[Vero_Mustang]

So, before I start I wanna give a quick piece of important information.. The car when started makes a ticking noise similar to a valve tap but when given throttle; it doesn't behave like a valve tap and sometimes carries out a drawn out sound then goes back to its independent ticking noise. May be a coil pack perhaps but when warmed up, issue disappears...

Now...

I raced a close buddy of mine and he drives an EVO..fun race because he didn't burn me as bad as I always imagined but anyways, when going home I did a quick burn out but lost track of my rpms in second because she kicked out more than it usually did and I tached out and the car wanted to die. I could give it gas and it would stay on but i let it die then started it up and drove it easy down the road. Popped the hood and we noticed the belt had a good seam missing so I took it real easy and limped home. My limit in rpm went down as time went by from 2300 down to 1200 then to nothing. Little gas and it would jerk hard(not like new at clutch jerk) I turned it off.
Tried to turn it one didn't start.
Cooled down and tried, started but after about a minute it bogged down and died.. Now won't start..

I pulled the crankshaft position sensor and cleaned it off just to see and got nothin. P0320 code popped up.. Oil is fine coolant is fine...thoughts on why car won't start? Belt? Coil packs? Head gasket? Thanks peeps im not stressed as I usually would be and wanna get it Rollin again.. Will crank but not turn over..
-mustang

 

[wmburns]

What Model year Mustang are we dealing with?

If this were my car I would first rule out an ignition problem such as a blown out spark plug.

I have worked on several cars where the drive belt broke. In both cases some of the cords of the belt wrapped around the water pump and other driven accessories. So I would look at the possibility that's why the motor is bogging down and won't start.

Here's a crank with no start check list. But honestly based upon an "over rev" event, I would consider performing a compression test just be sure that the motor's basic health is OK.

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/4-6l-tech/336452-1997-mustang-wont-ignite.html#2984838

 

[Vero_Mustang]

Ah right it's a 02 gt. Some thread was wrapped around and I removed it. Don't think there is more but I will check. Anything else? Thanks

 

[Vero_Mustang]

I checked the inertia switch and the button is still down so I rule that out. Tried three spare fuel modules and they were all bad except the one that was on there before and the pigtail switch near the tank under the bumper looks good although if the pump is engaging im gonna rule out fuel pump... :/

 

[wmburns]

There are several tests called out in the "crank with no start" check list. What are the results? Posting the results creates a decision tree that helps us to help you.

Has fuel pressure been CONFIRMED?

Mentioned in the duplicate thread there was no spark. How was this confirmed?

Why are you opening a new thread for the same problem?

 

[Vero_Mustang]

I opened a new thread because I was hoping to have more hits.. I never confirmed no spark I just narrowed it down to it being not a fuel issue. I tested the fuel pressure and I'm good. As mentioned, anything that had to do with fuel has been checked, even injectiors... I'm at work now so hopefully I can check everything when I get home as far as coil packs go. I'm trying to troubleshoot as much as I can. You're asking me questions that are partially helping. Suggestions would be golden as to what to check. Code is P0320 if I forgot to mention that before

 

[wmburns]

Should I assume that you have ruled out a blown out spark plug? Frankly the reported sounds that the motor are making could be caused by a blown out spark plug or a spark plug with a closed gap.

I could also see a case if the gap were slammed close by piston contact on several spark plugs this could cause P0320.

Confirm that the connector to the CKP sensor hasn't come loose or broken. Pay SPECIAL attention there aren't any belt cords wrapped around the crank shaft as this could mess up the CKP sensor signal.

Confirm there is +12 volts at one (or more) COP red wire with the key on. IMO it's easiest to test at the radio interference capacitor.

If no voltage there's a CCRM problem, Ignition switch problem, CCRM/PCM ground problem, or a blown fuse.

If there is voltage, then additional tests are needed.

Do you have an ODB2 scanner capable of monitoring operational data? If so, this might make short work of this problem.

Consider performing a compression test.

Consider removing the valve covers to inspect for broken valve train parts.

 

[Vero_Mustang]

I have a scanner and I removed the coil packs. One was torn and other inside spring was way too loose. PO told me that noise is lifter noise from the timing service he did. It's not terrible at all just different to me... Gonna do some testing as soon as I can get to the garage.. My scanner can read a lot of these diags onboard so I guess I will take the path of least resistance until she wakes up! Needs a few things anyways why not replace some things.

