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Alright I know that I am not the first one on here curious as to how far they can push their stock 4.6L 3V powered GT engine before she just gives up.

Right now I am running my Gen VI Saleen with the 3.6 pulley and puttin down 400rw hp & tq on a mustang dyno. I've Got the itch for more..... I am considering a set of Kooks Longtubes with catted-X and pulley down to the 3.4 for about 10psi, thinkin I may end up around 475 at the tires.

Sooooo... I know that the general consensus is about 450rwhp. There are many of you out there that run 450-500rwhp, or even beyond. I would like to know what your setups are, what type of forced induction you've run, and if you've had any issues, like if you've had a rod or two make a peep hole for you to examine the guts of your engine.

Please post you guys experiences both good and bad! This forum is a wealth of knowledge so I wanna give an up front thanks to everyone!
 

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Nowadays, the established safe max is about 500rwhp. Stock clutch WONT hold more than 450. I have 451 and notice some slip. I can see from your sig you have that covered. :bigthumbsup

If you want absolute safety, stay where you are. I've already started up a rainy day fund for if/when my engine blows. You have to pay if you wanna play.
 

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Alright I know that I am not the first one on here curious as to how far they can push their stock 4.6L 3V powered GT engine before she just gives up.

Right now I am running my Gen VI Saleen with the 3.6 pulley and puttin down 400rw hp & tq on a mustang dyno. I've Got the itch for more..... I am considering a set of Kooks Longtubes with catted-X and pulley down to the 3.4 for about 10psi, thinkin I may end up around 475 at the tires.

Sooooo... I know that the general consensus is about 450rwhp. There are many of you out there that run 450-500rwhp, or even beyond. I would like to know what your setups are, what type of forced induction you've run, and if you've had any issues, like if you've had a rod or two make a peep hole for you to examine the guts of your engine.

Please post you guys experiences both good and bad! This forum is a wealth of knowledge so I wanna give an up front thanks to everyone!
Save your money on the Long Tubes and put it towards a forged block. Then you can freely upgrade later without the worry of kaboom..
 

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Nowadays, the established safe max is about 500rwhp. Stock clutch WONT hold more than 450. I have 451 and notice some slip. I can see from your sig you have that covered. :bigthumbsup

If you want absolute safety, stay where you are. I've already started up a rainy day fund for if/when my engine blows. You have to pay if you wanna play.
I run a Vortech V3 HO kit @ 10psi. The car was tuned by Brenspeed making 480hp at the wheels.:kooky: Runs perfect, no issues with the stock clutch either.:bigthumbsup
 

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I run a Vortech V3 HO kit @ 10psi. The car was tuned by Brenspeed making 480hp at the wheels.:kooky: Runs perfect, no issues with the stock clutch either.:bigthumbsup
You probably aren't having an issue because a centri is a smooth buildup of power, rather than a clutch destroying instantaneous push like from a TS/Roots/TVS.

Some people get lucky. I'd say I have. I only notice it on a HARD shift. It held a 4th gear dyno pull no problem, so I think in most cases the stocker is fine. Many people complain of breaking 400rwhp and having to replace the clutch.
 

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Instead of increasing boost, go with the long tubes and catted midpipe: this will reduce stress on the engine while still making more power. You may even notice a small decrease in boost because the air is flowing easier but you will see a major gain.
Another gain can be had by adding a huge intercooler such as the Afco w/twin fans to lower your intake temps; again another h.p. adder with no additional stress on the engine.
One word of warning though: the Kooks and most other catted pipes will break apart and destroy your engine with a blower. They are using low cost crappy cats. I suggest looking into Magnaflow metallic cats as I don't recall hearing the horror stories about them as I do Kooks, Pypes,etc...
These 2 mods and a great tune should get you more power than you can handle:laughlitt
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Nick, yeah I got the clutch handled! My stocker wasn't slipping at 400/400 at the tires but it was time to "bullet proof" the drivetrain for future upgrades. Must plan ahead! I'm sure if you read my sig you know that I have paid a good deal to play but I'm just getting started! haha... when the speed bug bites you can't scratch enough to kill the itch!

Anyone else looking to do a TR6060 swap I would be 100% behind you. So far I love it even with the 3.55 rearend. For Daily its :bigthumbsup:bigthumbsup:bigthumbsup

MUSSL, where's the kaboom? I Didn't hear the earth shattering KABOOM! lol! (Marvin the Martian :bigthumbsup) Agreed 100% on the forged SB. I will probably run the FRPP aluminator with stock compression and heads and then put 12lbs through that bad boy. Just gotta get the money together for the block, new timing chain tensioners, arp head studs and rod bolts, etc, all the little stuff adds up too.
 

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One word of warning though: the Kooks and most other catted pipes will break apart and destroy your engine with a blower. They are using low cost crappy cats.
I never heard that before...what's your source?

OP: when I first installed my Procharger, it was on the stock motor and I made a bit over 500 rwhp through the automatic. Drove the hell out of it for over a year with no issues at all. Plenty of fuel and a great tune :bigthumbsup

Now I'm all forged anyway but didn't do it because I blew up or anything, just wanted more power.
 

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Save your money on the Long Tubes and put it towards a forged block. Then you can freely upgrade later without the worry of kaboom..
Careful when comparing dyno numbers. 500 on one machine can be 400 on another. Your mustangdyno result could be way higher on a dynojet and you could be closer to the theoretical limit than you think.

I know more folk that have kaboomed fully built motor than stockers (my car included). For the minority that are into heavy dragracing, a built motor is just an excuse to double the boost (or more), and then the car is right back on that jagged edge...lol.
 

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Instead of increasing boost, go with the long tubes and catted midpipe: this will reduce stress on the engine while still making more power.

