[Rhetrax]

I've seen all the shaker systems hook into what looks like the stock airbox and air intake, which makes sense so the air can flow directly into the intake system... I was thinking of getting a shaker system, seems a good addition to an intake system that isn't ready for any forced induction yet (albeit you can call a shaker system FI, but in this case I'm not).

But, for one thing, does it actually work? I'm not looking for supercharger or turbocharger performance boosts, but maybe 15-20HP at the crank at higher speeds. Would it accomplish that much? And second, I have an aftermarket CAI with a heatshield. Instead of settling for the stock intake, couldn't I just cut the hole that the shaker hose would attach to in the normal airbox on the heat shield and get some custom piping if it doesn't fit at first and link them together? I'm aware there would be some leakage and it would not have slight pressure like in the semi-closed airbox, but I'm just looking for cooler charge temperatures rather than boost from the incoming air. Would that work in any way? Or do you HAVE to use the original closed airbox?

Thanks for any input guys!

 

[ski]

You mean like the ones in these pics?
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2526597-post3.html

You will get only a slight hp gain during hot weather, because the inlet air will be cooler than 100 F (assuming the outside ambient air temp is less than 100 F) when the car is at a standstill with the engine idling for a period of time, like at a stoplight, and that prevents the ECU from pulling timing.

 

[Rhetrax]

You mean like the ones in these pics?
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2526597-post3.html

You will get only a slight hp gain during hot weather, because the inlet air will be cooler than 100 F (assuming the outside ambient air temp is less than 100 F) when the car is at a standstill with the engine idling for a period of time, like at a stoplight, and that prevents the ECU from pulling timing.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about, thank you! So there are no issues with setting it up that way? And what did you mean with the timing pulling part of your post? What does "pulling timing" mean? Sorry for the questions, but I'm not too handy on timing and such. From what I understand, the ECU reads the IAC temperature from the MAF and adjusts the A/F ratio to match it. So that way, as the IAC gets colder or denser from higher speeds, the engine would adjust for it, thus creating slightly higher HP/TQ until I slow down. Would that be right, or is there a problem in my reasoning? I see on that post you linked to that there seem to be no problems setting the system up in this way, would that also be alright?

 

[ski]

Timing refers to the relation of the piston's position inside the cylinder when the spark plug fires. For example, 2 deg BTDC(before top dead center) means the plug fires when the angle of the crankshaft lobe where the piston's connecting rod is attached is 2 deg away from vertical(0 deg). That means the spark occurs when the piston is slightly below its highest possible position, or TDC(top dead center). The reason the spark occurs slightly before the piston is at TDC is because the piston is moving very fast, and it takes time(albeit extremely short) for the fuel to detonate after the spark occurs.
Pulling timing means the timing of the spark in relation to the position of the piston is readjusted so that the plug fires later than what's specified, e.g., TDC instead of 2 deg BTDC. This helps to prevent the engine from pinging, which causes abnormally high pressure that can damage the engine.
Pinging can occur when the IAT is too high. In the case of Ford's design parameters, an IAT of 100 F and higher can cause pinging.

The inlet air is cooler at higher speeds with the stock air intake, or a standard CAI, as compared to when the car is at a standstill. But it does not get denser. The only ways it gets denser is when the ambient air temperature decreases, or the vehicle travels at very high speeds(>150 mph) with an air inlet opening that's beyond the air stream's boundary layer.

There are no problems with the 2 configurations in the link according to the poster. However, you can do a search if you want more input on setups like the ones shown.

 

[Rhetrax]

Timing refers to the relation of the piston's position inside the cylinder when the spark plug fires. For example, 2 deg BTDC(before top dead center) means the plug fires when the angle of the crankshaft lobe where the piston's connecting rod is attached is 2 deg away from vertical(0 deg). That means the spark occurs when the piston is slightly below its highest possible position, or TDC(top dead center). The reason the spark occurs slightly before the piston is at TDC is because the piston is moving very fast, and it takes time(albeit extremely short) for the fuel to detonate after the spark occurs.
Pulling timing means the timing of the spark in relation to the position of the piston is readjusted so that the plug fires later than what's specified, e.g., TDC instead of 2 deg BTDC. This helps to prevent the engine from pinging, which causes abnormally high pressure that can damage the engine.
Pinging can occur when the IAT is too high. In the case of Ford's design parameters, an IAT of 100 F and higher can cause pinging.

The inlet air is cooler at higher speeds with the stock air intake, or a standard CAI, as compared to when the car is at a standstill. But it does not get denser. The only ways it gets denser is when the ambient air temperature decreases, or the vehicle travels at very high speeds(>150 mph) with an air inlet opening that's beyond the air stream's boundary layer.

There are no problems with the 2 configurations in the link according to the poster. However, you can do a search if you want more input on setups like the ones shown.

So pulling timing is not a bad thing and won't damage the engine? It's something that is done to prevent damage? And by your experience, a shaker system does not actually give any real advantage besides aesthetics?
But wouldn't outside ambient air, even in hot weather, still be cooler than air under the hood which has been exposed to the high operating temperatures of a normal engine? I was thinking a shaker system would take in more outside ambient air from outside the car itself rather than under the hood, where it is inherently hotter.
Any ideas?

 

[Mr.02]

Go for it....I did.:bigthumbsup

 

[Mr.02]

I made my own ram air system.

 

[Rhetrax]

I made my own ram air system.

