looking for drag, the steeda won't hold up - I've broken the lower and upper contol arms on the steeda twice. I still have steeda race up front but went with a full menco race suspension in the rear. I'm not bagging on steeda cause i don't think their meant to stand up to the abuse I give, but forstreet, light drag, and road - I think the steeda has the best bang for your buck. IMO
 
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