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Has anyone had any experience with this system? Is performance worth the cost?
 

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I have this system with the optional ram air kit, more then happy with it performance wise, looks great too, cleans the engine bay up, especially with the billet coolant overflow tank i put in.
 

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I assume that it required a reflash of the tune. Did you have a custome tune done, and what tuner did you use?
 

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It is actually one of the few intakes that does not REQUIRE a tune. However it will benefit from one, and I did get one done, they use a Diablosport Predator. Here is their website with all the info you need, I would recommend contacting them, they have been super helpful with all my questions. www.wmsracing.com/wmsweb/05hvi.htm
 

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Have you dynoed it yet? I got 25 hp out of my C&L and preditor, so it would be interesting to see what that one will get. I had a similar setup in my corvette, went thru the front licence plate, got more power but only when doing 60+, used the forced cold air to make power
 

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I haven't been able to get it on the dyno yet. The shop I'm dealing with just got their new dyno setup, so when I get back in town from work I'm headed straight there. I'll let you know how it pulls. That'll be in 3 weeks. Retarded 5 week hitches. =(
 

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I have had work done in the past by WMS. They modded my 95GT. Going to have them do same to my 05 GT this spring. Soon as the weather starts to get better here I will order the CAI from them. Top notch out fit, and know their stuff! Recommend!
 

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Where does the air enter the system? I looked at the pictures of the ram-air kit that they sell with the intake, but I can't tell how it works. Is it just pulling through the grill?
 

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It just comes between the space between the hood and and the grille. It isn't a huge amount of air flow, but it is enough to lower the air intake temps a good 30-50 degrees. It works more as an air-re-direction/heat shield.
 

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s19706 said:
It just comes between the space between the hood and and the grille. It isn't a huge amount of air flow, but it is enough to lower the air intake temps a good 30-50 degrees. It works more as an air-re-direction/heat shield.
has anyone documented/measured temp info on these? I cant help but be kinda skeptical...the factory airbox sucks thru the front fenderwell, and I just really cant picture any temp difference...most kits Ive seen the gasketing looked kinda iffy regarding how 'sealed' it would be to the hood(does it rub thru the hood insulation?
Maybe at zero mph if car sits for a bit it might warm up a bit, but without air coming thru the grille, I think the CAI box would be similar- but it seems to me within a second of moving, that would blow off too...I might take my remote thermometer off the garage and drop it in the airbox next time I go for a drive. just to compare airbox/ambient, I'm just guessing at 10 mph it will be same temp.... I cant help but think the bigger tube and tune(mostly the tune) makes the lions share of the power difference. I mentioned in another thread, theres one aftermarket CAI that seems to take a right turn at the throttle body, and it seems to me that air rushing thru at an angle would be a restriction...a couple others look good though. thinking about some hopup stuff, but like I said- always a skeptic...thinking a tune alone, possibly bigger inlet tube to stock weatherproof airbox might be justifiable in my mind, unless the CAI 'box' and filter really adds a temp difference.
 

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one other thing- dyno tuning a ram intake without 'airspeed' giving true speed dependant 'boost'...can it be done, or is there a chance the car could actually lean out off the dyno at high speed real world driving...Ive asked this several times on various forums, no one ever commented. I often wonder same thing on CAI kits, as reports of hood shake at speed lead me to believe underhood pressure in general is high at speed (perhaps why ford sucks air thru fenderwell?)

any comments?
 

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Good questions Ford4v429... I like the way you think. I tend towards skepticism too! Some of your questions are answered if you follow the link in the 4th post. WMS did actually measure the significant temperature differences as well as test the car's 50 to 100mph time with stock and with the WMS intake... a 1.31 second difference. I'm not sure there is a way to measure HP and TQ while driving on the road. Here's an excerpt from WMS's test:

"August 29, 2005. We tested the complete High Velocity System with Ram Air Box in a car on the road today. This test was to measure the effects of the air intake system with ram air while driving, since this cannot be tested on a chassis dyno. Our test car was a completly stock 05 Mustang GT. The test consisted of accelerating the car from 50 to 100mph in 3rd gear (roughly 3000 to 5850 rpm) while logging the data using a Diablo Predator. Our standard 80mm mass air sensor was used and there were no changes to the program in the car. The outside air temperature during the test was 67° and altitude was 3800ft. Here are the results."

