Ford Mustang Forum banner

Six Banger First Build - I gotta be me...

2398 Views 56 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  toodamtall
Hi, I'm new to the forum, but not forums in general. Always wanted to start a build thread, now I can.

So, Quick about me; I'm late fifties, have had a career in the automotive industry for most of my life, and I've been an avid motorcycle rider also for most of my life. Currently ride an Indian Chieftain. I've always wanted a fun car, but was never in the position to spend the money and time. I also think a little differently from many.

In my younger years, eveyone was ogling the Mustang GT's and 5.0LX's while I thought the Turbocharged SVT was really cool. Right around that time frame, the Buick turbo Grand Nationals were heroes, the T-bird turbo coupe, followed by the Supercoupe. To be honest, a friend of my dad's built a pinto back in the early '70's with a turbo 2.3, draw through, carburated... Terrible car, but it was dangerously fast once you got past the lag. I say dangerously, because, well, it was a Pinto.

Fast forward. Ford put their engineering team into working with boosted engines, in theory to replace V-8's, and thankfully,, figured out how to build a decent bottom end to do this.

Where does this bring me?
Project scope:
Take a base v-6 S550 Mustang and make a fun car out of it. No, it won't compete with a Mach 1 or Shelby. I just want a fun car that I will enjoy. I'm no racer. I do enjoy some spirited driving and have the Blue Ridge Parkway as well as lots of twisty Virginia rural roads to play on. In the process, I plan on learning a bit about tuning the car and tweaking it to suit my desires.

Base pictures to follow.

Okay, Clean used 2017 V6 in Oxford white. 38K miles, well taken care of. Starter kit.
Hood Motor vehicle Automotive tire Car Vehicle
Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Automotive tire
Tire Vehicle Car Vehicle registration plate Grille
Automotive parking light Automotive tail & brake light Car Wheel Tire


So, I ordered 19x10 & 19x9 silver Forgestar F14's from the usual place. What arrived was a set of silver 19x10's and a set of Gunmetal 19x9's (??) When I called, I was told that the silver 19x9's were being discontinued (??). Actually, I like the Gunmetal better, now that I've seen it in person, so luckily they had those in 19x10. Should get them next week. Still, why would you send 2 different colors? And... if one was being discontinued, wouldn't you hold the order and call the customer to see what they want to do going forward? In reality, probably someone just picked the wron set to go with the order. To be fair, the customer service rep was very responsive on the phone with me, so we'll see how they are going forward. Just saw someone review the G-Max radials in another thread, so I'm glad I chose them. 275/40-19 rear, 255/40-19 front.

Pieces are rolling in a bit at a time. Procharger has been ordered, Solo axle back also. Audio upgrades as well. Drilled slotted rotors already here as well, PS Z23 pads on the way. I'll keep the current braking system for now, but will likely go GT front upgrade in the not too distant future. Will be back when more news is available.
Wheel Tire Automotive tire Motor vehicle Alloy wheel
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Tread Synthetic rubber
See less See more
6
  • Like
Reactions: 2
41 - 57 of 57 Posts
I even managed to keep the skin on my knuckles!
Ha Ha … That in itself is a small victory!
Debating the relative merits of going from a 3.15 gear to a 3.31 set. Part of the plan was to retain some gas mileage during the course of this project, but I'm curious if the difference will be noticeable in the seat of the pants feel. With the 3.15's on it, power braked to 2000 rpm before dropping the hammer, the tires don't break loose. High RPM power engine, because the 1-2 shift will actually cause the rear end to get a little squirrely. Not looking for intentional burnouts, just a quicker kick. Anyone have any input?

Ooh, and another question out there. Will the stock V6 spindles and caliper mounts directly support the 6 piston Brembo calipers, and do the stock V6 hubs support the matching 15" rotors to said calipers? I may just go GT stock 4 pistons with 14" rotors. Not sure.
See less See more
With the increased HP I wouldn't change the rear gears simply because it might decrease traction and make it more unpredictable when it shifts. You could get yourself into trouble if that happens around a turn or on loose pavement. That's just my opinion though.
The regular Ecoboost and v6 got 2 piston factory front calipers, the regular GT and Performance Package Ecoboost got 4 piston fronts, and the GT Performance Package got 6 piston Brembo fronts. There are 3 different single piston rear calipers though which probably correlate with the 3 different front brakes. As I recall there are no differences in the spindles between the models but caliper mounting brackets, pads, etc are different. There's only Shelby and non-Shelby spindles.
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 2
Recent pictures. Took them in front of the Nation al D-Day Memoral here in Bedford, VA.
Wheel Tire Vehicle Sky Cloud
Wheel Tire Vehicle Sky Grille
Tire Car Sky Vehicle Automotive tail & brake light
Tire Wheel Sky Vehicle Automotive tail & brake light
Wheel Sky Tire Vehicle Cloud
Hood Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive design Aircraft
Motor vehicle Hood Vehicle Automotive tire Car
See less See more
7
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 3
Alrighty then. Decided today to pull the trigger on a few new improvements. I've heard a bunch of good things about Ortiz tuning, so after doing a little bit of narrowing down of what I want to ideally to with the car, I sprung for the following: Level 4 (forced induction) tuning support. A 3.9" Procharger pulley - the current pulley is 4.10", gets around 8psi, I'm figuring 9-10psi, so still doable on 93 octane, and a set of DW 65lb/hr injectors.

