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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Save your cash kiddies. Ford has many brilliant engineers at their disposal. If they could add a quick 'bolt-on' accessory (like a coil) to increase performance, don't you think they would do it?

It would only be pennies per mod considering the quanities they deal in. The stock voltage from a mustang coil is 38K-40K volts. All you have to do is ignite the damn fuel! If it ignites now @ 38K volts, 45K volts won't ignite it more. The reason racecars have high perfomance coils is for SUSTAINED high rpm's so the original coil doesn't break down. Don't believe everthing you read in an advertisment. Use common sense, if it's that easy, the factory would have done it.

Someone spent $200 on a set of wires and a coil & they think they have to justify it's faster.

The wires ARE nice looking, so if you're doing it for looks - good.

Doing it for performance - Not so good.
 

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have to agree, i bought the screamin demon coil/livewires(dumb me). saw no improvement whatsoever, even worse my fuel mileage dropped to 13mpg under normal cty driving. installed oem setup and went to 19mpg cty. rough lesson and money lost. money that i could have spent on a tbs and a electric s/c (sarc). hahaha. lolol.:heha:
 

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The stock voltage from a mustang coil is 38K-40K volts. All you have to do is ignite the damn fuel! If it ignites now @ 38K volts, 45K volts won't ignite it more. The reason racecars have high perfomance coils is for SUSTAINED high rpm's so the original coil doesn't break down. Don't believe everthing you read in an advertisment.
+1

Glad to see that some people understand how the electronics work.

"Hotter spark" sure sounds impressive in the ads, haha.

Maybe a little improvement from replacing worn original wires, but that's about it. And you get just as much gain from regular replacement cables vs. metal core.
 

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even worse my fuel mileage dropped to 13mpg under normal cty driving
Now that's pretty interesting. Were you running a really wide gap on the plugs?

Do you think it was the coil, the wires, or the plugs that caused the poor mileage?

Would be interesting to pinpoint the exact cause. Swap parts back and forth to zero in on the problem, y'know?
 

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i don't agree. i have the screamin demon coils, msd super conductor wires, and bosch fusion +4 plugs. i felt an increase in power. infact, i would say it felt kinda similar to the udp. i also had several other mods already done at this point aswell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
i don't agree. i have the screamin demon coils, msd super conductor wires, and bosch fusion +4 plugs. i felt an increase in power. infact, i would say it felt kinda similar to the udp. i also had several other mods already done at this point aswell.
OK. Glad your happy with your purchase.

Real Life Example:

Take a match and throw it into a gallon can of gasoline, it will go boom.

If you have an arc welder and use it's spark to ignite another gallon of gasoline, it's not going to be a bigger boom - same exact boom.

A specific amount of gasoline only has so much stored energy in it.
Same thing inside your cylinder.
Making a 'hotter' fire won't give more power... It's scientifically impossible.

The only way to get more power is to put more fuel in it.


Basic H.S science.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Key point is this:

Other than making an engine 'breathe' better, The only way to get more power is to put more fuel in it. Period.

It's otimized from the factory to operate at peak power and
efficiency
 

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you can say what you will. this was my my results. not too mention, if ford such a great job on these systems, why don't they have the plugs indexted from the factory? are they, no. and not too mention, with the aftermarket coils you get longer dwell time aswell which helps in a complete burn of the air/fuel. now i know that people have different opinions and experience with parts, but don't go acting like you know everything and when someone tells about there experience, don't treat them like a moron. that's just rude. i have just about every bolt-on they make, and i have had many people tell me the parts won't make a difference. i baught them anyway and found out for myself that most people do not know what they are talking about. they get their info from just hear-say and assume it's fact. ford did a good job, but they did leave room for improvement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
you can say what you will. this was my my results. not too mention, if ford such a great job on these systems, why don't they have the plugs indexted from the factory? are they, no. and not too mention, with the aftermarket coils you get longer dwell time aswell which helps in a complete burn of the air/fuel. now i know that people have different opinions and experience with parts, but don't go acting like you know everything and when someone tells about there experience, don't treat them like a moron. that's just rude. i have just about every bolt-on they make, and i have had many people tell me the parts won't make a difference. i baught them anyway and found out for myself that most people do not know what they are talking about. they get their info from just hear-say and assume it's fact. ford did a good job, but they did leave room for improvement.
Your right Ford did do a good job and there is room for some minor improvements.

I'm sorry if I made you feel like a moron, that was not my intent.

I assure you if the the stock coil didn't completely 'burn' air/fuel mixture - the car would never had passed emisions from the factory! Plus you'd would throw a Check Engine Light.

Sometimes people buy items for their cars 'hoping' they see or feel some performance gain & they have to justify it somehow in their head.

I urge you to refer back to my Basic H.S science lesson for proof AND if your car didn't burn all the fuel in the cylinder it wouldn't pass emisions!