Stock IntakeWMS IntakeGains from WMS Intake
50 - 100mph: 12.34 seconds
50 - 100mph: 11.03 seconds
Intake Air Temp @ 50mph: 104°
Intake Air Temp @ 50mph: 68°
Intake Air Temp @ 100mph: 84°
Intake Air Temp @ 100mph: 66°
MAF voltage @ 100mph: 4.2V
MAF voltage @ 100mph: 4.3V

"The test shows a significant increase in power as the car accelerates from 50 - 100mph 1.3 seconds faster than stock. The increase in power needed to do this is of much debate and calculation, basic physics says about 10% but we won't try to quantify beyond that. The ram air clearly delivers a colder air intake charge to the engine, this drop in intake temperature alone will increase power (approximately 1hp for every 11° colder) because the engine is breathing denser air. You can also see the maf voltage increased by .1V so more air is flowing through the mass air meter."
 

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Hi Guys,

The beauty of a mass air flow EFI system is that once you characterize the MAF housing's flow any changes to air flow are automatically compensated for by the now calibrated air flow map. Look at it this way, once you know the air flow characteristics of the MAF housing, inlet pipe, throttle body and intake manifold anything you do in front of the MAF housing has will be adjusted for simply by the MAF sensor's flow numbers.

In the case of WMS' Ram Air system if they can change the pressure level in the intake tract by forcing more air past the MAF sensor they don't need to make any adjustments in the ECU's maps to correct for the changes presented to the MAF sensor. In this case Ram Air works because the ECU increases fuel to match the increased air flow, how the additional air flow is produced doesn't really matter.

WMS was smart in carefully selecting the size and position of the MAF sensor to get "stock like" flow characteristics so the stock ECU maps would work acceptably. This is not to say that there is not something to be found by going with a custom dyno tune as I'm sure there is power left on the table just as there is with the stock tunes with stock intake systems.

Here is an interesting bit. We used to get a new WS6 T-A every year for a couple of years until they discontinued the F-Body cars at GM. When Pontiac introduced the Ram-Air system with the then new LS1 powered TA's I laughed and said it was probably just more B.S. and fake scoops from GM's stylists or marketing people. So to prove this I tested the WS6 Ram-Air using one of the then "new" G-Tech measuring devices by running multiple passes from a dig both with and without the Ram-Air intake in the hood working. For the non Ram-Air passes I just removed the Ram-Air's plastic boxes and the crap traps and diverters and used a short piece of dryer duct held on with a zip tie this removed the air filter completly and pulled air from in front of the radiator, itself a higher pressure area.

Man was I ever wrong, the LS1 powered WS6 Ram-Air was good for almost 2/10's to 100MPH even breathing through the stock tortured Ram-Air path used to prevent too much debris from getting to the air filter element. I'd bet there's at least another 1/10, maybe MORE in the old WS6's Ram-Air system if you just made a straight air flow path and cleaned the filter a lot more often. The LS1 was being severly limited by the intake IMO, who know what else they left on the table with that engine? I don't know how much power those extra 2/10's equals on an F-body car but those F-Bodies are FAT, easily 350-400lbs. more than my S197 GT which is not a lightweight by any stretch of the imagination.

Anywho, an interesting test that woke me up and changed my opinion about Pontiac's Ram-Air IV(?), and CAI systems in general. That test made me a believer because I was forced to see that the intake on these cars could be tweaked to get better air flow and improve power with simple external changes. If it works on a GM you know it's going to work on a Ford if designed correctly.


Cheers


ford4v429 said:
one other thing- dyno tuning a ram intake without 'airspeed' giving true speed dependant 'boost'...can it be done, or is there a chance the car could actually lean out off the dyno at high speed real world driving...Ive asked this several times on various forums, no one ever commented. I often wonder same thing on CAI kits, as reports of hood shake at speed lead me to believe underhood pressure in general is high at speed (perhaps why ford sucks air thru fenderwell?)

any comments?
 

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good info guys! thanks.

I'd never even thought about the MAF sensor being forward in the duct(my old camaro it was right in front of TB) so yes duct shape/volume changes justify tune...and MAF self adjusts...gotcha :)

I'm still really suprised the underhood temp was that high in that test, but I wont argue- thankyou for posting that test data.

couple things that still kinda worry me:
will the coldair 'box' gasket rub/cut into underhood insulation, and do you really think it seals OK? the ramair sounds better to me- but does it have good water baffling inside(I'll drive in rain too, once salts gone).
lastly has anyone else noticed some cai tubes have that sharp turn on the near end of tb? is it even an issue?
 