I still haven't installed the BBK ceramic shorties yet. I think I'll go with a set of high flow cats at the same time, so the entire exhaust is a finished package.
After this, I think I'll be officially "done", at least from a power perspective.

Not saying there isn't going to be more stuff coming, but anything else will go toward appearance, comfort, chassis etc. Big brakes up front are still on my radar at some point.
See less See more
I think I'll go with a set of high flow cats at the same time
Don't do it. It's a waste of $ and even more so with a turbo you need a quality set of cats that only the OEM manufacturer can provide. Aftermarket cats are cheaper and not going to last.
"high flow" cats aren't really a thing and you would be swapping out for less effective cats with a lower life span that might also trigger trouble codes. Truly independent dyno comparisons have shown that factory cats don't actually restrict the exhaust to any appreciable and measurable amount despite whatever rumors that you've heard. Here's a dyno result video of a guy that deleted only the cats with no other necessary changes on a car with only mild mods: 2016 Challenger SRT 392. Cat removal dyno results. - YouTube
See less See more
  • Like
  • Helpful
Reactions: 2
Interesting information... I haven't done the cats yet, so still doing research for sure. I do have a few thoughts about it and so I'm somewhat interested in opinions on it.
You mentioned turbocharging. On this one I get it. To some degree some back pressure is acceptable to keep the hot side drive vanes working correctly. I'm talking about a centrifugal supercharger here, though. Freeing up restriction on the exhaust side should, in theory, allow the engine to spin up faster, thereby bringing the increasing gear on the impeller up to working rpm faster. Thoughts?
As for aftermarket vs' oem quality, yeah, i can see this. Curious if there would be any merit in running a set of GT (2.5" outlet) over a set of V6 cats (2.25" outlet). This would theoretically allow a minor drop in back pressure by allowing around a 22% increase in flow area across the catalyst media. Just a thought exercise for now.
See less See more
Interesting information... I haven't done the cats yet, so still doing research for sure. I do have a few thoughts about it and so I'm somewhat interested in opinions on it.
You mentioned turbocharging. On this one I get it. To some degree some back pressure is acceptable to keep the hot side drive vanes working correctly. I'm talking about a centrifugal supercharger here, though. Freeing up restriction on the exhaust side should, in theory, allow the engine to spin up faster, thereby bringing the increasing gear on the impeller up to working rpm faster. Thoughts?
As for aftermarket vs' oem quality, yeah, i can see this. Curious if there would be any merit in running a set of GT (2.5" outlet) over a set of V6 cats (2.25" outlet). This would theoretically allow a minor drop in back pressure by allowing around a 22% increase in flow area across the catalyst media. Just a thought exercise for now.
Turbocharged or supercharged makes no difference since any forced induction will be harder on the cats making the best quality cats even more important. Any aftermarket cat that you buy will be inferior quality to the cats that the manufacturer puts on the car from the factory. You get significantly less precious metals in the aftermarket cats along with second rate quality. The factory cats will usually last the life of the car. Don't expect the same with aftermarket cats. There are very many examples of aftermarket cats kicking the bucket in just a year or two.
As I said there is no extra restriction with OEM cats vs aftermarket cats. That's a total fallacy. Real and honest independent dyno comparisons show that you make no consistent and measurable power gains outside of the dyno error margins running no cats at all. Any dyno comparison that you might see that allegedly advertises power gains with aftermarket cats or no cats is complete bs. They alter the tune, cherry pick dyno runs, and usually will make other changes as well to show those power gains. You very rarely see an impartial dyno comparison which isn't a work of fiction. Most of them are by people that have an interest in selling you something, getting views, or by just perpetuating the lie for their benefit or industry.
This is why I posted that link from a guy with nothing to gain from spewing the no or aftermarket cat myth.
As far as upping the size of the pipes I believe you will probably gain a small bit of HP especially on the higher end but I doubt it would be very much in this application. It already has a 2-1/4" exhaust with a 3.7 v6 so going to a 2-1/2" wouldn't exactly produce gobs of HP, at least not enough to make it worth the money and effort imo.
Where do you get a 22% increase in flow by going up only a 1/4" in diameter?
See less See more
  • Helpful
Reactions: 1
It already has a 2-1/4" exhaust with a 3.7 v6 so going to a 2-1/2" wouldn't exactly produce gobs of HP, at least not enough to make it worth the money and effort imo.
Where do you get a 22% increase in flow by going up only a 1/4" in diameter?
Circular cross section, i.e. surface area of a circle, πR² yields 3.98 in² for 2.25" and 4.91in² for 2.5". The real world limiting factor of the system would actually be the cross section of the actual cat, but the plumbing in and of itself will have a higher flow rate. This is the most basic level of geometry, so I'm sure there are a bunch more calculations involved. I haven't factored in turbulence due to bends in the system, or gas velocity, or extra gas pressure due to the fact that I am running a higher that atmospheric intake charge. I never got into flow dynamics or fluid dynamics in college, I was gearing more toward plastic/industrial engineering.