Science doesn't lie.

Again, I'm glad you're happy with your purchase.
 

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Now that's pretty interesting. Were you running a really wide gap on the plugs?

Do you think it was the coil, the wires, or the plugs that caused the poor mileage?

Would be interesting to pinpoint the exact cause. Swap parts back and forth to zero in on the problem, y'know?
yes i wuz running .065 on the gap.
 

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the better ingnition system it only to make it easy for the fuel to ignight, the easier it is, less energy it takes to do, less engery spent on ingnition, more energry else where to build power, when you "throw a match into fire" how many of them matches does it take to get one light? as where an arc weld is a push of a trigger. its more physics and kinetic energy. also the cheaper plug give a little spark ignighting the presser and not all of it gets burned, bigger and hotter sparks have an increased chances of burning all of it, which is what you want. high school science has nothign to do with it. this is a bit more complicated when you get into compression as well, the characteristic of the fire respond differently. longalan2 has more bolt on and thats why he feels a differnce then some that has lmited or none, once you get to the point he is at you should look into it more as your engine will respond differently. thats why trucks use desiel, it burns the whole stroke of the cylinder which gives them more torque. you are out of your element with this thread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
WOW. I don't quite know how to de-cipher this

Science has 100% EVERYTHING to do with it.
Remember, you don't burn all the fuel - you fail emissions.

Diesel engines do not 'burn' their entire stroke

YOU, my friend are out of your element

Why don't you take one of those matches & a gallon of gasoline and try it and report back....

Some people just don't get it....
 

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Spark plugs usually require voltage of 12,000–25,000 volts or more to 'fire' properly, although it can go up to 45,000 volts. They supply higher current during the discharge process resulting in a hotter and longer-duration spark.As the current of electrons surges across the gap, it raises the temperature of the spark channel to 60,000 K. The intense heat in the spark channel causes the ionized gas to expand very quickly, like a small explosion. This is the "click" heard when observing a spark, similar to lightning and thunder.
The heat and pressure force the gases to react with each other, and at the end of the spark event there should be a small ball of fire in the spark gap as the gases burn on their own. The size of this fireball or kernel depends on the exact composition of the mixture between the electrodes and the level of combustion chamber turbulence at the time of the spark. A small kernel will make the engine run as though the ignition timing was retarded, and a large one as though the timing was advanced.

narrow-gap risk: spark might be too weak/small to ignite fuel;
narrow-gap benefit: plug always fires on each cycle;
wide-gap risk: plug might not fire, or miss at high speeds;
wide-gap benefit: spark is strong for a clean burn.

There is a reason for the madness, learn....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
WOW again.
First post: not one word spelled correctly
Second post: not one word mis-spelled

ONE MORE TIME:
IF YOUR STOCK COIL & WIRES DON'T IGNITE ALL THE FUEL - THE CAR WOULD FAIL EMISSIONS TESTING FROM THE FACTORY!
IT WILL ALSO THROW A CHECK ENGINE LIGHT!

PERIOD. END OF STORY.

What is there not to understand?
 

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ha, would fords use a part if it was better? or for increased performance? if it cost a penny more,not a chance. they didnt build these cars to be all they can be. the 2011`s are a different story as far as the engine goes. fords is tired of being the underdog in performance and have finally stepped up to the plate to compete for hp again, but this article didnt have much else good to say about the new ones, esp the verts.
Review: New Mustang can run with the big boys - MotorHead- msnbc.com

back on topic. the 4.0 doesnt have coils, there is "1 coil". i believe there is room for a more efficient and improved spark for more fuel, air and higher octanes. i swapped out my coil/wires at 50k. thats about all i expect from a set of wires anyway( ya, they might last 100k, so might shocks and struts but i change mine as routine maintenance)

i could tell a difference in performance first time i drove it. at that time, other than dual exhast it was stock too. i didnt loose any mpg, actually gained 1-2. it idled smoother and all round performance felt better in all rpm ranges. could have been either one or both of those items. i`m not talking night and day change. the factory coil ( not saying its not a ok part) was engineered to perform on a stock motor with factory air box and intake with 87 octane to pass emissions and not throw engine lights and thats all. that 200.00 ( that i dont feel bad about at all) was nothing. i`d rather spend the extra few bucks to go aftermarket than buy another set of oem wires. i`ll leave it at that.

ive been a ford guy for 38 yrs( when i got my first car). but, i`ll be the first to tell you they use the cheapest parts money can buy. it wasnt always that way, but now it is. thats why most of our car is cheap plastic. its so they can sell the car at a price some people can afford and make a profit. they set a standard( and guess what, its not that high of one) and bid the parts out to the cheapest bidder. doesnt matter if there are better parts out there. parts need to last 3 years or 36k miles. theres tons of room for improvement in ever area of our cars. thats why there are performance parts, for people who care :)

at the same time, some people really dont care, they just drive it, and thats perfectly cool too :D
 

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WOW again.
First post: not one word spelled correctly
Second post: not one word mis-spelled

ONE MORE TIME:
IF YOUR STOCK COIL & WIRES DON'T IGNITE ALL THE FUEL - THE CAR WOULD FAIL EMISSIONS TESTING FROM THE FACTORY!
IT WILL ALSO THROW A CHECK ENGINE LIGHT!