Did you see any performance gain from a stop or at higher speeds?

 

[Mr.02]

My car needs a tune right now after a cam swap it doesn't idle after it's warmed up, but at stop no difference but at higher speeds a noticeable difference but nothing big.

 

[Mr.02]

if you notice they don't talk about hp gains only looks it will give to your car.

 

[ski]

So pulling timing is not a bad thing and won't damage the engine? It's something that is done to prevent damage?

That's correct.

And by your experience, a shaker system does not actually give any real advantage besides aesthetics?
But wouldn't outside ambient air, even in hot weather, still be cooler than air under the hood which has been exposed to the high operating temperatures of a normal engine? I was thinking a shaker system would take in more outside ambient air from outside the car itself rather than under the hood, where it is inherently hotter.
Any ideas?

I never said the only advantage of a shaker system is aesthetics.
However, apparently my explanation was unclear in my 1st post.

I was trying to say that the engine will produce more hp with a shaker system than with the stock air intake, or with a standard CAI, when you floor the gas pedal from a standstill after the engine has been idling for a period of time in hot weather, because a shaker system immediately starts inhaling cooler air which prevents the ECU from pulling timing and thus reducing power.
But once the car gets up to speed for a minute or so the shaker system no longer has an advantage over the stock air intake/standard CAI WRT. That's because the stock air intake/standard CAI starts inhaling cooler outside air due to the forward motion of the car. And the faster the car travels after being at a standstill, the quicker the stock air intake/standard CAI pulls in cooler outside air. I know for a fact this happens, because I did data logging on the CAI on my GT.
Also, the above does not apply starting with either the 09 or 10 GT, because the stock air intake was redesigned to pull in outside air even when the car is at a standstill.

 

[Rhetrax]

That's correct.

I never said the only advantage of a shaker system is aesthetics.
However, apparently my explanation was unclear in my 1st post.

I was trying to say that the engine will produce more hp with a shaker system than with the stock air intake, or with a standard CAI, when you floor the gas pedal from a standstill after the engine has been idling for a period of time in hot weather, because a shaker system immediately starts inhaling cooler air which prevents the ECU from pulling timing and thus reducing power.
But once the car gets up to speed for a minute or so the shaker system no longer has an advantage over the stock air intake/standard CAI WRT. That's because the stock air intake/standard CAI starts inhaling cooler outside air due to the forward motion of the car. And the faster the car travels after being at a standstill, the quicker the stock air intake/standard CAI pulls in cooler outside air. I know for a fact this happens, because I did data logging on the CAI on my GT.
Also, the above does not apply starting with either the 09 or 10 GT, because the stock air intake was redesigned to pull in outside air even when the car is at a standstill.

Ooooh okay that makes sense, thank you. Would any of you guys say it's a noticeable difference with the system than without, or is it not worth 900 bucks with an install from a shop?

 

[Mr.02]

I bought a Black Widow Spyder hood from Cruizin Concepts did the mods myself to make it a ram air,and from my personal experience I have more power when i'm moving than at a stand still,either way you're not going to gain a lot of hp.

 

[Rhetrax]

I bought a Black Widow Spyder hood from Cruizin Concepts did the mods myself to make it a ram air,and from my personal experience I have more power when i'm moving than at a stand still,either way you're not going to gain a lot of hp.

Yeah I know it's not going to be major power gains, but is it at least 25-30 rwhp?

 

[mr-proper]

nope maybe 10hp at 80mph+!
i own a 2004 MACH 1:smoke::winks

 

[Rhetrax]

nope maybe 10hp at 80mph+!
i own a 2004 MACH 1:smoke::winks

Is that really it? Would an aftermarket system on an 07 do any different?

 

[whitey]

i have the shaker on my 08gt and you will not notice any hp gain, but it sure looks cool. go to autozone and they sell a flex tube that fits perfect to tie into your cold air shield. just drill a hole with hole saw same size as pipe and the and one end is flared and other slips over the shaker end. i have the jlt and took some black rvt silicone and sealed around pipe to set in place. found a deal on new shaker for around $675 and installed myself, very easy mod. lots of pictures for installation, just measure 3 times and get it right. use a cloth sewing tape for best results and won't scratch your paint.

 

[ski]

Gotta respectfully disagree.
The OP's car will have more performance with a shaker when it accelerates after idling for a long period(typically > 1 min.) in hot weather, because the ECU will not pull any timing due to the engine sucking in cooler outside air, instead of the hotter(120-140 F) underhood air.

 

[Rhetrax]

Gotta respectfully disagree.
The OP's car will have more performance with a shaker when it accelerates after idling for a long period(typically > 1 min.) in hot weather, because the ECU will not pull any timing due to the engine sucking in cooler outside air, instead of the hotter(120-140 F) underhood air.

See that's what I was thinking as well. Does anyone know of any factual data gathered on this subject that we can reference? Like a dyno pull or data log?

 

[ski]

You probably will not find any dyno test results for this situation mainly because the runs are normally performed with the hood open and a fan blowing air into the engine compartment.

However, data log results from my 05 GT showed the underhood temps increased to over 100 F in less than a minute at an idling standstill with the engine fully warmed up and an 82 F ambient temp. And if the ECU pulls timing when the UH temp exceeds 100 F, then the car's performance will decrease.
In addition, my car felt like it accelerated slightly slower after allowing the underhood temps to reach 120 F than it did with underhood temps near ambient(82 F). But that was strictly a SOTP test result.