You have absolutely made your case regarding the quality or material/design used in the cat itself, however. No question the FoMoCo can access better materials and engineering.
See less See more
I regrettably didn't take college level math, engineering, or physics so I can't say what exactly the increase in flow would ultimately amount to by going up only 1/4" diameter in a real world scenario but I do know that many other factors, some of which you mentioned, other than that basic formula will affect the actual results.
It's pretty well understood that flow resistance will decrease when you have a larger diameter exhaust but that's not the only consideration for engine efficiency. You need some resistance and having, for example, a full 3" exhaust may actually hurt engine performance at least thru much of the usable RPM range for a street car. For instance, I don't really see any v8 owners going from 2-1/2" to putting full 3" exhausts on their street cars even with forced induction.
No doubt though that increasing the exhaust size would help free up some amount of HP at the upper end at the very least, but throttle response might suffer or then again maybe it wouldn't with a boosted engine. Perhaps you would gain some low or mid end too since you have forced induction now and it's unclear where the bottleneck in the system currently is. I would think that it would be the intake manifold or heads before the exhaust though which is why I tend to think upsizing the whole exhaust isn't going to be all that beneficial.
In any case, my main point is that many people think that getting rid of cats, which you really can't effectively do anymore anyway, or replacing your factory cats with "high flow" aftermarkets is a benefit. Unbiased dyno comparisons similar to what I linked to prove otherwise. There's only a downside of lower quality, life, and catalytic effectiveness. Idk what it is about the design of the linear ceramic matrix in the converter that doesn't result in the restriction that most people think that it does but it doesn't nonetheless.
Comparing a factory catted exhaust to not cats at all with no other changes made will result in basically almost zero power gains. If there's no meaningful or consistently measurable gains from that transition, then going from factory cats to "high flow" cats will be even less so.
Clearing Up the Myth About High Flow Catalytic Converters
See less See more
  • Helpful
Reactions: 1
Pretty good read on the cats. You pretty much just convinced me to leave well enough alone. Hell, they're expensive anyhow!
  • Like
Reactions: 2
I had been meaning to post these links on your thread since I had mentioned it a while back. Since yours is supercharged now you should be aware of this possible issue. This isn't to scare you or anything but just to be vigilant if you ever get the P0019 code to not run the engine until it gets inspected. It has to do with supercharged 3.7 v6 engines:
(122) Dtc code trigered p0019! | Ford Mustang Forum (allfordmustangs.com)
follow up with explanation:
(122) 2011 mustang v6 DTC CODE P0019 | Ford Mustang Forum (allfordmustangs.com)
(177) Cyclone mustang not starting | Ford Mustang Forum (allfordmustangs.com)
follow up:
(177) PCM failure diagnosis | Ford Mustang Forum (allfordmustangs.com)
See less See more
Thanks CJ. I wasn't able to follow all of the links, I think some are broken, but I got the gist. Something I need to be aware of for sure, especially since I'm upping the boost level a bit. On the plus side, I don't race, the car is more for pleasure and my own spirited driving adventures. I will keep an eye and ear out for signs, though.
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Okay, had a bad car day today. Some self inflicted, some just random WTF crap.

