Ford Mustang Forum banner

41 - 60 of 99 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,720 Posts
What kind of dyno was that? dyno results are very variable, those numbers sound maybe a little low, was it a Mustang dyno?

The ram-air affect with the shaker hood theoretically might add a little more air flow and a little HP, but it should be OK tune-wise because the EFI system will automatically adjust for the air that is coming in, as long as it has good readings on how much air is coming in. The tune is important with the CAI to "recalibrate" the MAF sensor for the larger intake tube.

I'm guessing you might pick up another 20 HP with the CAI and tune.
Those numbers look low? Weren’t they rated at 300 at the motor? These guys got 250 or so stock. stock gt rwhp? - MustangForums.com

The “ram air” is somewhat of a myrrh, or I think you have to be doing well into triple digit speed to pick up a percent of a horsepower.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,666 Posts
Assuming a manual tranny, I'll say 323rwhp @ 6200rpm & 319rwtq @ 4300rpm after all the mods are installed with tune.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,352 Posts
Those numbers look low? Weren’t they rated at 300 at the motor? These guys got 250 or so stock. stock gt rwhp? - MustangForums.com
I kinda lost track of what mods the OP has installed and what is future plans . . . if only cams and everything else stock, then I guess 280 at the rear wheels is probably about right . . . they say bone stock is usually around 260-270 on a dynojet dyno
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Discussion Starter #44
Yes, I do have a manual transmission.

As far as what kind of dyno, per the shop's website it was DynoJet 224X dynometer. I am not convinced the guy spent much time dialing it in to be honest.

I am having the headers, h-pipe, and CAI installed at a different, bigger shop. I will post my numbers when the job is done next month. I will also ask them if they do anything at all to compensate for the shaker hood scoop while tuning.

Thanks to all for the input.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,720 Posts
Yes, I do have a manual transmission.

As far as what kind of dyno, per the shop's website it was DynoJet 224X dynometer. I am not convinced the guy spent much time dialing it in to be honest.

I am having the headers, h-pipe, and CAI installed at a different, bigger shop. I will post my numbers when the job is done next month. I will also ask them if they do anything at all to compensate for the shaker hood scoop while tuning.

Thanks to all for the input.
I imagine the big fan is what you’re going to get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,352 Posts
I really wouldn't worry about the "ram air" affect, it is minimal at best . . . car might make a horse or two more going down the road versus sitting on the dyno, maybe if you're lucky

But I did see a Road Kill episode where they actually did use leaf blowers for forced induction and it worked! (sort of. . . )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Discussion Starter #49
I asked the shop...here is the reply....

Question: Do they somehow compensate for the Shaker Hood Scoop when they dyno the car? I mean, there will be no air flowing through that while strapped in and being tuned but when rolling down the highway, some air is sent to the air filter area.

Answer: They tune the car in to actively adjust fueling and timing along with the amount of air the car is receiving. They have fans aimed at the front of the car while it is being tuned and while that is nowhere near the amount of air your car would have passing through it on the street it still enables them to tune accurately for real-world conditions and they will take all modifications into mind while doing the tune
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,720 Posts
I asked the shop...here is the reply....

Question: Do they somehow compensate for the Shaker Hood Scoop when they dyno the car? I mean, there will be no air flowing through that while strapped in and being tuned but when rolling down the highway, some air is sent to the air filter area.

Answer: They tune the car in to actively adjust fueling and timing along with the amount of air the car is receiving. They have fans aimed at the front of the car while it is being tuned and while that is nowhere near the amount of air your car would have passing through it on the street it still enables them to tune accurately for real-world conditions and they will take all modifications into mind while doing the tune
The “actively adjusting” is what every modern motor does. Except it’s not adjusting for the amount of air really I don’t think. Well, it is, but not anymore so than any other car.
The bottom line- “Ram Air” and open hood scoops aren’t forced induction. A hood isn’t a power producing mod.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Discussion Starter #51
It's not the hood, LOL, its what protrudes from the hood.

I did not purchase the scoop and poke a hole in my hood to make the car go faster. I just like the look.

But my basic understanding is the shaker hoods capture cool dense air, pressurized by the velocity of the car, and funneling it directly to the air filter of the engine.

And since dyno tuning involves, among other things, air fuel mixture - that the extra air being pushed towards the air filter would be a consideration....but I guess not.

Just learning this stuff. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,720 Posts
It's not the hood, LOL, its what protrudes from the hood.

I did not purchase the scoop and poke a hole in my hood to make the car go faster. I just like the look.

But my basic understanding is the shaker hoods capture cool dense air, pressurized by the velocity of the car, and funneling it directly to the air filter of the engine.

And since dyno tuning involves, among other things, air fuel mixture - that the extra air being pushed towards the air filter would be a consideration....but I guess not.

Just learning this stuff. Thanks.
Nah, no extra air man, no extra pressure. But it does look cool. It’s not a carbureted motor where there’s a hole right on top of the intake. Even then the air wasn’t getting forced in. It was just cooler than under hood air. But now all modern engines pull in outside air unless one is using an open filter in the engine bay.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,352 Posts
But my basic understanding is the shaker hoods capture cool dense air, pressurized by the velocity of the car, and funneling it directly to the air filter of the engine.

And since dyno tuning involves, among other things, air fuel mixture - that the extra air being pushed towards the air filter would be a consideration....but I guess not.
For the sake of the conversation, let's just assume that it DOES do that: the hood scoop draws "cold air" from outside the engine bay, and it is in a "high pressure area" which means there is a little more air pushed in than would be if the car was sitting still, or if the intake was in a "low pressure area."