PERIOD. END OF STORY.

What is there not to understand?
aftermarket coil, wires and spark plugs are a good up grade for any mild to high modified engine. it doesn't matter what your highschool teacher told you in science class, you have nothing to prove it doesn't work. people on here that have them say noticed a difference in their car performance so.......... mmmmmmmm worth a shot and its a cheap experiment that might pay off in the end. if you tired it and it didn't work for you, doesn't mean its 100% crap. ask for help, not bash it in a troll, go some where else for that or provide something useful.
 

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the 4.0 doesnt have coils, there is "1 coil".
Mmm … not quite accurate. The “coil pack” on the 4.0 actually has three transformers in it. See attached diagram.

The stock ignition system is pretty decent on these vehicles, with a primary firing voltage of 450 volts and a coil turns ratio measured to be 88:1. Multi-spark firing is also used below 1,000 RPM. Combustion within a given cylinder has a statistical aspect to it, i.e. on one cycle peak pressure might reach 1200 PSI while on the next cycle it might only reach 900 PSI. The more consistent these pressures are from one firing cycle to the next the better the engine runs. High output ignitions help to narrow the statistical spread in these pressures to provide lower emissions, better mileage and performance. This is why manufacturers have steadily improved their ignition systems over the years. Is there still room for improvement in the system, definitely. Performance vs. cost is always a trade off in mass produced items. This being said though, I personally have not gone out and got the demon coil, feeling that the difference would be small on my stock engine (have changed the plug wires out though). In addition the OEM coils go through significant life cycle testing during development and are typically quite reliable. Some aftermarket equipment may not go through as much testing, as such the reliability remains an unknown.
 

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yes i wuz running .065 on the gap.
Okay, that makes sense.

Some of the Xcharger guys tried running wide gaps with SD coils and had high rpm misfires. They ended up closing back down the plug gaps.
 

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i swapped out my coil/wires at 50k. thats about all i expect from a set of wires anyway( ya, they might last 100k, so might shocks and struts but i change mine as routine maintenance)

i could tell a difference in performance first time i drove it. at that time, other than dual exhast it was stock too. i didnt loose any mpg, actually gained 1-2. it idled smoother and all round performance felt better in all rpm ranges. could have been either one or both of those items. i`m not talking night and day change.
You'll definately notice a difference just replacing wires at 50k. Plugs too. Or at least check/regap your plugs every 6-8k miles. Also platinum wire plugs don't work well on our wasted spark type ignitions. Plugs on one bank will have more erosion on the center electrodes.

It's good to replace oem style wires about every 25-30k miles or 2 years due to deterioration.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I would 100% agree with Mr. Ugly, that you may notice a little by replacing worn components, either with stock of aftermarket.

Twist140: I would not include mildly modified, only highly modified, which on this site most people don't have. The reason circle track racers use them is to prevent the coil from breaking down at consistant high RPMs. Most of us are not running our cars like this.

Again, science has everthing to do with it. A pint of gasoline only has a certain amount of engery stored in it. Hitting it with a 'hotter' spark isn't going to give a bigger bang!

It sounds like you would agree with this statement: If you would have a 1.5v flashlight battery and two bulbs, one 1watt bulb & one 40watt bulb. That the 40w would be brighter. Not with one battery, not even a little bit, It probably would even glow because the battery only has so much energy stored in it, just like a pint of gasoline only has so much energy.

amustangrocks: Our cars are made of cheap plastic for safety reasons. It's a hell of alot easier on the body to hit plastic than metal in a crash.

Ford has a multi-million dollar Research & Development budget
If Ford sells 200,000 Mustangs a year a one penny increase in a part would equate to $2000 investment over the entire model for one model year. Now divide that over the entire product line.

It is a balancing act of cost vs benefit. They use this cost / benefit analysis everyday in business

With Ford's budget they certainly would have to spend a penny more to get an edge up on the competition. If not, they would be using 1960's technology.

Here's how it really works in business:
1) Ford designs something with certain specifications, say a coil.
2) Ford knows what it costs to manufacture most components
3) It contacts 3rd party vendors to give a bid
4) Parts must meet or exceed Fords specifications to be considered.
5) 3rd party submits bid. Ford counters with what they will pay.
6) 3rd party accepts or declines
 
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