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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

Anybody know how much fuel our pumps can pump? I've been told allot and was hoping to use a Boost-A-Pump...

Was reading the Vortech install article in the latest MMFF and started to worry about my fuel supply system...
 

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I dunno how much our fuel pumps can pump, but I do know how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood.:smoke:
 

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I am running a procharger kit and had fuel pressure issues in the high RPM range. The pump was maxed @ 5 volts. Mike @ PowerHouse addressed this for my ride by upgrading the wiring and installing a BAP. There is a post over in MD forum about it ("05 and up fuel pump (returnless)").

Mike stated:
"The stock pump is basically a focus pump. The stock pump will go effortlessly to ~385rwhp, with upgraded wiring you will be okay to about ~440rwhp, Add the BAP or comparible Voltage driver and you will be able to exceed 480RWHP."
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yea.. I'll play it safe and go with the twin pump set up (pretty much the same price as a BAP!)... I'll also add a MD fuel line upgrade and CPR fuel rails with a cross over... Hopefully the 39# injectors can deliver!?!
 

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kj_cinci said:
Hi,

Anybody know how much fuel our pumps can pump? I've been told allot and was hoping to use a Boost-A-Pump...

Was reading the Vortech install article in the latest MMFF and started to worry about my fuel supply system...
Hi KJ,

The Boost-A-Pump is the only way to go Period.
Here is a link to the Kennebell technical paper explaining the Boost-A-Pump theory of operation. It makes perfect sense. The long and short of it you're trying to maintain a 39psi fuel pressure differential at all times. That is the only way to get accurate fuel flow because all fuel calculations are based on fuel being delivered at a fixed pressure differential. The variable in the equation is that the manifold pressure keeps changing.

This is why I'll be going with KenneBell when I go blown in a year or 2 from now.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
thump_rrr said:
Hi KJ,

The Boost-A-Pump is the only way to go Period.
Here is a link to the Kennebell technical paper explaining the Boost-A-Pump theory of operation. It makes perfect sense. The long and short of it you're trying to maintain a 39psi fuel pressure differential at all times. That is the only way to get accurate fuel flow because all fuel calculations are based on fuel being delivered at a fixed pressure differential. The variable in the equation is that the manifold pressure keeps changing.

This is why I'll be going with KenneBell when I go blown in a year or 2 from now.
You're RIGHT! Me too did some more research and that is the only way to get a constantly good preassure! With pumps and FMUs you get no reliability!

That was a cool write up from them, very interesting!

And thanks for looking out for me!! :worship
 

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Kenne Bell BP is the Best way to go.

I have the High Output Vortech and I am currently running 12-14 pounds of boost. The kit came with an upgraded fuel pump and I had a lot of problems with it. I ended up going back to the stock focus fuel pump and added the Kenne Bell Boost-a-pump and upgraded the stock wiring. I set the keene bell to deliver heavy load at 9 pounds and I have had near perfect results.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Mark,

Welcome to our site! That's a beautiful set up you have!

Have you dynoed it? With the T-trim I'm guessing you have a built bottom end? Or are you taking your chances?

It looks in the pic like you still have the stock fuel rails and crossover...?? I have been told that is the bottle neck on the way to the injectors...??

MD ( www.modulardepot.com ) have a VERY popular fuel upgrade system that they have been putting in swooped up Cobras for a while. It's almost famous, LOL! Now they're developing/making one for my car they'll be selling soon. It inkludes the BAP and wiring but also fuel lines and CPR fuel rails probably with a custom cross-over... Should be super nice! (Tuned by Ken I think I cannot go wrong...!!)