:laughlitt
I believe this is an old wives tale. When you exceed the tensile strength of a part it bends or breaks (ie: rods). No matter how your making the power.
 

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I never heard that before...what's your source?

Every mustang forum has threads with Kooks and Pypes cats coming apart and clogging the exhaust. Some caught it in time while others blew the engine. Alot of people run without cats with a blower but that's not an option in emissions testing states.
 

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The April 2011 issues of Hot Rod actually had a great article about what breaks on the 05' to 11' Mustangs. Of course your results may vary but they suggested that 4.6Ls pushed beyond 450hp and sometimes as little as 400hp can start breaking. I'm of course not going to list what was said but the big issues seem to be connecting rods & piston detonation in regards to the engine. As far as the drive train goes the drive shaft itself seems to be a weak spot.

If you have a chance to look at the article it's an interesting read anyway.
 
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I never heard that before...what's your source?

Every mustang forum has threads with Kooks and Pypes cats coming apart and clogging the exhaust. Some caught it in time while others blew the engine. Alot of people run without cats with a blower but that's not an option in emissions testing states.
From the reading I've done, it's the ceramic cats (that most header companies use) that have the biggest problems. The metallic ones don't seem to have the same failure rate.

Here's a good thread w/pics WWW.S197FORUM.COM
 

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Kooks uses metallic cats too, just very poor quality.
 

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I believe this is an old wives tale. When you exceed the tensile strength of a part it bends or breaks (ie: rods). No matter how your making the power.
Absolutely. Boost is NOT what breaks an engine. It's the amount of TORQUE it makes.

Also, don't rev the crap out of it. I once read from a source backed up with math, that the force put onto the rods from 6,000 rpm to 6,600 rpm is over 40% higher.
 

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Absolutely. Boost is NOT what breaks an engine. It's the amount of TORQUE it makes.
stress is what breaks a motor, horsepower and torque or too high revving. doesnt matter the cause of the stress, whether boost or n/a or over revving, if you exceed the amount of stress the internals can handle, something will break.:winks
 

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stress is what breaks a motor, horsepower and torque or too high revving. doesnt matter the cause of the stress, whether boost or n/a or over revving, if you exceed the amount of stress the internals can handle, something will break.:winks
I posted a couple of articles on longtube headers. One of the important thing it had mentioned about horsepower gains from exhaust modifications aren't actually "gains", it's recovered power. And any time you recover power (post combustion) you're increasing efficiency. I believe the article mentioned that a 450 bhp engine can have up to 60 hp exhaust pumping losses. Longtube headers can reduce the pumping loss from 60 to 30 (roughly) So wouldnt this mean that longtube headers relieve stress (post combustion) roughly 50%

Not picking on you Gtnos just adding to your post
 

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stress is what breaks a motor, horsepower and torque or too high revving. doesnt matter the cause of the stress, whether boost or n/a or over revving, if you exceed the amount of stress the internals can handle, something will break.:winks
the confusion here has to do with where the stress is coming from

One of the basic drawbacks of a supercharger is that it takes power to run it. The engine has to produce this power, but it does not add to the rear wheel power that is pushing the car. I don't know the numbers but it is significant, like maybe 100 HP -- so the engine is putting 400 to the wheels, maybe 475 at the crank, but the internals are getting stressed by something like 575 to turn the blower in addition to turning the rear wheels.

On the other hand headers do not require any power from the engine to operate them. On the contrary they reduce the "loss" of the standard manifolds. So with the stock manifold the engine had to produce extra power to overcome the loss of the manifolds; with the headers this power goes to the rear wheels instead; so there is no increase of stress on the parts inside the engine. In the real world results vary, headers might not even add any significant gain, or they might actually make the engine flow more air which actually does increase the power being made inside the engine which does increase the stress on the internal parts.

Anyway, that is the source of this "wives tale" and it does have some roots in engineering fact -- basically when you use more boost to get more HP you increase the stress on the internals more than the increase of RWHP would suggest, because of the additional sacrificial load of running the blower; wherease other mods like headers do not have that additional sacrificial load.
 

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Pretty much summing it all up, the engine is a air pump. The easier that pump works the higher it's efficiency.

Like my dad says- "Every-time you start your car up, something is wearing out and getting ready to take money away from your pocket. Its not a hobby, but an addiction". :laugh:
 

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the confusion here has to do with where the stress is coming from

One of the basic drawbacks of a supercharger is that it takes power to run it. The engine has to produce this power, but it does not add to the rear wheel power that is pushing the car. I don't know the numbers but it is significant, like maybe 100 HP -- so the engine is putting 400 to the wheels, maybe 475 at the crank, but the internals are getting stressed by something like 575 to turn the blower in addition to turning the rear wheels.

On the other hand headers do not require any power from the engine to operate them. On the contrary they reduce the "loss" of the standard manifolds. So with the stock manifold the engine had to produce extra power to overcome the loss of the manifolds; with the headers this power goes to the rear wheels instead; so there is no increase of stress on the parts inside the engine. In the real world results vary, headers might not even add any significant gain, or they might actually make the engine flow more air which actually does increase the power being made inside the engine which does increase the stress on the internal parts.

Anyway, that is the source of this "wives tale" and it does have some roots in engineering fact -- basically when you use more boost to get more HP you increase the stress on the internals more than the increase of RWHP would suggest, because of the additional sacrificial load of running the blower; wherease other mods like headers do not have that additional sacrificial load.
Plus freakin' 1. :bigthumbsup

I had always wondered if the power used to turn the s/c was extra stress. If it is, why can't people run 550-600 rwhp on nitrous without blowing their engines? :headscratch:

Anyway, I would bet that you're looking at closer to 150hp to turn a kb or whipple (or tvs), and 75 or so to turn the M90.
 
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