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Hello All!
so I found this related thread (which was super helpful, but then lead me to the following concern)
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/classic-tech/216913-engine-block-code-mustang.html

I'm looking at buying (on craigslist) a '1965 Mustang Coupe, with Matching V8, original body, disc brakes, A/C'

they provided the VIN (warranty number) in the ad as:
5F07A373341

as well as a picture of the Engine block casting, which reads:
6 J 1 2
C5AE-6015E

Now, from what I've learned on decoding all of this, the VIN tells me:

5-1965
F- Dearborn, MI
07 - 2Dr hardtop
A - 289 4v V8
373341 - Unit 373341 (not sure what the rest means?)

And the Engine Cast (C5AE-6015E) means
C - 1960s
5 - 1965
A - Full sized Ford
E - Engine (AE galaxy engine used on several models)
6015 - Engine base assembly
E - 5th engineering version

My concern, is that the date stamp on The engine cast (6J12) :
6 - 1966
J - September
12 - 12

Is the Engine really matching if the VIN is for a 1965, but the engine block wasn't made until September of 1966?

hopefully all of that made sense..

thanks guys!

-Tuomas
 

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The engine assembly date is stamped on the engine block in front of the LH cylinder head. "Numbers Matching" does not apply to these Mustangs as there was no VIN on the engine.
 

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Hello Thomas,

Welcome to AFM.

That exact block casting number was used for 65, 66 & 67. With a date code of 6J12 that would have been a block for a 1967 car since they shut down in August to change years. As long as its the correct block number most wouldn't know or care that it was not the exact block that left the factory in that car. Even if the date was one in 1965 there is no way to prove that it was the exact block which came in your car from the factory. 'Numbers matching' is a fantasy for a non-HiPo, early Mustang.

The block could have been replaced by Ford under warranty. Would that somehow make it 'incorrect'? I don't think so. Show me a car that has never had a part of some kind replaced and I will show you a car that has not been driven.
 

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Now I am curious. So what you are saying, is that early Mustangs did not come out of factory as matching number cars. I know that my 67 has the original 289 in it. I bought it in 76 and am the third owner, the motor just turned over to 74K miles. The two previous owners were older lady's at the time. 9 months ago i just finished the restoration on it, everything but the front end, front disk kit and motor work. So when it comes time to go through the motor, it wouldn't or would be a big deal if I did a motor swap? since numbers matching is a myth on my car.

Thanx in advance
 

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Now I am curious. So what you are saying, is that early Mustangs did not come out of factory as matching number cars. I know that my 67 has the original 289 in it. I bought it in 76 and am the third owner, the motor just turned over to 74K miles. The two previous owners were older lady's at the time. 9 months ago i just finished the restoration on it, everything but the front end, front disk kit and motor work. So when it comes time to go through the motor, it wouldn't or would be a big deal if I did a motor swap? since numbers matching is a myth on my car.

Thanx in advance
Hello. :) The point that Ivy is trying to make is that there is no way to actually establish that the motor that currently sits under the hood of your car, or any non=hipo Mustang, is the same motor that it left the factory with. When you say " I know that my 67 has the original 289 in it." what you mean is "I am convinced that my 67 has the original 289 in it." Even if you had bought the car brand new, and did indeed know that it still had the original motor, there is no way to cause someone else to know that. You could tell people that, demonstrate that you are the original owner, etc.... and then they might or might not be convinced by this, but you would not be able to prove conclusively that it was the original motor. :)
 

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Hopefully Veronica's accurate interpretation helped clarify my earlier words.

The two previous owners were older lady's at the time.
More than likely those ladies weren't that old when they FIRST owned your Mustang. :) Middle aged housewives were a major market for these cars when new. Read the period advertisements from Ford and that becomes very clear.

9 months ago i just finished the restoration on it, everything but the front end, front disk kit and motor work.
By installing disk brakes on what I assume was a non-disk car from the factory you would eliminate the possibility of a 'numbers matching' car even if numbers matching was possible. That is unless you think that only certain numbers need to match. There are some foreign cars for which everything in the car is numbered including things like the seat frames. Fords never came close to that.

So when it comes time to go through the motor, it wouldn't or would be a big deal if I did a motor swap?
That would depend greatly upon what you use for a swap. If its an EFI 5.0 engine then, yes, you no longer have an original Mustang. That's a little bit different than if you were to do a swap for a '65 289 that looked exactly like what would have been in your car from the factory. What you have may already be one of those?

When we bought our '66 GT in 1982 it had a 302 from a mid-70s Econoline van. There was no way I could prove it was from a van except the guy who did the swap told me that is where he got the engine (since vans in CA at the time didn't require as much emission equipment). The first thing I did was to locate and buy a parts car with a correct 289 in it so that I could have a 'correct' engine in the GT. Every part on that car is now the correct one for the date it was built even though some of the parts aren't dated correctly. That includes the '67-style valve covers used on late '66 engines. Those who are more fanatic go to the trouble of finding all the parts WITH the correct date codes which is as close as it gets for a non-HiPo early Mustang.

We also have a '66 coupe which I know is original since I bought it from the original owner AND her husband worked in the same office that I did. He drove a pickup; she had a new Mustang. Can I prove that coupe is all original? No, but I can supply a lot of first-hand information that indicates its original including the little green book with entries for every time it was filled with gas. And no one can prove that it ISN'T original. Even its 1967 distributor is 'original' in a sense because it was installed on that engine by the local Ford dealer under warranty.

The myth comes from the people who don't understand how Fords were numbered. Having a correct engine is still a desirable thing to a lot of people, myself included. That doesn't mean it could ever be 'numbers matching' since that wasn't how Ford did it.
 

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Veronica And Ivy, thank you very much for the insight, and information. I have much more clarity now.
 
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