 

[wmburns]

Recommend repairing the COP problems as these could cause the DTC.

Should there be no voltage at the COP's, this motor will never start.

Use the ODB2 scanner to monitor RPM's during cranking. The RPM's should change. This will confirm that the PCM is getting a signal from the CKP sensor.

Post the fuel pressure as reported by the PCM.

Post the MAF value with the key on motor off. Monitor the MAF value during cranking. Verify that the MAF value changes during cranking.

 

[Vero_Mustang]

Abbreviations driving me crazy because I haven't memorized the book. COP is? DTC? Reading up on some things it's saying if the crankshaft position sensor is shot it won't let the spark plugs or injectors fire due to no signal.. Might replace that with the coil packs

 

[stevew01]

Abbreviations driving me crazy because I haven't memorized the book. COP is? DTC? Reading up on some things it's saying if the crankshaft position sensor is shot it won't let the spark plugs or injectors fire due to no signal.. Might replace that with the coil packs

COP - Coil on plug. DTC - diagnostic trouble code.

First thing I would do is connect your diagnostic scanner to the car and if it is anything more than code reader and go to live data where you can watch different things on the car as you are having the car run. Yes, I know it wont start but the purpose here is you can try to start the car and watch to see if your scanner picks up a rpm signal. If it shows an rpm signal then the crank sensor is good. If it doesnt show the rpm signal then the crank sensor is bad. If I were a betting man I would place my money on a crank sensor and since it is about 20 bucks that is where I would start.

 

[Vero_Mustang]

Good call brother, I was thinking the same. I have the packs off and wanna replace em since the PO did the plugs already..
I was thinking the sensor too because before it died entirely i started 3 times and all 3 times it ran perfect until dying of course plus my fuel delivery seems to be on point.. So I'm gonna check into the sensor seeing that if it sucks it won't signal everything else to work and what I'm guessing is that as I was limping home it was just going bad as time went by... My scanner can read live so I will definitely check it out. Thanks will keep everyone updated

 

[wmburns]

+1 on above. However I'm not so sure that this will be as simple bad CKP sensor.

Why? Because there are more specific DTC codes related to CKP issues. The P0320 DTC is more likely associated with a failed/bad/broken/arcing/grounded/open ignition system. Hence the reason to look for bad COP's and grounded spark plugs.

One possible theory is that the metal cords from the serpentine belt have wrapped around the crank shaft and have either damaged the CKP sensor or sensor wiring, or the metal is interfering with the CKP sensor signal. The first test should be a through visual inspection.

But the test of monitoring RPM's with an ODB2 scanner is easy and free.

Also possible to test the fuel injectors using a "noid" style test light during cranking. If an injector firing pulse is seen, then the CKP sensor is good since a bad CKP sensor would stop both injector pulse AND spark.

Trouble shooting is a process that is driven on information. But think about the whole list of symptoms. The problem began after an over RPM event. This caused the serpentine belt to be shredded. While anything is possible, IMO it makes more sense to focus on a possible failure that is related to the initiating event. Regarding a possible CKP sensor issue, the CKP sensor is sooooo vital to the motor's operation I just don't see it causing a "bog down" symptom. Where as an ignition problem could easy cause the motor to bog down. Given the ignition related DTC code just adds to the theory.

I just don't see the CKP sensor suddenly deciding to go bad at just the moment the motor was over RPM'ed. IMO it more likely that any failed part is related to the over RPM event.

That's why if this were my car I would first ensure there are absolutely no left over pieces of belt wrapped around any rotating assemblies. Then I would pull the spark plugs and inspect each. Looking for damage especially an electrode smashed closed. Removing the spark plugs will also allow positive verification that none of the spark plug threads in the heads have been damaged. This will also offer an easy chance to inspect the COP's for damage.

RPM=revolutions per minute
ODB2=On-board Diagnostics (version 2)
PCM=Powertrain Control Module. The Motor's brain.
MAF=Mass Air Flow sensor
CKP=crank shaft position sensor.

 

[Vero_Mustang]

Yo bros, got my coil packs in from am-auto parts (53$ shipped) and installed them, before looking into the sensor i wanted to try to start it. I plugged in the battery and inertia switch and BOOM fired right up! Success!! Thanks peeps!

 

[stevew01]

Glad you got it all fixed up. Thats really good you fixed it. Thanks for the follow up post to let us know.

 

[Vero_Mustang]

Yeah I think the crankshaft position switch came loose a little tbh