Edit; Here is a direct link to the Cobra fuel line parts http://www.modulardepot.com/product_info.php?products_id=218 which is what I would get next if I were you... I think the rails in the picture are the actual 05 Mustang CPR rails! :happyhapp Also ask about a custom tune and you'll be set! :smoke:
 
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thump_rrr said:
Hi KJ,

The Boost-A-Pump is the only way to go Period.
Here is a link to the Kennebell technical paper explaining the Boost-A-Pump theory of operation. It makes perfect sense. The long and short of it you're trying to maintain a 39psi fuel pressure differential at all times. That is the only way to get accurate fuel flow because all fuel calculations are based on fuel being delivered at a fixed pressure differential. The variable in the equation is that the manifold pressure keeps changing.

This is why I'll be going with KenneBell when I go blown in a year or 2 from now.
I've been waiting for KB to finally put out the 2005 product and it is now installed in a few test mules and I hear it is a sweet reliable system.
Here is a test mule turning a 11.31 ET on 2.4KB @ 11psi boost (stock motor, LCA's, LT headers, Hoosier drag radials on stock 17" Bullitts, cntrfrc clutch, 472rwhp) with bad launching.

http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~jl458/2005_GT_Stang.wmv

I would want about 450rwhp/ 9psi or less on my stock motor and be very content.

KB 2.4L (The same exact unit as the 03-04 Cobra Competition Model)
Intercooled
Cold Air Intake
Mass Air Meter
Handheld Tuner- Still unsure which one will be available with the kit.
Injectors
Boost-A-Pump

The Current MSRP Price is $5499.

I feel it will be a very good product and the other S/C suppliers are still having many issues out there and until I see reliability, I am waiting.
 

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R3dF1r3 said:
I've been waiting for KB to finally put out the 2005 product and it is now installed in a few test mules and I hear it is a sweet reliable system.
Here is a test mule turning a 11.31 ET on 2.4KB @ 11psi boost (stock motor, LCA's, LT headers, Hoosier drag radials on stock 17" Bullitts, cntrfrc clutch, 472rwhp) with bad launching.

http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~jl458/2005_GT_Stang.wmv

I would want about 450rwhp/ 9psi or less on my stock motor and be very content.

KB 2.4L (The same exact unit as the 03-04 Cobra Competition Model)
Intercooled
Cold Air Intake
Mass Air Meter
Handheld Tuner- Still unsure which one will be available with the kit.
Injectors
Boost-A-Pump

The Current MSRP Price is $5499.

I feel it will be a very good product and the other S/C suppliers are still having many issues out there and until I see reliability, I am waiting.
I just got a "heart on"

Unfortunately it won't be reliable for too long with those darned hyperpathetic pistons and cracked into pieces connecting rods.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yup Yup!

Champion Ford here in greater Cinci has a motor with a snapped rod. Boss 330 down in Florida hav a BUNCH (I think 7!!!) busted, used to be blown S197 motors! Don't know how many VT, MP etc. have lined up for rebuilds!

One word of advice, if you're gonna blow it, first build it!

You might have a chance with the under 5 PSI, under 400 HP versions, or a uncooled centrifugal unit 'stock' boost will go easier on the block... seems that 400 RWHP line was a good guess for the short block!

A good shortblock is about $4K so just think 10K for the SC upgrade...!!:eyebulge:
 
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kj_cinci said:
Yup Yup!

Champion Ford here in greater Cinci has a motor with a snapped rod. Boss 330 down in Florida hav a BUNCH (I think 7!!!) busted, used to be blown S197 motors! Don't know how many VT, MP etc. have lined up for rebuilds!

One word of advice, if you're gonna blow it, first build it!

You might have a chance with the under 5 PSI, under 400 HP versions, or a uncooled centrifugal unit 'stock' boost will go easier on the block... seems that 400 RWHP line was a good guess for the short block!

A good shortblock is about $4K so just think 10K for the SC upgrade...!!:eyebulge:
Which is why I am in no hurry to S/C mine. I don't race so the existing ~315 ponies rw are fun for now. I think alot of kits have tune, BAP, MAF, lean, belt slippage, and detonation issues atm. I hear even a Saleen OE tune has a 5800rpm limiter due to running out of fuel issues.
The Vortech test mule has stock block with 500rwhp but, it may be the exception and not the norm, dunno.
Sounds like the KB unit is running pretty well though.
I agree, a forged internals is the correct way to go.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I got mine in July and it has been in the box ever since! I had to get it then as it's a demo/test/tune unit and the price was right... :rolleyes:

We will upgrade my fuel system for more power than we think we can make, why take a chance?!? The built motor will also be plenty strong, same idea why take a chance while you're doing it... do it properly the first time!