The electronic fuel injection system adjusts for this in two ways:
1) it measures the temperature of the incoming air, and it adjusts its density/mass calculations accordingly
2) it measures the velocity of the incoming air, and it calculates the mass of incoming air from the temperature/density and other factors such as the area of the intake

The Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor is key in this -- it is the little sensor that sits in the stream of incoming air, and measures the temperature and velocity of the incoming air. The sensor does not know the diameter of the tube it is sitting in, and that diameter is important to the volume (and mass) of incoming air, so that needs to be plugged in to the tune (along with other things). That is why a new tune is so important if you change (increase) the diameter of the intake tube -- if the computer does the math based on the smaller tube, its numbers will be wrong.

The "tune" is the set of parameters that the computer uses to calculate all this. The tune is developed on the dyno to give the maximum performance in the dyno conditions. Then the computer can adjust from there, by measuring what is actually happening when the car is driving down the road. The computer "commands" the correct amount of fuel, based on the desired air/fuel mixture (which is actually based on mass of air and fuel) and the measured incoming air mass. (technically the mass isn't actually measured, it is calculated from velocity and density and other factors that are programmed in to the tune). All of this is built in to the "transfer tables" in the tune, but that is basically what it is doing.

I hope that makes sense; and I'll issue my standard disclaimer: "that is the way I understand it, your mileage may vary"
 
Joined
·
87 Posts
If you were concerned with increasing power, I would discourage the cams only approach. Since you're only after the sound, I say do what makes you happy. There are plenty of cams designed to give the lope without killing low end torque so re-gearing won't be absolutely necessary.
Since you will need a tune anyway, I would suggest getting an aftermarket intake as well to add some lovely induction roar to your cam-lope.
This is true. But since you're already there and especially with the intake being upgraded, might as well let it breathe and fully give you that power its supposed to by doing something about the exhaust.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,720 Posts
This is true. But since you're already there and especially with the intake being upgraded, might as well let it breathe and fully give you that power its supposed to by doing something about the exhaust.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Discussion Starter #56
For the sake of the conversation, let's just assume that it DOES do that: the hood scoop draws "cold air" from outside the engine bay, and it is in a "high pressure area" which means there is a little more air pushed in than would be if the car was sitting still, or if the intake was in a "low pressure area."

The electronic fuel injection system adjusts for this in two ways:
1) it measures the temperature of the incoming air, and it adjusts its density/mass calculations accordingly
2) it measures the velocity of the incoming air, and it calculates the mass of incoming air from the temperature/density and other factors such as the area of the intake

The Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor is key in this -- it is the little sensor that sits in the stream of incoming air, and measures the temperature and velocity of the incoming air. The sensor does not know the diameter of the tube it is sitting in, and that diameter is important to the volume (and mass) of incoming air, so that needs to be plugged in to the tune (along with other things). That is why a new tune is so important if you change (increase) the diameter of the intake tube -- if the computer does the math based on the smaller tube, its numbers will be wrong.

The "tune" is the set of parameters that the computer uses to calculate all this. The tune is developed on the dyno to give the maximum performance in the dyno conditions. Then the computer can adjust from there, by measuring what is actually happening when the car is driving down the road. The computer "commands" the correct amount of fuel, based on the desired air/fuel mixture (which is actually based on mass of air and fuel) and the measured incoming air mass. (technically the mass isn't actually measured, it is calculated from velocity and density and other factors that are programmed in to the tune). All of this is built in to the "transfer tables" in the tune, but that is basically what it is doing.

I hope that makes sense; and I'll issue my standard disclaimer: "that is the way I understand it, your mileage may vary"
Thanks for taking the time to explain this JBert. Very informative. It lines up with what the guys at shop said when he said "they tune the car in to actively adjust fueling"....so I get it a little better now thanks to the detail you've provided.

And 90lxwhite, I hear you too, about the fact it is not like an old school carburetor..... and I agree, it does look cool. Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,720 Posts
Thanks for taking the time to explain this JBert. Very informative. It lines up with what the guys at shop said when he said "they tune the car in to actively adjust fueling"....so I get it a little better now thanks to the detail you've provided.
The stock “tune” does the same thing as well. It doesn’t give the same fueling at idle as it does at 6k rpm. It’s “active.” The tuner gave a generic answer so he didn’t come off “jerky” by saying that the scoop didn’t work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Discussion Starter #58
LOL...But the scoop does work as advertised. I took this directly from Classic Design Concepts website :

In 1969, the Mustang Mach 1 was introduced as Ford's performance model that not only offered incredible acceleration, but also great style. One of the most recognizable features on this Mustang's long hood was the Shaker System. Give your 2005-09 Mustang an intimidating, classic look with the CDC Shaker System and its pronounced, cast aluminum hood scoop. Not only will your Mustang look better, but this component also works as a completely functional Ram Air product that will boost performance with an increase in horsepower and again, it looks really, really cool.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,720 Posts
LOL...But the scoop does work as advertised. I took this directly from Classic Design Concepts website :

In 1969, the Mustang Mach 1 was introduced as Ford's performance model that not only offered incredible acceleration, but also great style. One of the most recognizable features on this Mustang's long hood was the Shaker System. Give your 2005-09 Mustang an intimidating, classic look with the CDC Shaker System and its pronounced, cast aluminum hood scoop. Not only will your Mustang look better, but this component also works as a completely functional Ram Air product that will boost performance with an increase in horsepower and again, it looks really, really cool.
For what it’s worth, these guys recommend not using the block off plate that blocks the air from entering the stock air box through the fender. Questions: CDC Shaker Hood - The Mustang Source - Ford Mustang Forums
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Discussion Starter #60

Attachments

41 - 60 of 99 Posts
Top