Replaced the Procharger pulley. Went from a 4.10 to a 3.85. Went smoothly enough. Also replaced the injectors with DW 65 lb/hr units. Again, no biggie. Buttoned everything back up (so I thought). Loaded the Ortiz 93 tune. Started the car. initially the idle was high, dropped, seemed to settle. Figured I was good. Went to datalog and had a communication thing (I have next to nothing for wifi in my garage,). Shut down the car, figured I'd come back to it after updating in the house.
Smoke coming from the passenger side of the engine! After I figured it out, I had an oh **** moment. I forgot to put the MAP sensor back on the manifold. It had dropped down and melted against the exhaust.
This is an F150 ecoboost MAP sensor, so, I ran down to Autozone, picked up a new one, grabbed an F150 connector & pigtail at the same time. The Procarger kit had come with an adapter plug that went between the stock Mustang and the new F150 sensor, which had also melted.
So, I spliced in the new connector, being very careful to match it wire for wire in position. plugged in the new sensor, installed it. and started the car.
Nope, tried to start the car. Wasn't happening. Smelled like it was flooded, would almost catch, then die.

So, I'm scratching my head now. I sent off emails to Ortiz about the tune. I'm seeing one of two issues here.
Either A), wiring the F150 plug driectly to the Mustang harness, I somehow didn't match the position right and its sending the wrong signal, or...
B) the Duralast sensor they gave me at autozone simply isn't going to work in this application. I think I may need to rule that out by getting the correct Motorcraft part. The issue will now be to solve the potential wiring issue. I'm not sure if it did it right by going from one style to the next.

Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.

Yeah, the last thing that happened was I opened the driver's door, and somehow, the glass just shattered! Out of the blue. The only thing that even touched the glass was my wedding ring when I opened it. WTF? my wife was there and saw it just fall into a million pieces! I wasn't forceful, and the wedding ring just tapped it. The window has aftermarket tint film on it which kept some of the pieces together.

I decided I needed to walk away from the garage at this point for my own mental health.
See less See more
  • Sad
Reactions: 1
We all have those days, brother. You did the best thing by taking a step back and going for a breather, our cars are like our kids: you love them to death but that doesn't mean you don't send them off somewhere for a weekend to get a break.

I can maybe make you feel a bit better about the window...
Buddy bought my 96 Dakota. Now keep in mind I abused the piss out of that truck as a DD and mudder for almost a year before I got my bmw. Never had an issue with it.

3 months after he got it (didn't change a thing from how I had the truck) he goes to shut the door and the window explodes.


Anyway, to your issue. The doors on the Mustangs are nice, but their design introduces an inherent problem from lack of glass support. This means that the glass flexes every time you open and close the door.
Micro-stress + Micro-stress + Micro-stress etc......

It's all good, just a cherry on top of a crappy-day-sundae. Great thing about the door design is it's alot easier to put new glass in.
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 2
The saga continues, but, at least I'm on the right track.
Window glass has been replaced.
I ordered the CX2657 3 bar MAP sensor. Surprise, surprise, It takes the Mustang Connector, not the F150 connector. Its all good, got the right connector, spliced everything in. Started up, now seems to be reading correctly.
Sent my first datalog off to Ortiz. Apparently, I have a boost/vacuum leak. Billy at Ortiz recommended a smoke test. Mechanic up the street from me kindly let me borrow his tester.
Pressurized it with the tester, soon wisps of smoke are rising up from the passenger side of the intercooler. Figures, I expected to have to remove the nose now. Sigh...
Pulled the skid pan off, lo and behold, one of the mounting bolts had almost worked its way out! The threaded holes they go into are through holes into the interior of the cooler. Did not have to take the nose off, could reach it from underneath. First win of the day! Loctite blue to the rescue. Decided to remove all of them and dope the threads up nice.
Just sent off another datalog to Ortiz, so we'll see where it goes next. Its fueling right at least. The A/F ratio is following the load and rpm correctly, so we're on the right track now. We'll see if there are any other red flags along the way, or if we can move to driving datalogs next.
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 2
Ooh, in all the frustration, forgot to mention a couple of fun things. I'll post pics soon. Sent off the radiator cover along with a set of the corner fillers to my Cerakote guy. He also does hydrodip graphics. Going to hit them with a clear/carbon fiber over blue background paint. Should come out as a blue/black carbon pattern.
Also decided that the sides of the car needed some pick-me-up. I'm doing a set of running horse decals with "Mustang" following them on the fender quarter/rockers. No stripes, though. It will be in the same blue as the super snake stripes I have, just sans the striping.
See less See more
41 - 57 of 57 Posts
Top