The Vortech test mule engine is not beeing stressed under load, dyno runs, the full mile etc. is pretty easy on it... Put some big ol' stickies on there and rip it of the line a couple of times... :happyhapp

Yea, the way to go is:
A built forged shortblock (or you will the second time around, hopefully you won't have an accident or get scrapp in, and ruin, your blower.)
BAP with upgraded wiring and lines to a AM fuel rail and injector size after boost...
 

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Interesting Posts. Hear is the fuel system I'm planning on going with:
-Dual SVT Focus variable speed pumps flowing up to 190 LPH (stock 110 LPH) Capable of maintaining constant PSI
-CPR High Flow Rails with Stainless Braided line + adapter for Pressure Gauge/NOS (already installed)
-42#HR Injectors

This is based on the formula:

Engine HP = Injector Size x Injectors x 0.8
-----------------------------------------
BSFC (between 0.4-0.6 normally, .55 approx for SC)

So...

39# x 8 injectors x 0.8 = 249.6
----------------------------- = 453.8 HP
0.55

What does this mean? The max 39# injectors can handle safely with a BSFC of 0.55 without dropping the A/F ratio is approx. 453HP PROVIDED that there are no other restrictions in the fuel system ie) your rails or pump. So if your planning on some serious HP, go with 42# or higher. 42# is good for 488.7 - 537.6 depending on your BSFC 0.55 for 488.7 - 0.50 for 537.6 ( use a dyno to find out what it is) but .55 is a safe estimate for S/C.
BSFC = Brake Specific Fuel Consuption
These are calculations for crank HP.

The reverse calculation is possible for getting a desired injector size

Engine HP x BSFC
----------------- = #/HR of injectors needed
#Injectors x 0.8
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Why the dual pump set up over the BAP unit?

I'm going with 60 lb injectors... :thumbsup
 

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I went with the BAP, installed the dial adjustment box in the center console right by the N20 arming switch....so its hidden. I will just dial it up the same time I arm the n20 system. Everything else is right by the stock pump under the rear seat...took like 30 minutes to install. I also closed the loop to the vacum switch so it will be running full time. With the dial adjustment, I can just have it on 0 when driving back and forth to work.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
psfracer said:
I went with the BAP, installed the dial adjustment box in the center console right by the N20 arming switch....so its hidden. I will just dial it up the same time I arm the n20 system. Everything else is right by the stock pump under the rear seat...took like 30 minutes to install. I also closed the loop to the vacum switch so it will be running full time. With the dial adjustment, I can just have it on 0 when driving back and forth to work.
I thought the BAP was an automated system hooked to your tune?

Maybe it's differant with the NOS?

What's that power cord you have from your box?

???????????????????
 

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kj_cinci said:
I thought the BAP was an automated system hooked to your tune?

Maybe it's differant with the NOS?

What's that power cord you have from your box?

???????????????????
The power cord is the arming switch for the zex nitrous kit I have. Once armed, all I have to do is floor it and its on, because the Zex system goes off of the TPS. Went with this instead of the toggle because I like it hidden. The cord coming from the dial adjustment box goes back to the Boost A Pump. The Boost A Pump is bascially just wired in series with the + wire to the stock pump, a ground, and a vacum activation switch (NA or Nitrous). KB makes another kit which uses a boost switch for activation if your supercharged or have a turbo. I didn't put on the vacum switch because I would just rather have it on full time, since its adjustable anyway.
 

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Hmm. You guys got me thinking, read that article from Kenne Bell. For sure looking at the BAP now. Thanks guys!
 
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