[s197inthe208]

I'm sort of undecided as to whether or not I want to save up for SSM's 2+ Heads. It's just heads, no cams, and they run about $1600. Now with gaskets, studs, specialized tools, and the the endless misc which will go wrong, I tallied it up to about $2k.

I really love the idea of making N/A power, but the main reason I'm considering it is because it's a very substantial gain in the power curve for a relatively cheap price where I can still have summer wages left over to work on the Javelin. They CLAIM a 20 peak hp increase and something like a 80 non peak increase w/out a tune if I'm correct? The dyno curves don't lie.. they're nice.. and a lot flatter than stock.

My questions go like this:

1. Does AM even write tunes that support SSM heads? I know they flake out on turbo setups but I haven't heard about head or cam stuff from them. Would I be fine with the tune I'm running now? "(91 Race filling up with 92 Octane).

2. If I go ahead and do this am I going to need to install bigger injectors?

3. Does SSM still buy back your old heads? And if so, does anyone know how much?

Thanks for the replies in advance, and please nobody tell me to "Just supercharge it". If you're going to convince me of a F/I setup for a similar price, do a turbo argument, and tell me a tuner that will support it. :bigthumbsup

 

[Guest]

I've not even heard of SSM heads. I think the hot ticket these days is RGR heads or Fox Lake and Fox Lake's valve work is claimed to be very good for not losing power on the bottom end as most heads are when you grind them for max power. Then again they won't likey be as good on the top. I'm having a real hard time believing 80hp increase ESPECIALLY with stock cams. Generally the whole reason to get heads is more flow, but don't you think a cam should be taking advantage of that? If your doing all the labor yourself that certainly helps the cost though. As far as AM doing a tune for it you can PM them or call them and get it straight from the horses mouth. If I was messing with the heads I personally would put it on the dyno. You can check the injector duty cycle with a handheld. Whether or not you would need new injectors is dependent on how much horsepower your making at the engine. If you make 80 extra horsepower, which I don't believe, then you need to step up the injector. 24lb injectors on a N/A engine should support about 380hp at 80% duty cycle. Really should put it on a dyno, that way you don't have to guess.

 

[s197inthe208]

I've not even heard of SSM heads. I think the hot ticket these days is RGR heads or Fox Lake and Fox Lake's valve work is claimed to be very good for not losing power on the bottom end as most heads are when you grind them for max power. Then again they won't likey be as good on the top. I'm having a real hard time believing 80hp increase ESPECIALLY with stock cams. Generally the whole reason to get heads is more flow, but don't you think a cam should be taking advantage of that? If your doing all the labor yourself that certainly helps the cost though. As far as AM doing a tune for it you can PM them or call them and get it straight from the horses mouth. If I was messing with the heads I personally would put it on the dyno. You can check the injector duty cycle with a handheld. Whether or not you would need new injectors is dependent on how much horsepower your making at the engine. If you make 80 extra horsepower, which I don't believe, then you need to step up the injector. 24lb injectors on a N/A engine should support about 380hp at 80% duty cycle. Really should put it on a dyno, that way you don't have to guess.

You've never heard of Super Six Motorsports?
As I said, the heads CLAIM that much, but that is a non peak very low in the rpm range. I haven't heard of RGR or Fox Lake but I'll scope that out.

 

[Guest]

Fox lake have been in magazines and some guys on this forum had some goddamn-nightmare issues with livernois. Some guys here that have motors bad enough to mandate forged motors recommend the RGR the most. SMS might be good, just never heard of them and the hp claim seemed ludicrous without a cam on an otherwise stock s197. I can tell you this, RGR got some pricey heads. Fox lake are a tad cheaper and have a little less flow but should be more friendly around town.

 

[jaja6009]

He has a 4.0 motor. SMS specializes in the 4.0 and 3.8 motors.
While 80hp seems high the 4.0 heads dont flow that well stock so a good porting on them should give more power than porting on 4.6 3v heads which flow decently stock.

 

[Guest]

Crap. Yeah cant see sigs on tapatalk

 

[s197inthe208]

Bump. Any insight as to BAMA tuning for SSM heads? I'm still interested in this.

 

[neeby1]

Jeez,
Super Six, Tom Y. has been around forever. There are small but real good. They are one off the few companies that truly specailize in the 4.0L. Another company that is great is MMR, they don't advertive their 4.0L products but they probably have built the most bad ass mustangs around. Modular Mustang Racing check these guys out. BBB approved.

But I think it's better to go to a engine machine shop, and have your heads ported not polished, intake / exhaust port shaped and openned, a high pro valve job and have your valves reconditioned. It will cost about the same maybe a little more but the air flow efficienties will be meassured for your car and the job will be complete.