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DownWithEyes said:
MAF voltage @ 100mph: 4.2V
MAF voltage @ 100mph: 4.3V

You can also see the maf voltage increased by .1V so more air is flowing through the mass air meter."
they shoulda used a better VOM here...was it 4.20->4.30, or 4.24->4.27 rounded by the meter...just had to toss that in :)

impressive gains to say the least at 50->100 for sure!
 

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Hi ford4v429,

I've watched the IAT valuses from the car's ECU on my Predator and the temp is usually only a couple of degrees warmer than the ambient air temp reading I get from my kids wireless weather station that I positioned with gaffer's tape on the hood while driving, don't ask. I didn't want to wreck it so I didn't stick the sensor box inside of the engine compartment yet but I'm going to find a way to protect it and try again to see the difference. I don't know how hih but I wouldn't want to be in there even on the freeway. The underhood temps are pretty high but the stock intake box pulls from the inner fender well only so the air temp is not nearly as high as under the hood.

I have a Steeda CAI kit installed and there is a nice big gasket on the stainless steel shield that completely seals the shield to the hood. The Steeda design is pretty good and only allows air to come from the inner fender well or the lower front grill intake area. I'm working on installing a 4" duct with a fabricated scoop to direct air directly to the CAI "box" to maximize the CAI's effectiveness but I don't think there will be more than a 10 degree difference at the most a this is all the difference I'm seeing at the MAF sensor anyway.


Cheers



ford4v429 said:
good info guys! thanks.

I'd never even thought about the MAF sensor being forward in the duct(my old camaro it was right in front of TB) so yes duct shape/volume changes justify tune...and MAF self adjusts...gotcha :)

I'm still really suprised the underhood temp was that high in that test, but I wont argue- thankyou for posting that test data.

couple things that still kinda worry me:
will the coldair 'box' gasket rub/cut into underhood insulation, and do you really think it seals OK? the ramair sounds better to me- but does it have good water baffling inside(I'll drive in rain too, once salts gone).
lastly has anyone else noticed some cai tubes have that sharp turn on the near end of tb? is it even an issue?
 

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SportsPix said:
Hi ford4v429,I've watched the IAT valuses from the car's ECU on my Predator and the temp is usually only a couple of degrees warmer than the ambient air tempCheers
hmm...getting more interesting. I got a couple 'remote thermometers for inside/outside temps, just for fun If I get a chance this weekend I'll throw one on to see what mine says...read temps inside the airbox, under the hood,and under the fenderwell just to see for sure what my car says compared to ambient at various mph.bigger ducting into fenderwell sounds like a good idea- stock looks kinda small. I kinda want to keep my rainproof airbox too if possible. thanks for the info
 

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The following is an excerpt from the book Holley Carburetors. Although this book is over 30 years old, the concepts are still valid and apply to EFI engines as well: "The forward motion of your car cannot be used to induce enough air pressure into the carburetor to provide any appreciable benefits. The idea of adding a mild form of supercharging at low cost is ....certainly an appealing one, but unless the vehicle is moving VERY fast the idea doesn't work out. Any apparent improvement thereby obtained is because the engine receives cold air-not from any 'supercharging' or 'ramming.' Ram air can provide minor HP increases at very high speeds: +1.2% at 100mph, 2.7% at 150mph....But...ramming to get this small power addition also creates problems...A cold air box should be designed without ram effect by allowing free flow of air out of the box feeding the carburetor..."
 

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ford4v429 said:
good info guys! thanks.


couple things that still kinda worry me:
will the coldair 'box' gasket rub/cut into underhood insulation, and do you really think it seals OK? the ramair sounds better to me- but does it have good water baffling inside(I'll drive in rain too, once salts gone).
lastly has anyone else noticed some cai tubes havehat sharp turn on the near end of tb? is it even an issue?
I haven't had any problems with insulation being cut, and as for the water issue, haven't had any, BUT, just to be sure, I got a custom waterproof pre-filter cover from www.outerwears.com.
 

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I love that Holley text! It's right on! We all have suction motors! It sucks as much as it needs and you cannot push more air in there! You can 'push' more oxygen in there by compressing the air... but you'd have to go very fast or spend a few $1Ks... :tongue

You can however keep the intake air as cool as posible to (again) hold more oxygen!

I think the WMS comes short... even with removing that one 90* turn the rest of us have and taking straight outside air. I have not seen one with the shields and what not but I do know that the 'clean' version have to deal with hot air and turbulence from the fan... I also know that it was difficult to tune so I would be a bit nervous with a canned tune, I'd like to KNOW my A/F at least!
 
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