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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,

I've got my tranny that I pulled from a 1967 coupe (289) in the shop and they just tore it open. The casing number he gave me was C4AR-7006-A and the make is RUG. It has a 10 bolt pattern with a cast iron case. From what I can gather it's a Ford 4 speed top loader made in 1964. Anyone have any better ideas? Is it worth rebuilding? From what I've read, the t-4 tranny made by Ford was a great transmission that is worth a pretty penny. If that's the case I'm going to get it rebuilt. They want $1500 to do a total rebuild, needs new input shaft, 2nd and 3rd gear, and 1/2 and 3/4 sliders as well as the bearing kit. I can pick up a brand new t-4 for 2 grand plus shipping, so I figure this is a good deal, especially if it's a Ford t-4 that is supposedly so rare.

Thoughts?

And yes I've thought about a t5 conversion, but that is probably out of my price range.
 

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Not to sure about the numbers you are indicating. if the main case is in fact a C4AR, then its a C4AR-7003-A which is the narrow 4-hole case and were mostly "HEH" series not "RUG".

The RUG's were used in the '67 but they used a C5AR-7006-D main case which became the most (and still) popular 8-hole type main case.

Although the 8-hole is most common, there are still a lot of 4-hole cases out there that go for less money. Not to many people want them because they wont bolt up to as many bellhousings as the 8-hole.

Nothing rare about any of them. Most sought after are the close ratio but you can convert a wide ratio to a close ratio.

$1,500 seems awful expensive even though it needs a new input shaft and 3rd / 4th gear. I suggest you call mark hammond at Toploader heaven and talk to him before you spend any more money. Not saying your mechanic is cheating you, but I rebuild toploaders myself every now and then to make some "candy money" and the price you were quoted seems high.

I replace ALL bearings, seals, gaskets, blocker rings, e-rings, O-rings, snap rings, cluster gear shaft and needle bearings, shift fork set-screws, tail shaft sleeve bearing, syncro dogs /keeper rings, and magnetic plug. Plus I media blast and power wash the main case, tail shaft housing, input shaft housing, and paint them cast gray.

All basic rebuilds should replace the above mentioned items

All this for $700. all other parts like unput shaft, 3rd, and 4th gear are additional (about $350)

I'm not advertising, just making a point of reference.

Call mark and get his opinion. He's one of the best when it comes to toploaders
 

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Already having a manual transmission makes swapping to a T5 significantly cheaper. i'd look into it more if you plan on driving the car any distance, that overdrive will be nice on the highway
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Already having a manual transmission makes swapping to a T5 significantly cheaper. i'd look into it more if you plan on driving the car any distance, that overdrive will be nice on the highway
I'm actually starting to seriously consider it. I'm almost positive that I have a 1964 fairlane t-4. I'm not certain, I have to go check some numbers on the tranny tomorrow, but if that's the case I don't think I really want to keep a fairlane tranny in my mustang. That's just weird. Unless anyway can think of a reason why it wouldn't hurt. I mean for $1400 I could keep the fairlane and be done with it. It seemed to work perfectly fine when I had the car running. I got it up to 85mpg without a problem. I'm probably going to be looking at a hundred bucks or so just for having them tear into it.

The car is going to be a daily driver mostly. I might take it on a few short road trips, but I don't know that it would be overly comfortable and I'm hesitant if something were to break. It'll have a rebuilt engine and new steering linkage. The rear end was replaced about 5 years ago. So maybe it would do just fine at 75 on the interstate with a t5 and I'm just being paranoid? I'm going to start a new thread on a t-5 conversion because I can't find jack on a manual t-4 to t-5 conversion. Everything I read is auto 4 to t-5.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ok so I actually went into the tranny shop today and personally manhandled my machine. The guy working on it was great. He hadn't really taken a look at it in depth yet because he really wasn't caring WHAT type of transmission it was. All he had told the front desk guy was what needed fixed to make it work. The front desk guy didn't know what he was talking about. After discussing with the actual mechanic, he totally understood what I was looking for and helped me out.

So here's the numbers. I'd really appreciate any input.

Main Case: HEH A 0104 45
Tail Case: C4DR - 7A040A
Casting number: C4AR-7003-A

1st gear: 32 teeth
2nd: 31
3rd: 25
4th: 23
25 spline shaft
pilot tip 0.670 diameter
8 7/8" input shaft with 23 teeth

From that I've deduced it is a 1964 main case from a 260 mustang with a 1967 289 tail case and a wide gear ratio. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Thoughts on whether this is worth the rebuild? I initially was concerned with it not being a 1967 8 bolt pattern transmission, and it is not. It is a 4 bolt pattern 1964 transmission. However it has the 1967 tail on it and the wide ratio so I'm wondering what the difference really is. It's still the same gear ratio as a 1967. It just lacks the 8 bolt pattern. Right?
 

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The tail shaft was used on 64 - 73 mustangs, cougars and is quite common or standard. Its not specific to just the 67.

There is nothing worng with your Toploader except it is the narrow 4-hole mount case and with the information you mentioned above, the main shaft is a 25 spline and not a 28 spline. (your input shaft is a common 1-1/16 dia input shaft)

All of those components mention are period correct for a 65 mustang with a 260 or 289.

If you rebuild it, (properly) you will have a very strong transmission. I would prefer replacing the main shaft with a 28 spline versus a 25 spline but that would require you to also change your drive shaft yoke as well. BUT your toploader is a very stout transmission.

Which way you go, is upto you. If you will be driving a lot of highway miles, then consider the T5. They are nice. If not, then stay with your old school toploader. The toploader is one of the toughest transmission every built. In the end, its what best suits you. You wont be throwing money away either way unless you rebuild the toploader and try to sell it. You'll loose your shirt

The only downside to your toploader is the main case. Nothing worng with it, its just not as flexible for other ford applications due to the 4-hole pattern. The internals are the same for all wide ratio toploaders.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thought I'd give an update on this tranny rebuild. It's been awhile! This project has dragged on a lot longer than originally planned. I just finished painting and getting my tranny all put back together after the shop did all the internal work. I think I made a good choice in rebuilding this tranny rather than going with a t5. I'll be happier with the 4 speed. I also wish I could have gone with a 28 spline output shaft, but my output shaft didn't need replaced and I just couldn't justify the cost of replacing it and then getting a new slip yoke. Perhaps in a few years. Thanks for all your input! Pics for enjoyment!
 

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