The "Porting and Polishing" myth
It is popularly held that enlarging the ports to the maximum possible size and applying a mirror finish is what porting is. However that is not so. Some ports may be enlarged to their maximum possible size (in keeping with the highest level of aerodynamic efficiency) but those engines are highly developed very high speed units where the actual size of the ports has become a restriction. Larger ports flow more fuel/air at higher RPM's but sacrifice torque at lower RPM's due to lower fuel/air velocity. A mirror finish of the port does not provide the increase that intuition suggests. In fact, within intake systems, the surface is usually deliberately textured to a degree of uniform roughness to encourage fuel deposited on the port walls to evaporate quickly. A rough surface on selected areas of the port may also alter flow by energizing the boundary layer, which can alter the flow path noticeably, possibly increasing flow. This is similar to what the dimples on a golf ball do. Flow bench testing shows that the difference between a mirror finished intake port and a rough textured port is typically less than 1%. The difference between a smooth to the touch port and an optically mirrored surface is not measurable by ordinary means. Exhaust ports may be smooth finished because of the dry gas flow and in the interest of minimizing exhaust by-product build-up. A 300 - 400 Grit finish followed by a light buff is generally accepted to be representative of a near optimal finish for exhaust gas ports.
The reason that polished ports are not advantageous from a flow standpoint is that at the interface between the metal wall and the air, the air speed is ZERO (see boundary layer and laminar flow). This is due to the wetting action of the air and indeed all fluids. The first layer of molecules adheres to the wall and does not move significantly. The rest of the flow field must shear past, which develops a velocity profile (or gradient) across the duct. For surface roughness to impact flow appreciably, the high spots must be high enough to protrude into the faster moving air toward the center. Only a very rough surface does this.

 

[s197inthe208]

Jeez,
Super Six, Tom Y. has been around forever. There are small but real good. They are one off the few companies that truly specailize in the 4.0L. Another company that is great is MMR, they don't advertive their 4.0L products but they probably have built the most bad ass mustangs around. Modular Mustang Racing check these guys out. BBB approved.

Good to know about MMR, they've never come up in any of my searches so I'll check out that link. I've done simple gasket matching stuff on my Javelin 401, so I understand the whole atomization idea and basic concepts about p&p's.

I have a local engine shop that I trust and have used for the 401, and one of the options that I've considered is taking my heads there because I think they would actually do the job for less than SSM. I'm still on the fence. I feel like SSM is well established and would definitely stand behind their work.

 

[jstafford1]

Have you looked into Tom Morana http://www.moranav6racing.com
they have stage 3 heads that I think include reground cams. Also have a stroker kit for the 4.0 to a 4.3.
Sent from the "Angry 6er" via Tapatalk

 

[s197inthe208]

Have you looked into Tom Morana Tom Morana Racing Engines
they have stage 3 heads that I think include reground cams. Also have a stroker kit for the 4.0 to a 4.3.
Sent from the "Angry 6er" via Tapatalk

It's definitely more expensive than SSM.. are you sure the heads come with reground cams? Cams would be nice but I know that adds a huge amount of complexity to the project.. or so I've heard. I've never heard of a stroker 4.3 before! Cool deal

 

[neeby1]

You are right, once you get to 400 rwhp and a cam will get you there. You have to think about getting forged internals maybe even h rods or Manly tuffs I rods. At that point you have to consider your compression ratio. Another thing to consider-not many people know how to degree the cams and set the timing chain in that particular engine it has no timing marks like most engines. If you know a really good machine shop I would talk at the very least to them first before I did my cams.

 

[jstafford1]

It's definitely more expensive than SSM.. are you sure the heads come with reground cams? Cams would be nice but I know that adds a huge amount of complexity to the project.. or so I've heard. I've never heard of a stroker 4.3 before! Cool deal

Not 100% on the cams....I thought I read it in the description for their stage 3 heads. I could be wrong that's why I said "I think" they did. They are a little bit more at $2200 for the stage 3 heads, but it is another option for ya. I think they offer forged internals as well so its something to look into. And yes the stroker kit is a nice option.

Sent from the "Angry 6er" via Tapatalk

 

[s197inthe208]

You are right, once you get to 400 rwhp and a cam will get you there. You have to think about getting forged internals maybe even h rods or Manly tuffs I rods. At that point you have to consider your compression ratio. Another thing to consider-not many people know how to degree the cams and set the timing chain in that particular engine it has no timing marks like most engines. If you know a really good machine shop I would talk at the very least to them first before I did my cams.

Not too worried about hitting the 400 rwhp mark haha. I really think I would want to stick with some Stage 2 type heads that would just help it breathe a little better, and slap a Vortech on their and blast off. I will be happy with 300 rwhp when I'm done.

Not 100% on the cams....I thought I read it in the description for their stage 3 heads. I could be wrong that's why I said "I think" they did. They are a little bit more at $2200 for the stage 3 heads, but it is another option for ya. I think they offer forged internals as well so its something to look into. And yes the stroker kit is a nice option.

Thanks for putting their products on my radar! It's always good to know more places to buy parts for these engines. 4.6L's get all the love it seems!